Effects and Signs of successful Jing Replenishment

[Wells]

2 hours ago, Aeran said:

Have you read Damo Mitchell's books? He talks in depth about the relationship between jing/qi/shen, stabilizing the jing,

 

Seemingly rather replenishing jing and not just stabilizing it is the big secret and rare knowledge.

 

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increasing the efficiency of the jing > qi > shen conversion,

 

Well, as discussed above, exactly this is the dramatic misunderstanding of "inverting the course" in many popular taoist alchemy schools and which will not make you into an immortal but on the contrary, will possibly make you burn out even faster than a person who is not cultivating. If you "increase the efficiency of the jing > qi > shen conversion" then you will transform from a candle which burns at one end into a candle which burns at both ends. Your flame (chi) and its light (shen) will be twice as bright, but you also will burn out twice as fast. In the end, both sorts of candles will burn out anyway. The big secret in alchemy or taoist practice is how to add wax (jing) to the candle. This and only this is what can make a candle which never burns out and can make you into an immortal.

In other words: If Damo Mitchell is teaching how to increase the conversion rate of jing -> chi -> shen, then he possibly teaches how to burn out faster and therefore he possibly teaches the exact contrary way of becoming an immortal...like so many other public schools!

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[Orion]

I found 6 months to be optimal to retrain the jing --> qi --> shen pathway. There's something about holding off from ejaculation for that long which builds critical mass and causes the energy to overflow into the internal pathways. It's as if consciousness can't handle the lack of external release, so it becomes rewired to flow into the only remaining pathway available.

 

It's not so automatic... it does require effort, but once the pathway is formed there is just this default bliss that is always there.

 

For me the biggest challenge was sexual dreams, they were sabotaging. I had to get good at being mindful even in my dreams, which oddly enough translated to being mindful while awake. If I spurred sexual advances in my waking states, then it made it easier to do in my sleep. 

 

The general effects of jing conservation were... way, way more grounded. More vital. Ironically a lot more people were attracted to me and wanted to date me. People noticed my presence more, more eye contact with people just walking down the street. It's like the density of the jing creates a sort of gravity to your field that is hard to ignore -- for lack of a better way of putting it. I had a much stronger weiqi field. My kundalini practice was stronger, and my upper chakra contacts were significantly more empowered. Psychologically I felt way more stable, less easily influenced by outside disturbances.

 

I naturally don't ejaculate very often anymore. Maybe once a month or less, and it's not due to low libido. The tantric practices just... made me care less about doing it. In hindsight I was kind of addicted in my earlier years. It was a relief valve for so many issues in my life. Now that I've refined a lot of my emotional problems and I have other healthy outlets, ejaculation seems kind of pointless. I mean, you feel good for 10 seconds and then depleted and foggy for days. What's the point? It's like doing a bad drug.

[Wells]

Not ejaculating, no drugs, healthy eating, not getting drunk etc. possibly decreases the burning up of jing, but I don't think that you can replenish jing by not ejaculating.

Otherwise all kinds of ascetics and monks would not age and would become immortals automatically through their lifestyle.

Possibly not ejaculating saves jing / chi which would have been used up for rebuilding sperm cells and channels it into other areas like brain or immune system performance...and the other way around (therefore brain fog and feeling depleted after ejaculating)?

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[Mudfoot]

5 hours ago, Wells said:

In other words: If Damo Mitchell is teaching how to increase the conversion rate of jing -> chi -> shen, then he possibly teaches how to burn out faster and therefore he possibly teaches the exact contrary way of becoming an immortal...like so many other public schools!

Now that you write this,  there was a member of TDB (Michael something?) who wrote, maybe a year ago when there were WLP active posters here, that in his opinion the book White moon on the Mountain peak had left out the repleneshing cycle. 

If I recall right, he didn't go in to what he ment by that. Noone does in the classic TDB Nei Dan threads...... 

[Wells]

9 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

Now that you write this,  there was a member of TDB (Michael something?) who wrote, maybe a year ago when there were WLP active posters here, that in his opinion the book White moon on the Mountain peak had left out the repleneshing cycle. 

If I recall right, he didn't go in to what he ment by that. Noone does in the classic TDB Nei Dan threads...... 

 

Yes, here is the quote:

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42135-damo-mitchell/?page=2#comment-734939

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[Wells]

I just checked the chapter 4 of the book "Taoist Yoga", which is about "laying the foundation". As far as I understand, the descibed method activates generative force (sexual energy, seemingly one of the possible "postheaven" manifestations of jing), refines it, gathers it and stores it up again.

In any interpretation, this method just sets free one form of stored up energy, transform it into another, and then seemingly stores it up again, but in fact does not increase (replenish) the actual amount (sum) of stored up energy (essence, jing) and therefore can not repair the loss of stored up energy (jing, essence) that already happened over the course of one's life (through simply living, ejaculating etc.).

Maybe this is the explanation that the Wu Liu Pai members claim that the method of this book lacks a fundamental part and that the described method seems not to be able to produce immortals although a lot of people practice it.

According to the claims in the chapter of the book, you should already be an immortal superman who is unaffected by any weather, doesn't need to breathe etc. after "laying the foundation".

...which I assume would be true if you would successfully replenish the amount of stored up jing up to a level well beyond the level of stored up jing which you possessed at birth!

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[EmeraldHead]

Does emptiness of mind (advanced meditative stages of meditation) have something to do with this? I can't think of anything else that is present in a baby besides this. The resources that the parents give to the child are post-natal right? Like for example, I'm pretty sure in ejaculation the male projects post-natal chi.

[Wells]

30 minutes ago, Arramu said:

Does emptiness of mind (advanced meditative stages of meditation) have something to do with this?

 

Empty mind meditation slows down the consumption of jing by reducing mind activity, but I don't think that this in itself increases your jing storage.

 

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I can't think of anything else that is present in a baby besides this.

 

Well, somehow a storage of jing is build up during pregnancy inside the embryo.

 

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The resources that the parents give to the child are post-natal right?

 

As Taomeow pointed out in several threads, jing is considered to be pre-heaven / primordial anyway.

Some schools differentiate between "pre-heaven" jing and "post-heaven" jing.

A possible explanation is that they consider "post-heaven" jing manifestations like sperm, feelings of sexual lust etc., and as "pre-heaven" jing your "stock of vitality", which is in itself unmanifested.

Like the amount of money at your bank account, which is unmanifested as long as you don't manifest it in form of buying goods (manifestations of money).

Although, I personally would possibly rather consider any manifestation of jing either as chi or shen or as a combination of matter with chi and/or shen as "physical forms".

Therefore, there is no "postheaven" jing in my book.

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[EmeraldHead]

I still think that the highest levels and stages of meditation can do it somehow. Anapasanasati can generate new grey brain matter in normal people. Imagine what it could do in an advanced cultivator. Also if someone has enough chi to survive without food for a long time, then probably does not consume much food. So jing should be really go down in those cases. Maybe some form of vippasana, which would embody you a lot more into the body, like constantly sharing your Yi with all the cells.

Where would the body even get all the resources it needs such as mnerals and vitamins? Some people say the body actually does quite a lot of alchemy naturally; theres even a pdf on the internet with supposed research on the intake of food in chickens who laid eggs and resulted in that they must have transmuted the minerals/elements as there was more coming out than going in.

Are there any figures we know of, at least in legend/'myth', who have achieved this? Maybe we can look at what they do.

[Wells]

32 minutes ago, Arramu said:

I still think that the highest levels and stages of meditation can do it somehow.

 

The masters practicing "the highest levels and stages of meditation" should be able to regain their youth then.

I personally assume that replenishing jing is rather done with an extremely basic and simple form of training, but has nothing to do with gathering chi in the tantien.

 

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Anapasanasati can generate new grey brain matter in normal people. Imagine what it could do in an advanced cultivator. Also if someone has enough chi to survive without food for a long time, then probably does not consume much food. So jing should be really go down in those cases. Maybe some form of vippasana, which would embody you a lot more into the body, like constantly sharing your Yi with all the cells.

Where would the body even get all the resources it needs such as mnerals and vitamins? Some people say the body actually does quite a lot of alchemy naturally; theres even a pdf on the internet with supposed research on the intake of food in chickens who laid eggs and resulted in that they must have transmuted the minerals/elements as there was more coming out than going in.

 

Fasting and low calorie diet decrease metabolic activity and aging but don't stop or reverse aging back to everlasting youth, therefore decrease the need for vitamins and minerals and decrease the burning up of jing but don't replenish it.

 

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Are there any figures we know of, at least in legend/'myth', who have achieved this? Maybe we can look at what they do.

 

The eight immortals of taoist legend?

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[Wells]

23 minutes ago, Wells said:

 

The masters practicing "the highest levels and stages of meditation" should be able to regain their youth then.

I personally assume that replenishing jing is rather done with an extremely basic and simple form of training, but has nothing to do with gathering chi in the tantien.

 

Replenishing jing is supposed to happen in the beginning of taoist training.

How is a beginner supposed to be able to perform "the highest levels and stages of meditation"?

Therefore, replenishing jing has to be a simple and basic method which can be understood and performed by a beginner.

[Mudfoot]

Or being done with a relatively baser part/aspect of your energetic system? 

 

[Wells]

9 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

Or being done with a relatively baser part/aspect of your energetic system?

 

I am not sure where you are pointing at, but don't forget that your whole body and your whole system are supposed to become young and vital again.

[Wells]

Another point to consider which Teomeow pointed out in other threads is that most taoist alchemy systems are basically mash-ups of buddhist and taoist materials, which possibly explains their assumption that one has to become "completely yang" and therefore their assumption that "jing -> chi -> shen -> emptiness" has to happen and that many of these systems seem to skip the replenishment of jing because it's "yin".

Big mistake.

To find answers on how to replenish jing, one possibly better looks at systems which have remained completely taoist and are devoid of buddhist influences...

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[Orion]

There are other things that deplete jing, like serious illness or injury, and trauma. Not to mention a high stress lifestyle. In the past few years I have gone through chronic, life threatening illness, and I've noticed things like my beard getting more grey in it. I still look my age otherwise, but grey hair is one sign of jing depletion. During my healthy periods, I'm on top of everything. My nutrition, exercise and state of mind are all in good shape, but things like the grey beard never reverse.

 

So I think it's true that jing lost is lost forever. I have read all the ancient Chinese medicine texts, in the original Chinese, and what we know of jing is that it has a natal aspect that you're born with and an acquired aspect that comes from food and air. You can build acquired jing with spiritual practice all you want but if natal jing is depleted or damaged, it's gone for good.

 

I feel like natal jing is some kind of very core nutrition that we can't replace, even in the modern world where we have access to all the herbs, vitamins and supplements, good food, etc. Some modern people have interpreted natal jing as our parents' DNA but I don't think it is. It could be the telomeres on our DNA though. Telomeres get smaller with each cell replication, and the more the telomeres break down the more you age. In lab animals they have restored telomeres and the animals stay young.

[Wells]

Successful jing replenishment seemingly reverses your aging and makes you young again including restoring the color of your hair, eventually leading to stages of immortality, according to the classic scriptures.

It is definitely the most secret, most rare and most important taoist training method there is,

which leads to many schools which don't know the method to deny that it even exists.

Possibly the method never has been written down and to this day is only transmitted verbally in very few schools.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[Mudfoot]

What if the physical immortality part is a lie? Embellishments.

What if the spiritual immortality is the main deal. 

 

Prolonging your life, yes,  but not regaining your youth? 

Instead returning your spirit to that of a youth, an image popular in earlier versions of nei dan. 

[Wells]

1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

What if the physical immortality part is a lie? Embellishments.

What if the spiritual immortality is the main deal. 

 

Prolonging your life, yes,  but not regaining your youth? 

Instead returning your spirit to that of a youth, an image popular in earlier versions of nei dan. 

 

As the old texts show, the taoist saints achieved not only physical immortality but even "ascended to heaven in broad daylight" with their physical body.

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[Wells]

1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

What if the physical immortality part is a lie? Embellishments.

What if the spiritual immortality is the main deal. 

 

Prolonging your life, yes,  but not regaining your youth? 

Instead returning your spirit to that of a youth, an image popular in earlier versions of nei dan. 

 

So the guys become old, tottery, sick, demented and finally die when they run out of juice but ABRACADABRA directly afterwards roam the void as young and perfectly healthy spirits with uncanny and sharp mental abilities and almost exploding of vitality...?

Sounds like the taoist counterpart to the christian "Don't worry, grandpa is now in heaven with Jesus!"

In other words: Wishful thinking!

I rather fear: No physical signs (reversal of aging) now, no immortality later.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[Mudfoot]

You have several choices:

1)Hagiographies are true, but most schools have lost their potency and only a handful of practitioners in history were good enough. 

2) stories are embellished. You get results, like vitality of mind and body, but the appearance of the Body still ages. And when the body dies, you have phenomenon like the rainbow body and the continuation of a spiritual life. 

3) Since practitioners of this age seems to get older, perhaps this physical immortality was just a way to handle death anxiety. 

4) I ran out of possibilities 

[Wells]

I just got the info that according to Wu Liu Pai school, replenishment of jing is not only possible and definitely leads to reversal of aging, but also leads to the sign of "a child-like joy with life".

So, concerning objective signs & effects of jing replenishment, so far there seem to be only three in my opinion:

1) reversal of aging (early sign & effect)

2) physical immortality (longterm result of 1))

3) ascension to heaven with the physical body (final sign & effect)

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[Mudfoot]

Yes, they have stated that there are practitioners like that, but that they are revealed only to initiated members and so on. 

James McNeill claims that one of his teachers was 150 years old, and could levitate.

While this is possible, it is beyond my experience and so I do not have it as a personal goal. 

 

If it is true: Cool  

 

 

[Wells]

On 25.9.2017 at 5:54 AM, Wells said:

Most likely different taoist systems (taoist alchemy, daoyin, taoist neijia, etc.) have different approaches to the process of jing replenishment, but I assume that all these systems agree in its utmost and fundamental importance.

 

We already tried to look at jing from a taoist alchemy point of view.

But what is the definition of jing / essence (not jin / power!) in different chinese internal martial arts?

I am only aware of the equation of jing with "basic body awareness", but that doesn't seem to be what we are looking for here.

Do you guys know other interpretations or definitions of jing / essence in such internal martial art systems?

And, more important, do such systems offer methods to replenish jing?

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[Andrei]

I would probably look rather for signs like:

- increased vitality

go keto

- increased sexual energy

increase testosterone and reduce cortisol naturally by high intensity interval training

make sure you have in your diet or supplement Zinc, Magnesium, Selenium, vitamins B and D

- increased assertiveness

increase testosterone

- increased health

go keto and make sure you have the right minerals and vitamins

- increased mental energy

go keto

- reversal of aging

go keto or calorie restriction - all studies show this effect

- healing of chronic ailments

go keto

- increased overall wellbeing

avoid sedentarism, go training, go keto

- increased resistance against stress

go keto, go training

- increased immune system

go keto, go training. check your probiotics, make sure you have enough

- increased recovery

go keto, go training

- increased sleep quality

do I need to repeat myself?

- increased psychological stability

you got it

[Andrei]

1) reversal of aging (early sign & effect)

physical effort and restriction of calories 

2) physical immortality (longterm result of 1))

physical effort and restriction of calories for longevity but physical immortality does not exist, everything transforms, everything that has a beginning has an end, even in the texts they say "live as long as the heaven and earth" but even heaven and earth has a beginning and an end

3) ascension to heaven with the physical body (final sign & effect)

that's a myth, never happen, maybe with a spaceship more probable than anything else, and even so the probability is low, and even if it happened, it happen for a reason: to be served at dinner as the main dish