Effects and Signs of successful Jing Replenishment

[Wells]

15 minutes ago, Andrei said:

- reversal of aging

go keto or calorie restriction - all studies show this effect

 

So all studies show that 80 year old guys who go keto or calorie restriction become 20 years old again?

[Andrei]

no, they show that the biological age stagnates or even reverse a little bit as your advance in age, although the DNA telomers nobody can keep them intact

[Wells]

9 minutes ago, Andrei said:

no, they show that the biological age stagnates or even reverse a little bit as your advance in age, although the DNA telomers nobody can keep them intact

 

In other words: No reversal of aging / becoming young again.

[Andrei]

 "becoming young again" is a metaphor for virility coming back, either they could conceive children or even sustain an erection at 80 years old which is achievable, and many people are capable of doing that without bragging about it. 

[Wells]

38 minutes ago, Andrei said:

 "becoming young again" is a metaphor for virility coming back, either they could conceive children or even sustain an erection at 80 years old which is achievable, and many people are capable of doing that without bragging about it. 

 

If taoist alchemy would be about metaphors then "spirit immortals" would simply be people who after their deaths are remembered by other people...

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[Andrei]

28 minutes ago, Wells said:

 

If taoist alchemy would be about metaphors then "spirit immortals" would simply be people who are remembered by other people after their deaths...

 

Exactly this is what they are, they live in people's imagination, dreams, hallucinations. They are not real in the objective reality.

[Aeran]

22 hours ago, Wells said:

 

Seemingly rather replenishing jing and not just stabilizing it is the big secret and rare knowledge.

 

 

Well, as discussed above, exactly this is the dramatic misunderstanding of "inverting the course" in many popular taoist alchemy schools and which will not make you into an immortal but on the contrary, will possibly make you burn out even faster than a person who is not cultivating. If you "increase the efficiency of the jing > qi > shen conversion" then you will transform from a candle which burns at one end into a candle which burns at both ends. Your flame (chi) and its light (shen) will be twice as bright, but you also will burn out twice as fast. In the end, both sorts of candles will burn out anyway. The big secret in alchemy or taoist practice is how to add wax (jing) to the candle. This and only this is what can make a candle which never burns out and can make you into an immortal.

In other words: If Damo Mitchell is teaching how to increase the conversion rate of jing -> chi -> shen, then he possibly teaches how to burn out faster and therefore he possibly teaches the exact contrary way of becoming an immortal...like so many other public schools!

 

I think I did a poor job of summarising what the book says, it's been over a year since I read White Moon. But I did flick through it on my phone quickly yesterday and came across discussion of "reversing the course" more than once. And it seems likely to me that stabilizing the jing and making it's conversion to Qi more efficient (ie. preserving jing by getting the same amount of Qi from less Jing) would be the first step towards cultivating/replenishing Jing. I know he speaks about cultivation and restoring acquired Jing, but I think the congenital Jing is the tricky part. But like I said, I'm definitely no expert.

 

Of course it's just a book, so it's unlikely that the big ultra-secret teaching you seem to be seeking is going to be found there, but if you're looking for a good investigation of these subjects founded on practical experience, I think it'd be worth checking out. It's your money though

[Andrei]

Subjective reality is what it is in my mind, but what is in my mind is not in your mind and never be. 

The objective reality is what it is in both our minds, the reality we perceive, this forum, the letters, the way we interpret English language, this is a consented reality, the laws of universe are objective reality we can consent or not but we cannot avoid it.

The objective reality is that we all have to eat to produce energy which is called "calories" but the first and second law of thermodynamics states very clearly that you can consume energy and can produce from the energy consumed but you cannot create nor destroy the energy.

 

The Taoists say "from Jing to Qi to Shen" which means you have to eat to produce caloric energy to produce consciousness in your brain. This is the correct way to interpret all those stupid texts.

They say that if you stop the Shen, the Qi required is less then the Jing is less, so you have an excess of Jing unused.

So this is the "way of immortality" you stop your thoughts and your brain activity and the caloric requirement is reduce to almost zero, but then you don't live anymore, you can be as well be a mummy. Which is what they turned into: in living mummies that later turned into dead mummies. But a mummy is as dead as anybody else, because the consciousness is dead. 

[silent thunder]

that which has a form will dissipate, this seems the nature of forms

change is constant as described in the I Jing

 

that which is not form, cannot dissipate

thus the return from jing to qi, qi to shen, shen to nature, and nature to tao

the body is a pot

lower dan tien is a furnace

5 elemental qi goes in the pot

yin/yang qi go in the pot

yuan qi goes in the pot

seal the pot

 

 

lower dan tien is a furnace

shen is the fire that warms the pot

cook the golden pill in the pot

golden fetus forms

nurture the fetus

birth the fetus

rainbow body

 

tao is eternal

 

i sense that it is not the physical body which is to be preserved

but the body seems an agent in the alchemical process

that gives rise to what is referred to as the rainbow body/yang body/immortal

 

kind heart, quiet heart, sincere heart... with these, every action and moment of life is practice

without them all the practice of the day amounts to little more than waving ones hands in the air

 

kind heart

quiet heart

sincere heart

 

this is purely the distillation of my experiences with Zhou Ting-Jue, Wang Liping and my own ilusory self... just an opinion

 

[Orion]

5 hours ago, Wells said:

Successful jing replenishment seemingly reverses your aging and makes you young again including restoring the color of your hair, eventually leading to stages of immortality, according to the classic scriptures.

It is definitely the most secret, most rare and most important taoist training method there is,

which leads to many schools which don't know the method to deny that it even exists.

Possibly the method never has been written down and to this day is only transmitted verbally in very few schools.

 

I have been doing TCM for over 5 years, and I've been involved in the Tantric community for even longer. I have never seen anyone at any age reverse their aging process. People with grey hair stay grey, even after they take the jing tonics and do the practices. And we're talking about people who are highly experienced and have been doing tantra for 30+ years, teachers, some of whom are lineage practitioners. People in China take He Shou Wu to keep their hair black and most of the time it doesn't work, and they damage their livers all the while.

 

My impression is that it's mostly superstition. You can reverse some aging and you can prolong your life beyond 100 years. You can conserve jing and even restore it but this idea that there are immortals walking the earth is mythological. Every time you question someone about it they just say that the methods are top secret and the people who are practicing it are hiding out. Whatever.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Orion

[Rakiel]

in regards to physical immortality (or extreme longevity) maybe the answer lies not in energetic practices but in external substances and diet. didn't Li Ching Yuen eat a lot of goji berries? certain herbs replenish jing, right?

[Wells]

The topic seems to be quite controversal.

The reality is that people who claim that "inverting the course", "replenishing jing", "reversal of aging", "physical immortality", "daytime ascending" and "celestial immortality" are impossible claim that the classic taoist texts are lies and that the classic taoist authors are liars or fools.

50 years ago, most people on earth believed that man would never walk on the moon and that people who claimed different were liars or fools. Even today, some people still claim that man never walked on the moon.

It's seemingly hard for many people to imagine the possibility of something that they have never encountered or experienced themselves.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Wells

[KuroShiro]

7 hours ago, Wells said:

 

Replenishing jing is supposed to happen in the beginning of taoist training.

How is a beginner supposed to be able to perform "the highest levels and stages of meditation"?

Therefore, replenishing jing has to be a simple and basic method which can be understood and performed by a beginner.

 

If I remember right the books I've read about Classical Chinese Medicine/Acupuncture state that we are born with a given amount of jing that cannot be replenished but can be "worked" with by making wise lifestyle choices.

 

Do you know any C.C.M. book or Dr./Acupuncturist that talks about the possibility of replenishing jing?

 

 

7 hours ago, Wells said:

 

I am not sure where you are pointing at, but don't forget that your whole body and your whole system are supposed to become young and vital again.

 

Where have you read/heard this?

 

There's also this about the telomeres:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2016/mar/03/could-meditation-really-help-slow-the-ageing-process

[KuroShiro]

49 minutes ago, Rakiel said:

in regards to physical immortality (or extreme longevity) maybe the answer lies not in energetic practices but in external substances and diet. didn't Li Ching Yuen eat a lot of goji berries? certain herbs replenish jing, right?

 

I haven't read the book. Is his age confirmed without any doubts?

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by KuroShiro

[ChiForce]

Have we forgotten something?  You jing gets depleted and replenished in a cycle.  Is just a natural way of nature.  At what points you think your jing is helping you looking young and etc...  Is it permanent??  At what points the benefits becoming permanent?  Regardless of your jing depletion and replenishment cycles????     

[Wells]

10 minutes ago, ChiForce said:

Have we forgotten something?  You jing gets depleted and replenished in a cycle.  Is just a natural way of nature.  At what points you think your jing is helping you looking young and etc...  Is it permanent??  At what points the benefits becoming permanent?  Regardless of your jing depletion and replenishment cycles????     

 

What cycle?

[ChiForce]

Just now, Wells said:

 

What cycle?

Yeah, what cycle???  Do you think you can hold your jing forever and not leaking??? 

[Wells]

10 minutes ago, ChiForce said:

Yeah, what cycle???  Do you think you can hold your jing forever and not leaking??? 

 

Your question was already answered in this thread:

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/45229-effects-and-signs-of-successful-jing-replenishment/?do=findComment&comment=784690

 

[ChiForce]

5 minutes ago, Wells said:

 

Your question was already answered in this thread:

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/45229-effects-and-signs-of-successful-jing-replenishment/?do=findComment&comment=784690

 

Thanks but nah.....it isn't helping.    You are supposed to transform your jing, into Chi, and chi to Shen  The problem lies in that jing leakage is a real issue.  As long as you are losing your jing, it is difficult to cultivate your chi into Shen.  Is not impossible however.  I believe that as long as you allow nature to work on your jing leakage while cultivating your chi, the benefits can be accumulative.  The common belief that if you are leaking jing, you will lose all of your cultivation progress, which is not true.     

[Echo]

Some additional thoughts from my side: 

 

If replenishing jing/ming gong would actually lead to reversal of aging / physical immortality and it's a foundational practice logically there would be no need for lineages in the sects that have the correct methods, since no member would die of age related causes. Except for the members that die from accidents or leave earth for other reasons of course.

 

In every other tradition I'm vaguely familiar with (Yoga/Tantra, (Tibetian)/Buddhism) immortality (in all forms) is considered an achievement of extremely advanced spiritual practice and not a foundation.

 

 

[Orion]

My point is... where are these immortals? Are they immaterial spirits or are we talking physical humans you can touch and feel?

 

Because if people are claiming that immortal humans are walking the Earth, there has not been one single iota of proof other than superstitious stories. The excuse is that they're always in hiding. But why? 

 

If you're immortal then you have centuries to become enlightened. Why would an enlightened person remain hidden?

 

It just doesn't make any sense.

 

I believe jing practices are very useful for longevity but human immortality is a farce. We're supposed to die, it's part of nature. The spirit returns to Heaven and then resumes its next leg of the journey.

 

You want to be this ego forever??

[Wells]

As not everybody posting in this thread seems to have basic knowledge about the purpose of taoist practice,

please read this essay first before further posting:

 

http://www.all-dao.com/essence-taoist-alchemy.html

 

[mrpasserby]

7 hours ago, silent thunder said:

that which has a form will dissipate, this seems the nature of forms

change is constant as described in the I Jing

 

that which is not form, cannot dissipate

thus the return from jing to qi, qi to shen, shen to nature, and nature to tao

the body is a pot

lower dan tien is a furnace

5 elemental qi goes in the pot

yin/yang qi go in the pot

yuan qi goes in the pot

seal the pot

 

 

lower dan tien is a furnace

shen is the fire that warms the pot

cook the golden pill in the pot

golden fetus forms

nurture the fetus

birth the fetus

rainbow body

 

tao is eternal

 

i sense that it is not the physical body which is to be preserved

but the body seems an agent in the alchemical process

that gives rise to what is referred to as the rainbow body/yang body/immortal

 

kind heart, quiet heart, sincere heart... with these, every action and moment of life is practice

without them all the practice of the day amounts to little more than waving ones hands in the air

 

kind heart

quiet heart

sincere heart

 

this is purely the distillation of my experiences with Zhou Ting-Jue, Wang Liping and my own ilusory self... just an opinion

 

I am , new to Daoism, I like this thread in general and your opinion in particular.

Spoiler

Visualizations stories the mage

I only have experiential knowledge:

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by mrpasserby
Font problems

[mrpasserby]

2 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

Healthy cynicism is good to separate the phonies from the real deal, but there comes a point that it's so contrarian, why believe anything? Most highly-skilled teachers, immortal or not, don't care of we believe in them and their abilities and our potential. 

 

Staying on topic, a teacher I have said to us that "if we cut a man open, we will never see qi, but we know that it exists because we feel it". Applying that to jing and other things, can we see then that it's a little more than using only the current tools to measure the criteria for the potential to do what is hidden in myth and legend? 

 

I prefer to be open with healthy skepticism, but don't want to adopt cynicism to the point of outright dismissal. 

'I prefer to be open with healthy skepticism, but don't want to adopt cynicism to the point of outright dismissal.'

I am still liking your comments, without the experiencing/seeing it for myself which I have, I would doubt anyone else if they claimed that they have seen a persons rainbow body. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by mrpasserby

[ChiForce]

About immortality?  I think is a reference to the continuation of the consciousness.  Not in a physical sense.  Is it real?  I think so...because I have seen few figures in my visions which can only be described as immortals because they were dressed in different times.  And they live in the heavenly realm or the formless realm.  How do they appear and why they would appear?  I don't know....