Phoenix3 Posted January 10, 2018 Just now, Apeiron&Peiron said: Jing isn't stored in the dantian... there are main accumulation sites but jing chi and shen are all over the body. But I thought Neigong/Neidan was all about turning the Jing in the lower dantian to Qi? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessup2 Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) I am no expert on the subject Phoenix3, but I certainly see the challenge. I would not take anyone's word for it, but study and dig and compare, since what Peiron is saying doesn't match the data available. According to some literature, there are also different phases or levels of energy, and at each level you look at the energy and flow of energy in a different way. I would like to point out that it is sufficient for me to see that practitioners do indeed claim things like pituitary functions and secretions when it suits the purpose, but claim it is all an external or spiritual energy for other purposes. In other words, on one hand there is the physical relationship to what is happening, but it is just a reaction to changes in spiritual energy. When in my opinion, it is the other way around, i.e., changing the energy of the body and glands, switching control of pituitary and other systems to a slowed brain frequency that is still conscious, supplies the sensations like this excretion. I personally would like a sample of this for the lab, if it even exists. Edited January 10, 2018 by Jessup2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessup2 Posted January 10, 2018 Kidneys store essence (jing)Essence, which is also called "essential qi" or jing is considered to be the underpinning of all aspects of organic life. Stored in the kidneys, it is the material basis for all kinds of functional activities and is responsible for human growth and development. Jing - translated as Essence, a very precious substance, should be guarded and not wasted. Prenatal Jing Postnatal Jing Kidney Jing Prenatal Jing (Pre-Heaven Essence) At conception, the Prenatal Jing is passed to the fetus from the parents. Prenatal Jing (together with an energy derived from the Kidneys of the mother) nourishes the fetus during pregnancy. Prenatal Jing determines basic constitution, strength, and vitality. It is fixed in quantity, determined at birth: it cannot be added to, only conserved and used up more slowly. It is stored in the Kidneys. The way to conserve Prenatal Jing is by striving for balance in all life activities. Balance meaning moderation in diet, work/rest, sexual activity. Irregularity or excess in these areas wastes Prenatal Jing. Certain exercises help conserve Prenatal Jing, such as breathing exercises, Taiji (Tai Chi), and Qi Gong. Postnatal Jing (Post-Heaven Essence) After birth, the child begins eating, drinking, and breathing independently. Its Lungs, Spleen and Stomach then begin functioning to extract and refine Qi from the food and drink it consumes and the air it breaths. Postnatal Jing is the complex of essences thus refined and extracted. Postnatal Jing depends on the functions of Stomach and Spleen. Jing, translated as Essence, is a very precious substance, which should be guarded and not wasted. Two main kinds: Prenatal Jing (Pre-Heaven Essence) and Postnatal Jing (Post-Heaven Essence). Kidney Jing Kidney Jing plays important role in physiology. Is hereditary, like Prenatal Jing and determines constitution. However, is partly replenished by the Postnatal Jing. Stored in the Kidneys but has fluid nature and circulates all over the body, especially in the Eight Ancestral (Extraordinary) Vessels. Forms the basis for growth, development, sexual maturation, and reproduction. Moves in long, slow cycles, and presides over the major phases of development in life. The first is in childhood. Kidney Jing controls growth of bones, teeth, hair, brain development and sexual maturation. Where Kidney Jing is weak, there may be poor bone and teeth development, stunted growth, and mental retardation. Puberty. Kidney Jing controls reproductive function and fertility, and normal development into adulthood. Developmental problems that occur at this time such as amenorrhea, are often related to weak Kidney Jing. Conception and pregnancy are guided and controlled by Kidney Jing. Where Kidney Jing is weak, signs such as infertility, chronic miscarriage and other such problems may occur. Kidney Jing declines naturally, finally producing the characteristic signs of hair/teeth loss, impairment of memory, etc. Kidney Jing is the basis for Kidney Qi Jing is fluid-like and therefore more Yin. Can be considered as an aspect of Kidney Yin. Forms the material basis for production of Kidney Qi (via the warming action of Kidney Yang. Kidney Yin is warmed by Kidney Yang and Kidney Qi is formed, but Kidney Jing is necessary before this transformation can occur. Deficiency of Kidney Jing can thus result in such problems as impotence, chronic weak or sore lower back, weak knees, tinnitus, urinary incontinence, deafness, loose teeth, etc. (all signs of weak Kidney Qi and/or Yang.) Kidney Jing produces Marrow Kidney Jing produces Marrow. Marrow produces bone marrow, the brain, and the spinal cord (Marrow in TCM has no exact equivalent in Western Medicine). The Brain in TCM is called the "Sea of Marrow". Therefore if Kidney Jing is weak, brain may be undernourished, leading to poor memory/concentration, "empty" feeling in the head, dizziness, etc. Kidney Jing determines our Constitution Our protection from exterior pathogens depends largely on the strength of a type of Qi: the Defensive (Wei) Qi. However, the state of Kidney Essence also influences our strength and resistance. If the Essence is "wasted" or poorly stored, the person may have lowered immunity to exogenous pathogenic influences and constantly be ill with cold, influenza, allergies, etc. Essence and Qi are the material foundation for Shen (Mind). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessup2 Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Jing is yin relative to other forms of body energy. Yet, jing itself has yin and yang expressions. The yin, earthy aspect of jing, is the reproductive and sexual fluids. The yang aspect is saliva. And here: The Middle Dantian is located at the middle chest and will store the overflow of Qi from the Lower Dantian as it is converted from Jing (sexual energy) to pure Qi. The Lower Dantian: (Jing) located two inches below the navel, it is the source of energy which builds the physical body and allows us to develop and use Qi and Shen. The Middle Dantian: (QI) located at the heart, it is energy created from food and air and relates to our emotions and thoughts. The Upper Dantian: (Shen) located at a center point just higher than the eye brows, it is related to our spirit and/or consciousness. Edited January 10, 2018 by Jessup2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessup2 Posted January 10, 2018 The Varieties of Jing Energy This list is not comprehensive by any means... Fa jing (explosive jing) Heavy/Rooted/Sinking jing (Chen Jing) Silk reeling (chansi jing) Peng Jing Absorbing jing Pulling silk Electrical jing Magnetic jing Ting jing (listening Jing) Empty force (kong jing) Short/Inch or less Jing (Chuen Jing) Unbending Energy Following Jing (Tzo Jing) Neutralizing Jing (Hua Jing) Borrowing Jing (Tzeh Jing) Rolling/Folding Jing (Jen Jing) Spiral Jing (Dzuen Jing) Cold Jing (Nung Jing) Vibrating Jing (Dow So Jing) Floating 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MIchael80 Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Jessup2 said: Kidneys store essence (jing)Essence, which is also called "essential qi" or jing is considered to be the underpinning of all aspects of organic life. Stored in the kidneys, it is the material basis for all kinds of functional activities and is responsible for human growth and development. Jing - translated as Essence, a very precious substance, should be guarded and not wasted. Prenatal Jing Postnatal Jing Kidney Jing Prenatal Jing (Pre-Heaven Essence) At conception, the Prenatal Jing is passed to the fetus from the parents. Prenatal Jing (together with an energy derived from the Kidneys of the mother) nourishes the fetus during pregnancy. Prenatal Jing determines basic constitution, strength, and vitality. It is fixed in quantity, determined at birth: it cannot be added to, only conserved and used up more slowly. It is stored in the Kidneys. The way to conserve Prenatal Jing is by striving for balance in all life activities. Balance meaning moderation in diet, work/rest, sexual activity. Irregularity or excess in these areas wastes Prenatal Jing. Certain exercises help conserve Prenatal Jing, such as breathing exercises, Taiji (Tai Chi), and Qi Gong. Postnatal Jing (Post-Heaven Essence) After birth, the child begins eating, drinking, and breathing independently. Its Lungs, Spleen and Stomach then begin functioning to extract and refine Qi from the food and drink it consumes and the air it breaths. Postnatal Jing is the complex of essences thus refined and extracted. Postnatal Jing depends on the functions of Stomach and Spleen. Jing, translated as Essence, is a very precious substance, which should be guarded and not wasted. Two main kinds: Prenatal Jing (Pre-Heaven Essence) and Postnatal Jing (Post-Heaven Essence). Kidney Jing Kidney Jing plays important role in physiology. Is hereditary, like Prenatal Jing and determines constitution. However, is partly replenished by the Postnatal Jing. Stored in the Kidneys but has fluid nature and circulates all over the body, especially in the Eight Ancestral (Extraordinary) Vessels. Forms the basis for growth, development, sexual maturation, and reproduction. Moves in long, slow cycles, and presides over the major phases of development in life. The first is in childhood. Kidney Jing controls growth of bones, teeth, hair, brain development and sexual maturation. Where Kidney Jing is weak, there may be poor bone and teeth development, stunted growth, and mental retardation. Puberty. Kidney Jing controls reproductive function and fertility, and normal development into adulthood. Developmental problems that occur at this time such as amenorrhea, are often related to weak Kidney Jing. Conception and pregnancy are guided and controlled by Kidney Jing. Where Kidney Jing is weak, signs such as infertility, chronic miscarriage and other such problems may occur. Kidney Jing declines naturally, finally producing the characteristic signs of hair/teeth loss, impairment of memory, etc. Kidney Jing is the basis for Kidney Qi Jing is fluid-like and therefore more Yin. Can be considered as an aspect of Kidney Yin. Forms the material basis for production of Kidney Qi (via the warming action of Kidney Yang. Kidney Yin is warmed by Kidney Yang and Kidney Qi is formed, but Kidney Jing is necessary before this transformation can occur. Deficiency of Kidney Jing can thus result in such problems as impotence, chronic weak or sore lower back, weak knees, tinnitus, urinary incontinence, deafness, loose teeth, etc. (all signs of weak Kidney Qi and/or Yang.) Kidney Jing produces Marrow Kidney Jing produces Marrow. Marrow produces bone marrow, the brain, and the spinal cord (Marrow in TCM has no exact equivalent in Western Medicine). The Brain in TCM is called the "Sea of Marrow". Therefore if Kidney Jing is weak, brain may be undernourished, leading to poor memory/concentration, "empty" feeling in the head, dizziness, etc. Kidney Jing determines our Constitution Our protection from exterior pathogens depends largely on the strength of a type of Qi: the Defensive (Wei) Qi. However, the state of Kidney Essence also influences our strength and resistance. If the Essence is "wasted" or poorly stored, the person may have lowered immunity to exogenous pathogenic influences and constantly be ill with cold, influenza, allergies, etc. Essence and Qi are the material foundation for Shen (Mind). Hi! In neidan pre-natal is not pre-heaven. In fact pre-natal is post-heaven as it comes from "this side of creation". Pre-heaven is from the other side. I like the graph of Damo Mitchell about jing-chi-shen....but as he has shown in his book "white moon on the mountain peak" he does not know the methods for replenishing the yuan jing (the pre-heaven jing). the northern school with full teaching does this in meditation, in indian alchemical systems it happens only after further stages have been completed and they just preserve what they have and in the southern school they have moving forms for the refilling of yuan jing. best Edited January 10, 2018 by MIchael80 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessup2 Posted January 10, 2018 Also of interest; ADH hormone is made by the hypothalamus in the brain and stored in the posterior pituitary gland. It tells your kidneys how much water to conserve. ADH constantly regulates and balances the amount of water in your blood. Higher water concentration increases the volume and pressure of your blood. Also known as vasopressin... Evidence for an effect of AVP on monogamy vs promiscuity comes from experimental studies in several species, which indicate that the precise distribution of vasopressin and vasopressin receptors in the brain is associated with species-typical patterns of social behavior. In particular, there are consistent differences between monogamous species and promiscuous species in the distribution of AVP receptors, and sometimes in the distribution of vasopressin-containing axons, even when closely related species are compared. and may play an important role in social behavior, sexual motivation and pair bonding, and maternal responses to stress... more fluids also increases electrical conductivity in general 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessup2 Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Oxytocin is made in magnocellular neurosecretory cells of the supraoptic and paraventricular nuclei, and is stored in Herring bodies at the axon terminals in the posterior pituitary. It is then released into the blood from the posterior lobe (neurohypophysis) of the pituitary gland. It governs maternal behavior, lactation, selective social bonding and sex the results of a double-blind, placebo-controlled experiment showing that the hormone oxytocin promotes group-serving dishonesty. Compared with participants receiving placebo, participants receiving oxytocin lied more to benefit their groups, did so quicker, and did so without expectation of reciprocal dishonesty from their group members. A control setting ruled out that oxytocin drives self-serving dishonesty. These findings support the functional approach to morality and reveal the underlying biological circuitries associated with group-serving dishonesty. Edited January 10, 2018 by Jessup2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessup2 Posted January 10, 2018 http://www.juniordentist.com/hormones-released-from-pituitary-gland-and-their-functions.html Pituitary secretions and functions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix3 Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Thank you very much for your help. Out of interest, is the yuanjing also carried in the body’s fluids like the post-heaven jing? I assume post-heaven jing is feminine/yin nature and yuanjing is masculine/yang nature? Edited January 10, 2018 by Phoenix3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted January 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Jessup2 said: The Varieties of Jing Energy This list is not comprehensive by any means... Fa jing (explosive jing) Heavy/Rooted/Sinking jing (Chen Jing) Silk reeling (chansi jing) Peng Jing Absorbing jing Pulling silk Electrical jing Magnetic jing Ting jing (listening Jing) Empty force (kong jing) Short/Inch or less Jing (Chuen Jing) Unbending Energy Following Jing (Tzo Jing) Neutralizing Jing (Hua Jing) Borrowing Jing (Tzeh Jing) Rolling/Folding Jing (Jen Jing) Spiral Jing (Dzuen Jing) Cold Jing (Nung Jing) Vibrating Jing (Dow So Jing) Floating Which shows that "Jing" is not a substance. If it were, the list would be totally irrational to everyone. (To most literate westerners, it would be right now) Jing is not a substance that changes into another substance. Neither is Qi. All deriving from initial and continued misunderstanding of Yin/Yang thinking. -VonKrankenhaus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessup2 Posted January 10, 2018 You wish... I say, just because we have different versions of something, doesn't mean it can be defined or explained. Simply making stuff up as you go due to the lack of your own understanding.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shevek Posted January 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Jessup2 said: The Varieties of Jing Energy This list is not comprehensive by any means... Fa jing (explosive jing) Heavy/Rooted/Sinking jing (Chen Jing) Silk reeling (chansi jing) Peng Jing Absorbing jing Pulling silk Electrical jing Magnetic jing Ting jing (listening Jing) Empty force (kong jing) Short/Inch or less Jing (Chuen Jing) Unbending Energy Following Jing (Tzo Jing) Neutralizing Jing (Hua Jing) Borrowing Jing (Tzeh Jing) Rolling/Folding Jing (Jen Jing) Spiral Jing (Dzuen Jing) Cold Jing (Nung Jing) Vibrating Jing (Dow So Jing) Floating I believe that the list above should refer to 勁 Jìn (strength, power). The OP and discussion of Jing, Qi, Shen referred to replenishment of Jīng 精 (essence). Different word, different meaning. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Shevek said: I believe that the list above should refer to 勁 Jìn (strength, power). The OP and discussion of Jing, Qi, Shen referred to replenishment of Jīng 精 (essence). Different word, different meaning. I waited for someone to notice... 勁 Jìn is a unique way to use resources of the body, mind, and spirit cultivated in internal MA. To develop various jins is like learning to play chess while playing the violin while riding a bicycle on a tightrope attached to your proprioception on one end and to your yi on the other, for lack of a better metaphor. It is, incidentally, not unrelated to jing, with which it gets so inevitably (but of course erroneously) confused so often -- to wit, they can potentiate each other, but only in a gongfu context, in the course of cultivation. A good amount of quality jing can lay down a foundation for developing jins should one undertake such development, and make the task easier. By the same token, working on developing jins (provided one does not go fajin happy and does not use up too much qi in issuing) can translate into conservation, refining, and accumulation of jing. (Of course it goes without saying that neither one is a substance, although certain substances under certain conditions can indicate certain jing dynamics. Many substances under many conditions.) To OP's question about signs of successful jing replenishment: why immortality of course. Immortals, incidentally, don't necessarily look particularly young -- they look the age they choose to look. A few are young-looking, or even look like children or teenagers, but the vast majority look middle-aged or old, or even ancient. Obsession with youthful looks doesn't seem to last an eternity -- at least not for most eternal beings. Edited January 11, 2018 by Taomeow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MIchael80 Posted January 11, 2018 14 hours ago, Phoenix3 said: Thank you very much for your help. Out of interest, is the yuanjing also carried in the body’s fluids like the post-heaven jing? I assume post-heaven jing is feminine/yin nature and yuanjing is masculine/yang nature? Hi Phoenix3! No it is not carried in the body. the yuanjing the neidan schools talk about is more like our battery and losely ascociated with the kidneys. Yes, the ming (yuan jing/yuan chi) is yang, but pre-heaven yang...which is a "pure" yang. That is why it is refilled....they increase the pre-heaven yang to merge it into the xing (to make the soul completely yang and produce the yang shen). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
