Nei Gung - What is it? to Starjumper, Buddy, et al.

[Mal]

"It is a Martial Chi Kung because it is the type of Chi Kung that enhances speed of movement, it trains and enhances striking power at a fundamental level, and it increases sensitivity, agility,

Pffft.

Mmmm, o.k. but the quote sums up why my Sifu teaches me chi gung.

 

Chi gung is like the engine for our short power.

 

Thanks for the link Star.....I think we are doing a very similar thing, although via a different path.

[Buddy]

I'm not saying that what Steve has isn't good, I wouldn't know. But the silly hyperbole that it's the best in the world or his teacher is the best in the world is juvenile. Is it the best that he's seen? No problem with that. But it's a big world. And no one is getting self defense skills by practicing just neigong.

[Mal]

But the silly hyperbole that it's the best in the world or his teacher is the best in the world is juvenile.

And no one is getting self defense skills by practicing just neigong.

 

Both True.

 

I do think neigong/chi gung (honestly don't know the real difference or what I do, again easy to show) exercises enhance self defence ability though.

 

My Sigung only teaches chi gung to his assistant instructors and above. So they already have an excellent base in the fundamentals of the art. My Sifu teaches it to us as soon as we start learning. He believes it will take us years of practice to "get" them & after 5 years I agree, they do take a while to learn

[Buddy]

"I do think neigong/chi gung (honestly don't know the real difference or what I do, again easy to show) exercises enhance self defence ability though."

 

I think neigong enhances the vehicle through which the techniques of self defense are delivered (one's skill). But actual defending one's self is only enhanced by practicing to defend one's self (fighting techniques).

[Mal]

I think neigong enhances the vehicle through which the techniques of self defense are delivered (one's skill). But actual defending one's self is only enhanced by practicing to defend one's self (fighting techniques).

 

Cool, nice description, I agree.

[Starjumper]

Buddy, on my martial arts page it say clearly that the chi kung should be combined with one of the internal arts for maximum benefit. Also my website does not say "best in the world" nor did I say it on this forum. Also, you took the statement out of context and need to read the whole martial arts section to get the idea that I'm trying to present.

 

Buddy, I'm curious, how long did you study with Frantzis to learn your nei kung?

 

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Hellooo..... anybody home? Any other feedback or questions about my website?

 

To add a little more perspective to my practice and to learn what nei kung can be, here is a partial list of energy abilities I've developed as a result of the practice.

 

Special abilities thread at ET

Keep in mind that before I started I never felt energy and doubted that it existed.

 

Did anyone read that one? You need to join to read the Dragon Gate section which contains the cultivation subjects. If you didn't see it, here's a teaser: (can't wait to hear what Buddy thinks about it =)

 

On the spot where I always stand in my practice room there is a strong beam of energy flowing upwards from floor to ceiling, and probably past it, that I can feel as much as three weeks after having last practiced there, which is as long as I've gone without practicing on there, mainly due to vacations.

 

Once in the mountains I was surprised to find that I could create a little fountain of energy coming out of the ground by pulling up on it and then find that the little fountain is still there two days later when I return through the area.

Edited January 17, 2008 by Starjumper7

[WhiteTiger]

"I do think neigong/chi gung (honestly don't know the real difference or what I do, again easy to show) exercises enhance self defence ability though."

 

I think neigong enhances the vehicle through which the techniques of self defense are delivered (one's skill). But actual defending one's self is only enhanced by practicing to defend one's self (fighting techniques).

 

I suck at using words to convey my ideas. But man you do a WORSE JOB!

 

Dude i think some people have been very nice a patient with you. While you use words is a weird way to convey what your saying. Your problem is simple, you will not be a critic or give constructive criticism. You will actually go so far to say hateful things and just outright call it blashy... or at least thats the way it seems.

 

Not untill you actually are saying something about what you believe do you then explain what you mean correctly.

 

It seems more like a word play game with you rather then a discussion. I see a lot of me in you (years ago) but honestly you can think whatever you want about whatever one says but until you can put the time an effort to properly explain what is bad... your judgement is seen as well questionable, more of a rant and rave.

 

main two qoutes i base this one is the one posted above and the one posted below

 

"It is a Martial Chi Kung because it is the type of Chi Kung that enhances speed of movement, it trains and enhances striking power at a fundamental level, and it increases sensitivity, agility, and certain psychic benefits which are a benefit to self defense. It teaches self defense abilities on a subconcious level, similar to the way Tai Chi does, but in a more subtle way."

 

Pffft.

 

Not to defend Starjumper but there are many places online where it says that Meditation, Nei gong, and most people already do Qi Gong to make there martial abilities enhanced. Look at other internal arts to give you that prospective. You are trying to look at how its done, yes it doesn't refine it but helps supplement it. How it is done i have little understanding to say.

 

Honestly, I think your picking at what Starjumper said not very well in words, while he might not have used the best words or way to describe what he meant doesn't take away from the fact what he meant isn't correct. Your picking at what he was trying to convey vs what he said in words. And maybe he didn't know how to properly convey it at the time... people need to think and spend time on this specially the less they know about a subject. He already said before he changed the website that he is a fighter or something like that (please correct me Starjumper) Maybe it was a referrance more or less that he doesn't do external martial arts... and now that i think about it as i'm typing. Maybe it wasn't on his website, but he was talking about a student that was teaching happens to also be doing martial arts while he was just starting to learn Starjumper's Nei Gong system.

 

In the past I've also been very enthusiastic about how great my teacher was. Its only because i have so much experience with that ONE teacher and he was the BEST I'VE SEEN... or even GOTTEN THAT FAR IN THE SYSTEM... thats all that Starjumper is trying to say.

 

I look up to teachers for they have something to teach me if someone knows a whole lot that i don't i still look up to... i'm still suspicious of somethings that I DON'T UNDERSTNAD that starjumper discribes but I'm not going into it with a close mind and i'm not being disrespectful or rude to him. I only do that because i want to learn what he has to teach... i want to experience and understand what he means before I have my own thoughts about it. Even then I personally don't have such negative thoughts about them. I just understand the situation and accept it. Or at least thats what i try to practice. Same as Max's Kunlun but realizing that it would cost way to much money to learn the first two stages (which are totally beginner) stages. Because i would be interested in the higher levels (if I'm wrong please help describe to me how i misunderstood something).

 

Hellooo..... anybody home? Any other feedback or questions about my website?

 

I liked what was said in "The Taoist path of the immortal" link on your website. Didn't spend enough time to read everything but definately some interesting things on the "deep end" link on your website.

[Starjumper]

Your picking at what he was trying to convey vs what he said in words. And maybe he didn't know how to properly convey it at the time... people need to think and spend time on this specially the less they know about a subject. He already said before he changed the website that he is a fighter or something like that (please correct me Starjumper) Maybe it was a referrance more or less that he doesn't do external martial arts... and now that i think about it as i'm typing. Maybe it wasn't on his website, but he was talking about a student that was teaching happens to also be doing martial arts while he was just starting to learn Starjumper's Nei Gong system.

 

Hi White Tiger, what happened is that I had a student who was with me for a few years and he was quite advanced in kung fu before he joined me. At one point he told me that he was shocked that I was offering this stuff to the public. At that point I didn't really understand what he meant because I didn't focus on that aspect of it. I'm sure it is hard to believe, but such an advanced master of both chi kung and martial arts as my teacher was had as a primary goal that of arriving at the formless and he is such a genius he kept improving his methods and I think he figured it out. There is a martial art associated with my chi kung which you can be certain no one has heard of. Both my chi kung and the related martial art have very few practitioners in the whole world and they are always on the verge of dying out. The closest idea you will be able to get as to how it works is by looking at Russian Systema, a very 'Taoist' type of internal martial art which evolved on the same mountain range that my chi kung evolved on.

 

Just do a Youtube thing on Russian Systema. I feel that some of you here will not be able to accept it, and I'm not saying who =)

 

I liked what was said in "The Taoist path of the immortal" link on your website. Didn't spend enough time to read everything but definately some interesting things on the "deep end" link on your website.

 

I'm glad you liked it, the pages are still there for you to review at your convenience.

Edited January 19, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Buddy]

"I suck at using words to convey my ideas. But man you do a WORSE JOB!

 

Dude i think some people have been very nice a patient with you. While you use words is a weird way to convey what your saying. Your problem is simple, you will not be a critic or give constructive criticism. You will actually go so far to say hateful things and just outright call it blashy... or at least thats the way it seems.

 

Not untill you actually are saying something about what you believe do you then explain what you mean correctly.

 

It seems more like a word play game with you rather then a discussion. I see a lot of me in you (years ago) but honestly you can think whatever you want about whatever one says but until you can put the time an effort to properly explain what is bad... your judgement is seen as well questionable, more of a rant and rave.

 

main two qoutes i base this one is the one posted above and the one posted below"

 

I think the issue is your understanding. Mal certainly got it, and the comment was directed to him. I'm not particularly concerned whether you get it or not. I don't know you and haven't addressed you. If you have a particular question about what I am saying, ask it.

 

"Buddy, on my martial arts page it say clearly that the chi kung should be combined with one of the internal arts for maximum benefit. Also my website does not say "best in the world" nor did I say it on this forum. Also, you took the statement out of context and need to read the whole martial arts section to get the idea that I'm trying to present."

 

Editing is a convenient thing.

Edited January 19, 2008 by Buddy

[WhiteTiger]

Well Buddy all i can say is you continue make actions that are well, (i shall just say) imbalanced Yin and Yang. Which I don't believe is the proper way to go about things. I'm sorry that you totally and utterly put me off with the way you flaunt your words around.

 

I do hope one day this problem will even out before it ends up doing some bad things that physically/mental/spiritual limits to your psyche which shall slowly make your life harder. (there was actually a great thread that talked about it somewhere on TheTaoBums.com)

Edited January 20, 2008 by WhiteTiger

[Buddy]

Well Buddy all i can say is you continue make actions that are well, (i shall just say) imbalanced Yin and Yang."

 

Another fortune cookie readerl.

 

"Which I don't believe is the proper way to go about things."

 

Do you think I give a rat's patoot what you believe? I've managed to live this long without your approval.

 

"I'm sorry that you totally and utterly put me off with the way you flaunt your words around."

 

Don't take it too hard.

 

"I do hope one day this problem will even out before it ends up doing some bad things that physically/mental/spiritual limits to your psyche which shall slowly make your life harder."

 

Oh please, keep your silly passive/aggressiveness to yourself, son.

[WhiteTiger]

Oh please, keep your silly passive/aggressiveness to yourself, son.

 

Show me where the aggressive side comes out when I'm talking to you (and specifically not because you go around with the hatred words at people, but actually meaning aggression totally and 100% towards you) If you can do that then I will have learned that i was passive aggressive (and will stop, because i don't like to do it honestly!)

[Buddy]

Some guy who calls himself "White Tiger" said:

 

Show me where the aggressive side comes out when I'm talking to you"

 

You think you need to comment on how you think I should behave for some reason. And you try to do with feigned passive behavior.

 

"(and specifically not because you go around with the hatred words at people,"

 

Hatred?.....hyperbole, again.

 

"but actually meaning aggression totally and 100% towards you)"

 

I have no idea what this means.

 

"If you can do that then I will have learned that i was passive aggressive (and will stop, because i don't like to do it honestly!)"

 

Really?

[Duifang]

*******

Edited September 15, 2008 by Duifang

[Hawksblood]

Greetings. I would like to say all teachings are different and all teachings are the same. If you have something to give out you give it out. If you want something you look and find it. If it is not want you want you walk away. If a teachers respects his student he respects himself. If a student respects his teacher he respects him self. If ego is a part of any of it you are not where you think you are. That goes for the best to the worst. I listen and very seldom write anything but to see such petty stuff going on is very sad. We are all here to learn but we are not all here to attack each other. I have been with Max for awhile and studied mostly with Richard If I did not get what I needed I would leave. In peace. Nobody will ever really be right the same as nobody will ever be wrong. Until we realize we can only give what we think we know we won't have to say anything is really better then something else. The old saying if the shoe fits wear it and if doesn't fit you it will fit someone else. T

[Dog]

[daoian]

whew! theres a lot of posts on this... ok...

 

literal definitions:

qi = energy, spirit, steam

qi shin = energetic spirit being

qi-m = steam from boiling rice

yong-qi = spirit of courage

 

nae = internal

nae jang = internal vital organs

nae yong = internal meaning

nae chi = internal (no external visible or audible) energy

 

shim jang = heart

joong shim = central message

 

wei = external; perimeter

 

so...

 

qi gong = cultivation of energy (internal or externally visible)

nae gong = externally unmeasurable practice of dedication

wei gong = external practice (superficial forms practice or weight lifting)

shim gong = spiritual chi mastery practice

 

If you progress, weigong can become qigong can become neigong can become shimgong

[Kundaolinyi]

I have to admit, it seems like it's always vague answers to a question like the one from the original poster, no matter where you go.

 

I guess I can do my best to describe some of the 'internal work' I've been practicing, although I'm not sure if it is technically 'nei gong'.

 

To start with, one of the most important practices for any gong is learning 'internal movement'. Internal movement, as I practice, has to do with movements of the body that do no require measurable external movement. Such movements on the more obvious level are things like-

 

1. Opening and folding a joint, so that the tendons slip between it. An obvious example would be the hips and shoulders, which are capable of exaggerated opening.

 

Less obvious-

 

2. Subtle movements of physical structures within the fascia. An example of this would be in the case of packing/wrapping the organs with Iron Shirt packing breathing. In this case, internal pressure PSI from the lungs presses downward (rather than expanding the rib cage). The pressure must be accommodated for, and thus the organs and fascia slide into position so that the pressure (PSI) can join with the same path of least resistance designed for the weight of the body, and then connects with the ground reaction force. The pressure from the lungs is very similar to the weight of the body, in terms of energy type, and thus they share the same path to the ground. Even more subtle movements, yet, can be achieved, even movement of the brain structures, but that requires chain reaction, because the brain doesn't have direct movers.

 

Internal movement is a chain reaction process, in which the entire body moves together. Like gears, if you move one part of the body internally, the rest of the 'gears' must move with it. The internal movement should ultimately align the body for maximal structural advantage, and energy transfer (like the PSI from the lungs and gravity).

 

Eventually, parts of the body that cannot normally be moved at will, (like the brain), can be moved by principal of the body's 'gears' and energy transfer. Example-

 

1. If a 'externally trained person' spreads his fingers quite aggressively, the tension will collect at a joint. Once the joints are opened up, however, the tension can be transferred through the entire limbs. Using this tension, and postural mechanics, the tension can then be transferred to open the bones of the skull, and even to align the structures of the brain according to the natural alignment desired. Of course, there are many sources of energy aside from just muscle tension, but even muscle tension can be used to aid internal mechanics.

 

Why would someone want to move and align the skull and brain? For starters, it's really difficult to feel or see inside the body, and know what's going on when utilizing internal movement. Aligning the brain in specific ways makes certain nerve connections more viable. Every time you learn something, new nerve connections and patterns are created and made habitual with practice. When a person wants to achieve something like 'seeing inside the body', this same principal is used. The nerves in the body gradually become more sensitive to internal movement, and the practitioner moves in accordance with this process. Body mechanics then becomes not only about muscular efficiency, but also efficiency for specific nerve patterns.

 

But to go from seeing inside the body from feeling? More complicated nerve patterns are required, and thus greater alignment of the physical structures surrounding the upper dantien are required as well. New nerve connections that link the sense of 'feel' part of the brain to the 'visualization' part of the brain are established, as well as linking the 'visualization' part of the brain with the 'visual' part of the brain.

 

Once a greater perception of the inner body is established, greater internal movement can also be established, and more subtle energies can be worked with.

 

The principals of alchemy are important as well, which guide internal movement, nervous system output, chemical/hormone transmutation into brain chemistry, and other such physical processes. These physical processes also interact with the non-physical. Qi can be thought of as potential matter, and matter as potential qi. Matter itself is an illusion. Each organ in the body has it's own vibrational frequency that can be categorized into 'elements'. The total sum of these vibrational frequencies should always equal neutral, once alchemy has organized each frequency in their respective places -( to put things stupidly simple). The total sum, the neutral frequency should = what you have running through you're meridians. Qi.

 

Of course, internal movement, sensitivity, transmutation, balance... etc... These things all work together and build off each other, and in turn also each require more of each other to perpetuate. In the end, even internal end external exchange at the upper dantien, just like the two sides exchange at the lower, and top to bottom exchange at the mid. After that, there is no separation between qigong and neigong, internal and external practice. A guy can pick up a barbell and lift weights, a seemingly external exercise, but using pure internal mechanics and energy principals.

 

 

 

Damn, that was long, and I covered so little I did my best to put it in wester terms, but I just don't know how to fully explain the process of alchemy, especially not in a short post like this. ..Nor can I explain the subtle process of brain mechanics, and connecting brain mechanics to the body mechanics, and brain alchemy with the body alchemy. The entire thing is qigongs connecting to qigons, and neigons connecting to neigongs.

 

I didn't even start about the eyes and brain, Heaven/Earth Spirit/Flesh. Sheesh.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Kundaolinyi