Most people misunderstand what Atman means

[doc benway]

I agree that the absolute is not to be conceived simply as space.

We use three terms also - Bön, Rigpa, and Tsal

Bön is ultimate truth and implies enduring and indestructible, not so different from sat. Not just what things occur in but what (or whom) they occur to, as you point out. Space can be a very useful term here, not just physical space but personal space. in Bön and Buddhist circles that space also implies the empty nature.

Rigpa is the quality of self-knowing that is inseparable from that "space' or Bön

Tsal is the dynamic energy, the infinite potential which is often referred to as warmth or bliss.

 

 

[Jeff]

14 hours ago, Creation said:

...

 

Now, to this humble sadhaka who has absolutely no realization, the lesson here is just "keep your mind open, don't fixate on any view".  Which, of course, also means not focusing on emptiness as a view.

 

Excellent point... as the mind is very tricky and tends to find what it looks for...

[Jeff]

17 minutes ago, steve said:

I agree that the absolute is not to be conceived simply as space.

We use three terms also - Bön, Rigpa, and Tsal

Bön is ultimate truth and implies enduring and indestructible, not so different from sat. Not just what things occur in but what (or whom) they occur to, as you point out. Space can be a very useful term here, not just physical space but personal space. in Bön and Buddhist circles that space also implies the empty nature.

Rigpa is the quality of self-knowing that is inseparable from that "space' or Bön

Tsal is the dynamic energy, the infinite potential which is often referred to as warmth or bliss.

 

How is enduring and indestructible different then permanent? And how is ultimate different than without a second?

[dwai]

3 hours ago, steve said:

I agree that the absolute is not to be conceived simply as space.

We use three terms also - Bön, Rigpa, and Tsal

Bön is ultimate truth and implies enduring and indestructible, not so different from sat. Not just what things occur in but what (or whom) they occur to, as you point out. Space can be a very useful term here, not just physical space but personal space. in Bön and Buddhist circles that space also implies the empty nature.

Rigpa is the quality of self-knowing that is inseparable from that "space' or Bön

Tsal is the dynamic energy, the infinite potential which is often referred to as warmth or bliss.

 

 

So Sat Chit Ananda?  

 

[doc benway]

30 minutes ago, dwai said:

So Sat Chit Ananda?  

 

 

Funny how that works...

[doc benway]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

How is enduring and indestructible different then permanent? And how is ultimate different than without a second?

 

Exactly

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

So Sat Chit Ananda?

 

Hi dwai,

 

Please enlighten a little on Sat Chit Ananda in the context of this thread. Thank you.

 

- LimA

Edited December 12, 2017 by Limahong

[dwai]

4 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

HI dwai,

 

Please enlighten a little on Sat Chit Ananda in the context of this thread. Thank you.

 

- LimA

 

[Jonesboy]

Is void the same as emptiness?

[Jeff]

20 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

HI dwai,

 

Please enlighten a little on Sat Chit Ananda in the context of this thread. Thank you.

 

- LimA

 

It is the definition of Atman. Here you go...

 

I am of the nature of consciousness.
I am made of consciousness and bliss.
I am nondual, pure in form, absolute knowledge, absolute love.
I am changeless, devoid of desire or anger, I am detached.
I am One Essence, unlimitedness, utter consciousness.
I am boundless Bliss, existence and transcendent Bliss.
I am the Atman, that revels in itself.
I am the Sacchidananda that is eternal, enlightened and pure.

— Tejobindu Upanishad, 3.1-3.12 (Abridged)

[Jeff]

52 minutes ago, steve said:

 

Exactly

 

Wow. Not the response I would have guessed.  

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

 

Wow. Not the response I would have guessed.  

 

I find it best to not limit myself too much by dogma

[thelerner]

On 10/9/2017 at 4:59 PM, 3bob said:

maybe one being out of a billion of us are fully Self-Realized and walking around that way 24/7 so to speak

 

On 10/9/2017 at 6:53 PM, Bindi said:

 

I think your one in a billion figure is a tad optimistic

 

It's true and I'm always looking around for one of the other 6 to high five and say Yeah, we did it. 

[3bob]

1 hour ago, thelerner said:

 

It's true and I'm always looking around for one of the other 6 to high five and say Yeah, we did it. 

 

well even if there are 7 of them there is still only one in all of us...

[doc benway]

A few more words about space...

 

I don’t use it so much to denote a quantity, a region, a location, emptiness, or even a vast expanse. Certainly not to define any particular spiritual concept. 

 

It’s an instruction - be open, unrestricted, ... give space to another, make space in your life. Allow, release, host... Be like the open sky, spotless, leave it as it is. It’s a single, elegant, and sophisticated instruction that points out the view, meditation, conduct, and fruition in my tradition of practice. It really clicked for me in a practical sense, we all resonate with different clues of course so take it or leave it as you will.

 

It’s a description - many have meditation experience that is very close to that limitless, unborn consciousness. The experience is timeless, boundless, and perfectly aware. The experience of pure awareness in deep sleep or deep meditation. Space is a very good description of that experience in so many ways.

 

It’s also a feeling created when the observer rests - there is a freshness, an authenticity that can only be there when the one who interferes is not. Resting creates that space which facilitates connection (dissolution of subject/object). If something occupies that space, the connection is lost.

 

Just thought that may help help me communicate better. I’m not well read enough to use the right words and we wouldn’t agree on them all that often anyway.

 

[C T]

Spaciousness points to a neutral position - that's why it became such a prominent conceptual tool in the 3rd turning. 

 

In the 2nd turning, the emphasis was mostly on equanimity, both as a means of practice that lead to the development of wisdom and compassion, and also as the fruit when wisdom & compassion is integrated into's one's path. In this sense, its a pathless path because the map and destination is essentially not-two. 

 

The 1st turning was mostly focussed on personal effort to develop mental and physical pacification through the assimilation of dharma study together with vipassana and shamatha meditation. 

[dwai]

5 hours ago, C T said:

Spaciousness points to a neutral position - that's why it became such a prominent conceptual tool in the 3rd turning. 

 

In the 2nd turning, the emphasis was mostly on equanimity, both as a means of practice that lead to the development of wisdom and compassion, and also as the fruit when wisdom & compassion is integrated into's one's path. In this sense, its a pathless path because the map and destination is essentially not-two. 

 

The 1st turning was mostly focussed on personal effort to develop mental and physical pacification through the assimilation of dharma study together with vipassana and shamatha meditation. 

Advaita Vedanta follows a similar course. Antahkaranasuddhi comes first in the form of shravana (reading/hearing the jnana), manana (contemplation on the jnana) and nidhidhyasna (constant remembrance/meditation, abiding in the I AM).

 

Seva (service) comes next (unconditional service as a path of Karma yoga - for each individual seva is different).

 

With these two, arises a cessation of "Do-ership" and complete dissolution of the "i" in the form of direct realization of the fact that the mind and ego arise and cease in Pure Awareness, as does everything else. And then it's back to Seva again.