Are Dreams Perception?

[Lost in Translation]

I was going to write about perception and knowing, but I got distracted with dreams. So, here goes:

 

Are dreams perception? For example, I see; I hear; I feel; and these are accepted as valid (as can be) perceptions of external (whatever that means) reality (if such a thing exists). But what about dreams? Are dreams a perception of reality? If so, then how? If not, then why?

[silent thunder]

all my life

the unshakable sense

that one moment

 

 

I will awaken within 'reality'

 

in a

similar manner

 

 

lucid

to how I have become                         within the dream state

lucid

 

 

on a

 

 

multitude

of

occasions.

[Marblehead]

Our dreams are real for us, but only us, while dreaming.  And they sometimes extend into physical reality, for example, sleep walkers.

 

Our brain can do some really strange things at times.

 

[Aaron]

I believe dreams were the key to the rise of non-duality, an understanding that perception doesn't necessarily equate to reality and that reality may be something greater than what our physical senses can perceive. To say that dreams are not perception is like saying there is no sound because you are deaf and can not hear it. If you're deaf that may be true for you, but the majority will tell you otherwise, just as the dreamer will tell you that while they were dreaming it was quite real, even if it was all but a dream. In the end perception is the key, when we can escape perception and live in the moment, then the necessity of perception as a means to understand what is, is left behind and we can finally become free. Eternity exists within each moment. 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Aaron

[Archnel]

I personally think dreams are a sort of "perception". Possibly not of any external reality, as I think you may be looking for with your question. But more of an internal reality. To me, they represent the sides of us that we can't conscious can't immediately perceive, down in our unconscious. They give insights into our deeper feelings, thoughts, motives, etc. They're just as a much a part of us as anything we know about ourselves, whether we like it or not

[s1va]

Dreams are perception to me.  So, is the external world that we see during the waking time.  From the standpoint of the perceiver, these two seem to be the same.  Then comes the question, what is the difference between the dream and the waking state?  

 

Here are the differences, I perceive.  The experience in the waking state seems to have more clarity and detail compared to the dream state.  For instance, I don't know if people can eat, taste or smell in dreams the same way as we do in the waking state.  I can't.  The big difference, I would say is the perceived continuity, we have different dreams every night, the waking state seems to continue from where it left off before sleep.

 

I wonder if we have only one dream if we go to sleep every night, that continues where it left off like the waking state.  What would really be the difference between a dream and the waking state?  Which one would we call dream and which one as reality??

[silent thunder]

Waking life and dreaming seem to mirror each other and seem inexoribly linked to me.

 

My earliest memory is of a dream.  Before I knew what dreams were, as a toddler, I had a dream so horrific, so real, it caused my awareness to snap out of my body in my desperate desire to escape the scenario.  That laid a foundation for always having a suspicion that 'waking life' is not awake at all most of the time.  Our lives are rounded with a sleep and we sleep through our waking.  This is why certain moments of life stand out so much... when clarity and awareness pierce the slumber and we experience that 'aha!' of true wakefulness. 

 

Humans seem prewired to drop into trance and hypnosis as their default state.

 

Waking life and Dreaming mirror each other, to me it's like when I am in the water and my eyes are above the water, or below the water.  I also find myself wondering... when in a dream of climbing a tree... what is the tree made of that I can so clearly feel under my fingers as I climb... in fact... what are my fingers made of in the dream?

 

Also, I have moments of clarity that arise seemingly spontaneously in waking life, where in midstep while walking down the street, my awareness will suddenly 'come awake' and I look around rather stunned at the reality of the world... where before my body was walking about, yet awareness and mind were not in the body.

 

Really intriguing topic. 

[silent thunder]

Another very intriguing aspect to the perception of dreams and 'reality', I've also been marking how becoming aware in 'real life' as a child exactly mirrors my experiences becoming lucid in a dreams.

 

I do not become lucid before my dreams start.  I've heard some folks do, I haven't experienced this myself.  When lucidity arises in the dream state, the dream is already in process and something within the dream environment triggers my awareness to become conscious that I am participating in a dream.

 

It was the same way in my 'waking life' childhood.  I don't recall the start of this life.  Somewhere between the ages of 2 and 4 I became aware of my life in what feels like the exact same manner I become lucid in dreams. 

 

This conversation has reminded me of a film I love on this topic.  Waking Life.  Time to pull that off the shelf and revisit it.

[Small Fur]

On 10/16/2017 at 0:15 PM, Lost in Translation said:

I was going to write about perception and knowing, but I got distracted with dreams. So, here goes:

 

Are dreams perception? For example, I see; I hear; I feel; and these are accepted as valid (as can be) perceptions of external (whatever that means) reality (if such a thing exists). But what about dreams? Are dreams a perception of reality? If so, then how? If not, then why?

 

 In summary, yes, dreams are not only a perception of reality, they are actually a reality. And, reality is not real.  To expound...

 

The state of dreaming is the process of perceiving various dimensions of realities simultaneously interacting on a single plane, of which none of the realities are 'real'.
 
This is also true of the 'awoken-dream' state which superficially appears to have a more singular and linear dimension of 'reality'.  In the awoken state our consciousness's perceptual access is altered to a different frequency that operates on a similarly parralel plane of reality as in dream, but that makes things appear more finite or discrete . Thus, most are incapable of perceiving the various, simultaneous interacting dimensions in their daily wakeful life, though it is nonetheless fundamentally occuring, even if in a different configuration of time-space.
 
However, all states of formed reality are actually qualities of mirage,  so existentially speaking, there is essentially no difference between the types of illusions. And yet, the properties of each dimension of consciousness have different principles that govern specific effects, all of which are still palpably perceivable and appear to have different laws of tangibly perceived consequence. Thus, it is that dream states, like wakefulness, are also realities in effect.
 
 
I realize this is a complex topic regarding dimensions of consciousness, dimensions of realities, their interactions and also their entire illusions as reality; but I hope this little summary of clarification helps illuminate not only the condition people are 'consciously' experiencing but also indirectly provides clarity to otherwise poetic seeming spiritual terminology that is too often misunderstood (ie. such as the concepts of reality and non-reality).

Edited October 22, 2017 by Small Fur

[doc benway]

On 10/16/2017 at 3:15 PM, Lost in Translation said:

I was going to write about perception and knowing, but I got distracted with dreams. So, here goes:

 

Are dreams perception? For example, I see; I hear; I feel; and these are accepted as valid (as can be) perceptions of external (whatever that means) reality (if such a thing exists). But what about dreams? Are dreams a perception of reality? If so, then how? If not, then why?

 

My perspective -

In the waking dream, perception is related to stimulation of the sense organs which in turn results in activation of the associated regions of the brain which is where the experience "exists." In the sleeping dream, the sense organs are bypassed but the associated brain regions are similarly active. 

 

In terms of what is real, it is all a matter of perspective. During the non-lucid, sleeping dream the experience is considered to be real. When we awaken from sleep, the dream experience is reframed as an illusion. During the waking dream, the experience is similarly considered to be real. When we awaken from life (whether into a higher level of consciousness during this life or into the bardo and beyond), the waking dream experience is similarly reframed as illusion. 

 

All of these things, and more, are in the purview of dream and sleep practices. One of the methods is to constantly remind oneself throughout the day that "this is a dream" at a very deep level. Over time the distinction between sleeping and waking dreams becomes less rigid. Marvelous practices with enormous benefits!

[Tung]

Reading and thinking about this ,I get the idea that the consciouses is a construction made out of many parts of the mind.

 

That would explain why it can alter its perception, as in dreaming and hypnosis the parts making up contentiousness is  altered, one part that is tuned out its the reality check so things in the dream state is perceived as real. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by Tung