玄牝之門The secret door

[awaken]

玄牝之門，是天地根

 

The secret door is the root of the heaven and earth.

 

The secret door is the basis of the dao.

 

專氣致柔，能嬰兒乎

 

Concentrating one's attention on Chi. Can you become as soft as a baby?

Concentrating one's attention on Chi. Can you become a baby?

 

We can see that LaoZi has the different appraisals in these two ways.

 

But people are still chasing the MCO.

 

 

[awaken]

The most important part in dandao is not MCO.

We begin our training from knowing what is Yin-Yan.

 

Yan is the raising of Chi.

Yin is the hinding of chi. Where is the chi hiding? 

The Chi goes deeper when we get into Yin. So we can not feel the exit of the chi and feel sleepy.

We should not stop our training when the Chi in Yan is gone. We should know the whole process of Yin-Yan and let the Chi go deeper with our consciousness.

 

[awaken]

The line between Yin and Yan is self-conciousness.

We call it 識神. 

When Yan is the main role, 識神 is working.

When Yin is the main role, 識神 is not working.

Therefore, to understand 識神 is very important.

We should not only understand  識神 but also know it directly from your meditation.

Edited October 23, 2017 by awaken

[thelerner]

Very interesting.   Can't help thinking I'm losing part of the meaning due to my lack of Chinese.  Is 識神 self-consiousness? 

 

Could you repeat the above without using Chinese characters?  I find the concept that self-consciousness being the line between yin and yan fascinating. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by thelerner

[Mudfoot]

On 2017-10-22 at 8:29 AM, awaken said:

The most important part in dandao is not MCO.

 

You disagree with this then? The last sentence. 

 

[exorcist_1699]

Micro cosmic circulation has become  so famous  ,  so dominant only in  recent centuries , partly because of the influence  of  the Wu-Liu School ,partly because of the fact that   Du and Ren channels are likely  the main paths where qi will flow once we have accumulated enough of it : It  goes upwards to our head  from the bottom ,  then downwards to  our abdomen..( Note that the said  direction is only true to men , not  necessary to women);

 

Please pay attention  to the famous saying if you prefer  to follow the  way of MCO :

 

"氣滿督自開" 

 

"Once qi is full , the Dun channel will  naturally open to you "

 

So it is not open by our deliberate effort , our lead of it.

 

Also  notice  that there are  differences between TCM and Taoist alchemical idea on this issue : From TCM's point of view ,of course, qi is always flowing  along our  Du and Ren channels , otherwise we can't  even sit or stand straight ( old people who get their  crooked backs is because of their deficient qi not rising high enough...) , despite the fact  it  is something we  are unconscious of ; on the other hand , in Taoist alchemy  :  1)  what we are talking about is something we consciously initialize  , yet we should avoid ourselves  from using or overusing  our mind to enhance it . 2)The  post-heavenly qi  that runs along the channels ,dealed with by the TCM doctors for curing diseases , is only a medium , what Taoists target at is the pre-heavenly one.

 

Edited October 27, 2017 by exorcist_1699

[awaken]

Ren du MCO is for chi.

But the most important part of dandao is 玄關 the secret door, not chi.

[awaken]

The real MCO is very different from the MCO powered by breathing.

 

I experienced both.

 

That is why I suggest that people to give up the fake MCO.

 

Following the real Yin-Yan, then you can get the real MCO.

 

If you get both MCO, you will understand what I am talking about.

[exorcist_1699]

As many people follow the most common method of focusing their mind on the abdomen to mobilize  and accumulate qi  , another important reason why MCC seems so necessary is that the more  jing and qi they accumulate , the more a pressure they bear  to  release them; so not doing the MCC means they will definite lose it in whatsoever status :  Either in awaken status under some excuse or  in their dreams . And, unable to accumulate certain amount of qi , there is no way of talking about opening the "Magic Doorway" . On the other hand ,doing the MCC makes the accumulated jing and qi , now likely in some kind of hot, ball-shaped stuff, no longer  staying at that place so vulnerable .

 

Why the Buddhists don't talk about this  so clearly crucial issue  in  Taoist alchemy ,but  laugh at it or even look down on Taoism because of it ? I think likely it is because some of them think that their at-one-stroke-entering-into-deep-mindlessness way ,comparing to  Taoist   MCC treatment ,can solve the issue more thoroughly(?) 

 

Or it is Taoist MCC treatment more practical  ?

 

Anyway, although lower abdomen is the area where we can get our qi easier, it doesn't necessary mean it is the only place inevitable to start  with  . Based on Taoist theory, qi  is everywhere,so theoretically speaking you can start from anywhere ,even  outside of the physical body ; in that case,  the effects & troubles   you get will be very different from 
following the MCC's  .

 

[awaken]

What is MCC?

 大周天？

 

The turth is that we don't need a lot of Qi to open 大周天.

 

We just need the right direction.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by awaken

[blue eyed snake]

I think he means micro cosmic circulation with the abbreviation MCC

( my sifu call it small cosmic circulation, means just the same)

 

the words orbit and circulation both mean: going round and round and round in the same groove.

 

I'm taught not to ' do'  the MCO, after a time it just began streaming/flowing by itself, a very strange feeling it was.

 

I wonder what the secret door is

[KuroShiro]

1 hour ago, blue eyed snake said:

I'm taught not to ' do'  the MCO, after a time it just began streaming/flowing by itself, a very strange feeling it was.

 

 

Natural way seems to be the best way. Do you feel it 24/7 once it starts?

[Wu Ming Jen]

The ‘Palace of Life’, the ‘Furnace of Kun’, i.e. the furnace of smelting, ‘the Gate of Existence’, the ‘Secret Door’, they are refer to the same place. People can rely on the True Intention of their thoughts and the Original Spirit and tie up the Mind Horse and lock up the Heart Monkey, right here and right now. Retrieve and bring back the ‘Palace of Life’ and one can transcend life, grasp death and open the ‘Gate of Life’. In the center of these upper two orifices below the heart and above the kidneys, there is also one orifice nurturing the embryo. It is the place for nourishing Original Qi. This is the reason for the existence of the ‘Cavern of the Void’, a place without materiality, the ‘Cave of the Emptiness’. Therefore the human body’s upright centre, which is its precise centre, is below the heart and above the navel. It is where the ‘Yellow Court’ is located, i.e. Spleen and Stomach, and it is called the Middle Cinnabar Field.

These therefore are all the human body’s orifices and barrier openings.

[Mudfoot]

4 hours ago, exorcist_1699 said:

 

Why the Buddhists don't talk about this  so clearly crucial issue  in  Taoist alchemy ,but  laugh at it or even look down on Taoism because of it ?

 

The only buddhist method based on energy I am familiar with work with the right and left side channels and the central channel rather than the MCO. 

[awaken]

The real MCO will open the central channel.

 

The central channel is the secret door. They are the same. 

 

The daoist is the same with the buddist.They just have different view.

[blue eyed snake]

5 minutes ago, awaken said:

The real MCO will open the central channel.

 

The central channel is the secret door. They are the same. 

 

 

yes, that's how it happened

[Emera]

The mysterious gate, the secret door 玄關. Currently studying Taoist Yoga. Your words help me greatly, Awaken.

On 10/30/2017 at 3:28 AM, awaken said:

The real MCO is very different from the MCO powered by breathing.

 

I experienced both.

 

That is why I suggest that people to give up the fake MCO.

 

Following the real Yin-Yan, then you can get the real MCO.

 

If you get both MCO, you will understand what I am talking about.

Are you talking about the one with prenatal breath or no breath?

 

"Behind the mysterious gate 玄關 and before the spirit of the valley (ku Shen)in the zu qiao 祖窍 is true nature (Chen hsin) which is the source of breath (chen hsi). Ordinary (post-natal) breathing cannot reach the zu qiao to return to the source of true breath, but the immortal breath can. This immortal breath (hidden in the zu qiao) will not scatter away when ordinary breathing is well regulated. When qi returns to the original ocean (its source) life becomes boundless."

Edited November 2, 2017 by Emera

[awaken]

1. There are also two prenatal breathing. One is natural. One is man-made.

Natural prenatal breathing make real MCO. Man-made prenatal breathing make fake MCO.

 

2. I don't quiet understand you. I try to translate the post.

 玄關之後，祖竅裡的谷神之前是真性，真性的來源是真息，凡息不能開啓祖竅，但是胎息可以開啓祖竅，藏在祖竅裡面的胎息不會散開，當凡息調整的時候。當氣回到源頭的時候，生命變得沒有疆界。

 

I don't use 祖竅 this concept.

 

I use 玄關 only. 谷神 is not 玄關. 谷神 is more deeper than breath, even true breath. breath is very basic. True breathe is very basic, too. When you can open 玄關 easily. Ture breathe become very basic. True breathe belongs to last stage.

 

I have observed breathe for many years. Breathe is just for beginning. When you can open 玄關 easily. You will give up breathe in a few minutes.

 

After Chi is 玄關. That is another world.

 

 

 

[awaken]

When we can open the secret door easily and we stay in the secret door for a long time, it is not easy for us to make dreams. 

We barely have dreams in the stage.

 

But if we keep our training on breathe, we still have dreams.

[joeblast]

2 hours ago, awaken said:

When we can open the secret door easily and we stay in the secret door for a long time, it is not easy for us to make dreams. 

We barely have dreams in the stage.

 

But if we keep our training on breathe, we still have dreams.

That just means you havent completed training your breath   Times when I am in good training...do not move a muscle and have meditative breath all night (my ex told me that's how she knew if my training was in good shape or not.)  Maybe average 40-60 second breaths for meditative session for a couple months, and that will be about where this sort of thing will happen.

 

They key is not using anywhere that air actually touches when considering how the air should be moved through the system.  its simply most efficient to use the diaphragm, and to make sure the tendon attachments are focused on when drawing air, attached to the front of the spine.  The qihai and huiyin fulfill the compression of the gut which increases the energetic output of the practice, making greater gains to gung.  After depth is developed, the duration of breath able to be comfortably achieved is partly a function of the gung built.  Do something that hurts or detracts from gung at this point and you necessarily and directly affect the duration of breath able to be comfortably sustained.

 

The olfactory nerve has a 40 cycles/sec resonance that is an energy-feedback wiggle-potential created by this action.  The amount of this can be considered resistance in the context of  the ohm's law equation.  All sensate input can, to an extent, but the breath is the loudest signal that we have the most direct control over, barring actual normal daily movement.  The energy potential generated utilized by this neural processing does not simply disappear when the cortex processes the current air-flow-state - it takes part in the dynamic dance of the neural pathways.  Without getting too deeply into those weeds, a simplified observation of what happens is that the more sensate input is processed, the higher propensity for random thought to manifest when there is presently none - a sort of neural crosstalk takes place and the bubbles of thoughtform appear and percolate up to higher brain centers that trigger the random thought.  (How much time spent daydreaming vs how much time spent focusing are also contributors here...)

 

The only way to achieve this is through time and practice.  When the sense nerve dynamic is sufficiently enough and regularly enough calmed, then there is some further refinement to disconnect any feelings of air; after that, a disconnect of the motions of breathing from any concept of moving air - this is a sort of breathless state, but in reality it is not, its just a very well harmonized set of motions becoming programmed into the medulla - this gets borne out by there being meditative breath, no movement or dreams, while sleeping.  Time itself gets a little funny, sleep does not feel long, meditation does not feel long, cant tell the difference all that much between 20 minutes and 2 hours.

 

Once all the aforementioned is completed, then here's where there is the concept of a thoughtform bubble.  It forms as a soda bubble forms on the side of a glass, detaches and drifts upward and becomes a thought.  With more training, then the bubble can be discerned from its energetic imprint, and the phenomena is now like squeezing a balloon in one's hand, until a pocket of air forms in some location and bulges out the side - pop!  Then after a while, one can learn to reverse the energy-phase of the operation and re-absorb the forming and protruding thoughtform-bubble into the resonance of the niwan, as relaxing the fist with the balloon in it, the bubble does not pop.  The mind and body are at a very stable, efficient, superlatively calm state.  At this point, 3+ "sessions" a day, shorter during the day, exercise, long session at night. 

 

Attacking this problem at the neural level makes these things not just repeatable, but a daily phenomenon.  Pedal bike, coast, pedal bike, coast   Stop pedaling, you slow down.  Road of life gets steep...pedal, pedal. 

 

A little roundabout, but I had to refute the dream/breathwork correlation

[awaken]

I have wasted twenty years in training breathe. 

You want to waste your time. That is your choice. That is ok for me. 

 

The root of dan dao is not breathe. We can see it very clearly in dao de jin. I don’t think you are more right than Lao Zi. 

 

 

[awaken]

Breathe is the door to make chi. 

Chi is the door to open the secret door. 玄關

The secret door is the door to make 金丹. 

 

 

 

[awaken]

I write this post to tell you not to waste too much time in breathe or MCO. We should get into the secret door as soon as possible. But I know it is not easy because many masters earn money by teaching chi. They will tell you to stop at the stage of chi. They don’t know what is the secret door. They come from the chi gong hot. We can not blam these chi masters. This is the only thing they can do. 

 

But we don’t need to be limited by them. We can go the right road. We don’t need to waste too much time in the body, chi. Chi is the door, not a root. 

[joeblast]

9 hours ago, awaken said:

I have wasted twenty years in training breathe. 

You want to waste your time. That is your choice. That is ok for me. 

 

The root of dan dao is not breathe. We can see it very clearly in dao de jin. I don’t think you are more right than Lao Zi. 

 

I'll give you a pass if english isnt your first language....but it doesnt look like you learned humility in those twenty years as well as not having worked your breath sufficiently enough to understand my post.  I didnt say breath was the be all end all of cultivation - if those years were wasted for you, that's you and your teacher's fault, not breathing's fault.

 

What nerve!  Ya try to offer some insight, and are reminded why your journeys have not returned to a certain tea house!

[awaken]

I only have one sentence. If you want to waste your time, that is your choice.  You don't need to try to tell me you are right or wrong. 

And I won't read your post again. Because I don't want to waste my time.

Edited November 3, 2017 by awaken