玄牝之門The secret door

[joeblast]

*chuckles* hey, its not like I was knocking you for tossing out quotes that are totally unbacked by any anecdotal experience that would suggest you're doing anything more than wishfully quoting your teacher and other assorted literature!

 

I was just saying - if you've trained your breath well enough....and I gave personal experiences that told you exactly why what you said was wrong - if you've done your training to a sufficient degree...

 

But please, continue, you're a stellar reflection on your school and teacher.

[Jeff]

9 hours ago, awaken said:

Breathe is the door to make chi. 

Chi is the door to open the secret door. 玄關

The secret door is the door to make 金丹. 

 

 

Thank you for your post. But, I would disagree with your earlier statement where you say the central channel is the secret door. The central channel is opened with chi, it is the basis of the flow with something like the mco. The secret door is the expansion of “polarity” of the flow. For a male, this would be opening the “female energy side”, and why all of the old texts talk about the “mysterious female”. 

 

This can also be seen in the first stage decribed in chapter 28 of the TTC. When you know the strength of man (male chi), you need to know the “female heart” (secret door) to realize the “stream of the universe”.

[awaken]

The central channel you open is not the real central channel. It is the right and left channel. Only the right and the left channel has the feeling of chi. When you still have the feeling of chi. It is impossible to open the channel. Only you get into deep samadhi, you can have the chance to open the central channel.

 

 

[awaken]

There are many layers in secret door. Just like the central channel. They are the same.

 

When you can feel the chi in your central channel, that is the most beginning. You can feel the chi turning, going up....etc. Though these chi moving in your central channel, it is not the real central channel. It is the right and left channels.

 

When you get into Hun-Dun, you begin your second layer of central channel, the secret door. There are three stages in the second layer. In the layer, you don't have any feeling of chi. You don't have any feeling of your body, smell,  sight, listening, and even yourself.

 

The third layers....to be continued. 

[Jeff]

4 minutes ago, awaken said:

The central channel you open is not the real central channel. It is the right and left channel. Only the right and the left channel has the feeling of chi. When you still have the feeling of chi. It is impossible to open the channel. Only you get into deep samadhi, you can have the chance to open the central channel.

 

 

Deep samadhi happens when one goes deeper in consciousness then they have the energy level to support. Such happens at ongoing and different levels for different people. It is not a “level” or new opening in it owns right. It is more like one is climbing a mountain and air is so thin that you (mentally) “pass out”. As one gets used to the level and clears out related issues and fears at that level, one can continue on with the trip.

[awaken]

The third layer is the real central channel, the 虛空玄關竅 the empty stage of secret door.

 

Anyway, anyone who want to know what is the central channel, he need to see light first. Because light is the beginning of the central channel.

[awaken]

When you open your real central channel, you will get into samadhi in a few seconds. You don't need a lot of time to cultivate your chi. When people need a lot of time to cultivate chi to go into samadhi, he must be a beginner.

 

That is why I write so much here. Don't make yourself be a beginner forever. You can make a progress if you do some changes.

[joeblast]

40 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Deep samadhi happens when one goes deeper in consciousness then they have the energy level to support. Such happens at ongoing and different levels for different people. It is not a “level” or new opening in it owns right. It is more like one is climbing a mountain and air is so thin that you (mentally) “pass out”. As one gets used to the level and clears out related issues and fears at that level, one can continue on with the trip.

au contraire, depth is a function of gung - and ohm's law is a major input into the gung equation - "you're not going to go more deeply than you've set yourself up for."  nor does one jump into a true samhadi without actually being in good practice, regardless of what one has cultivated previously.  one should not confuse the void with oblivion.  "mentally passing out" is simply cultivation and awareness faltering.  if the awareness is not cultivated strongly, and kept through sessions, then this is a deviation.

 

most people want to rush past breathwork without cultivating it fully and get on to more energetic things because its boring and there is no realization of the correlation between sensate input and mind noise.  either that or their exposure to technique was just limited, and they wasted a lot of time on it without having any traction, never experiencing the mental solid yang line transforming into the physical yin lines and then back into the yang line in a very physical way.  not all that intuitive that one can receive a metabolic boost from longevity breathing, after all.  but having set this up and seeing the signposts 7 , 8 different chunks of practice time over the years, I can say unequivocally that this is the case, it just requires the proper technique, applied diligently.

 

thus it is that the potent spark of yang arises out of the depths of yin.

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, joeblast said:

au contraire, depth is a function of gung - and ohm's law is a major input into the gung equation - "you're not going to go more deeply than you've set yourself up for."  nor does one jump into a true samhadi without actually being in good practice, regardless of what one has cultivated previously.  one should not confuse the void with oblivion.  "mentally passing out" is simply cultivation and awareness faltering.  if the awareness is not cultivated strongly, and kept through sessions, then this is a deviation.

 

most people want to rush past breathwork without cultivating it fully and get on to more energetic things because its boring and there is no realization of the correlation between sensate input and mind noise.  either that or their exposure to technique was just limited, and they wasted a lot of time on it without having any traction, never experiencing the mental solid yang line transforming into the physical yin lines and then back into the yang line in a very physical way.  not all that intuitive that one can receive a metabolic boost from longevity breathing, after all.  but having set this up and seeing the signposts 7 , 8 different chunks of practice time over the years, I can say unequivocally that this is the case, it just requires the proper technique, applied diligently.

 

thus it is that the potent spark of yang arises out of the depths of yin.

 

My comment around mentally passing out was an analogy related to climbing a mountain, and not having the energy levels to support it. As Awaken has been describing, the secret door has nothing to do with a direct physical process (or Ohms law). Breathing techniques are like using a mantra, they are mind based techniques for quieting the mind. Such is useful for starting chi flows, but not helpful for opening the secret door.

 

In Buddhism, one would use things like deity (or dakini) practices to accomplish the equivalent of the opening (secret door).

[joeblast]

*chuckles*  why'd I log back in here, again?  Certainly not to cast pearls before swine, which is apparently what I'm doing.

 

Direct physical process?  (You're aware that this is a quantum mechanical universe we're immersed in, yes?)  Do you realize that you are basically saying that a foundation isnt useful for building a house?  Does it makse sense that a concrete foundation will be sturdier and last longer than a house on wooden stilts?  Nothing to do with ohm's law, lol. 

 

Well, I'll let you and the angry old woman keep spinning your tires here and keep your context so strict that nothing else can be spoken of no matter how or where it may overlap or contribute towards the goal you're seeking.  I'd be angry if I wasted 20 years on poor technique, too.  The buds of fruit I described shouldnt take more than 3-6 months or so to manifest, if practice is diligent.

[Mudfoot]

Joe,  the fact that the really slow breathing you are talking about disconnects the brains control over the heart and allow the heart intrinsic neural network to take control is probably not significant to everybody. 

 

But it truly sounds like it could have an interesting daoist interpretation. 

 

And that is only one of the major shifts in your nervous system that occurs when you hit one breath per minute. 

 

Or as Bruce Frantzis once said: Breathing is sort of important in Daoist meditation. 

[KuroShiro]

1 hour ago, joeblast said:

The buds of fruit I described shouldnt take more than 3-6 months or so to manifest, if practice is diligent.

 

 

31 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

Joe,  the fact that the really slow breathing you are talking about disconnects the brains control over the heart and allow the heart intrinsic neural network to take control is probably not significant to everybody. 

 

But it truly sounds like it could have an interesting daoist interpretation. 

 

And that is only one of the major shifts in your nervous system that occurs when you hit one breath per minute. 

 

 

Does this breathing practice has anything to do with free-diving practices?

Their heart rate goes to 4-6 beats/min. Not exactly the same as they are holding the breath.

I've read a post here that Master Chunyi Lin's heart once stopped during several min (hours?). Don't know if it was related to any kind of breathing practice.

 

The Classics seem to state that the golden elixir can't be formed through breathing techniques.

 

 

[9th]

1 hour ago, joeblast said:

*chuckles*  why'd I log back in here, again? 

 

?

[Mudfoot]

13 minutes ago, KuroShiro said:

 

The Classics seem to state that the golden elixir can't be formed through breathing techniques.

 

 

No,  probably not. 

But correct breathing might pave the way. 

Or not,  depending on the beliefs of your choosen tradition. 

[Mudfoot]

17 minutes ago, 9th said:

 

?

And the answer you are searching can be found behind door no 3 (or in the moderation logs).

[9th]

Who told you that Im searching for an answer?

[joeblast]

2 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

No,  probably not. 

But correct breathing might pave the way. 

Or not,  depending on the beliefs of your choosen tradition. 

No, it cant

The fruits of conquering this problem as I've described makes the deep states, energy increases to the point of metabolic spark, etc, means that the deep phenomena happen every session.  This sets the stage for the rest of it - how many people reach deep states each night?

 

One can of course choose to ignore it and work strictly in other ways, but then again, what I described is highly efficiency minded like fresh paved track - dirt tracks are fun too, but honestly, it takes more skill and training time to make the turns with much higher speeds on the paved track

 

From the harmonization of the breath comes harmonization of the dantien and niwan, this sets up the entire foundational axis for things to happen.  If teaching this to someone, the breath training should not be made light of.  I understand that people are further or shorter along different paths here, but its not like breath is mutually exclusive with just about anything.  Sessions should begin and end with such harmonizations, but the "meat & potatoes" energypractices are where they are, in their naturally fitting space.

 

The "coefficient of focus" as it were is also an input to the equation on how well the body is programmed with the intentful breathing pattern - the better you pay attention and keep awareness, the more solidly the medulla is imprinted with the pattern you train - and the more strongly and efficiently it carries forth when not actually performing a mindful breathwork exercise.

 

I just softly facepalm when someone tells me such things are useless in a context like this.  Who needs any gung enhancement, after all

 

Because its completely contrary to this - its the foundation of it, its not a waste of time, if done properly.

 

Breathe is the door to make chi. 

Chi is the door to open the secret door. 玄關

The secret door is the door to make 金丹. 

 

[joeblast]

2 hours ago, KuroShiro said:

 

 

 

Does this breathing practice has anything to do with free-diving practices?

Their heart rate goes to 4-6 beats/min. Not exactly the same as they are holding the breath.

I've read a post here that Master Chunyi Lin's heart once stopped during several min (hours?). Don't know if it was related to any kind of breathing practice.

 

The Classics seem to state that the golden elixir can't be formed through breathing techniques.

 

 

It would be absolutely useful for free diving

 

the elixir is a dynamic energypattern configuration, in a sense, and breathing is but a component of it

[Emera]

18 hours ago, awaken said:

Breathe is the door to make chi. 

Chi is the door to open the secret door. 玄關

The secret door is the door to make 金丹. 

Can you talk about 命 and 性 and what you think about it? 

[Emera]

If not the MCO, then we know the main goals below, but what are the minor goals that lead to this? ie. purifying the emotions in the body.

 

Quote

The most important part in dandao is not MCO.

We begin our training from knowing what is Yin-Yan.

 

Yan is the raising of Chi.

Yin is the hinding of chi. Where is the chi hiding? 

The Chi goes deeper when we get into Yin. So we can not feel the exit of the chi and feel sleepy.

We should not stop our training when the Chi in Yan is gone. We should know the whole process of Yin-Yan and let the Chi go deeper with our consciousness.

 

Is there a method?

And is Yan = Yang?

Edited November 3, 2017 by Emera

[Wu Ming Jen]

28 minutes ago, Emera said:

Can you talk about 命 and 性 and what you think about it? 

Is that Chinese for life and sex?

[Emera]

3 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

Is that Chinese for life and sex?

 xD Yes. But it's also used by Qianfeng school for 'Nature' and 'Life' that the cultivation of the MCC is supposed to do.

[Wu Ming Jen]

OK that is better. Just had to clarify, thanks

[Wu Ming Jen]

The marrow pathway is travelling upwards, however is not the meridian pathway. There is a hole in the vertebra, which is the path of internal alchemy. It is connected with the nerve stem, the nerves of the brain and the meridians. It does not exist singly, as the nerve system is like a tree. It is called the ‘Hidden Stream’, the unseen flow of water, also known by the name of the “Yellow River”.  This Yang Qi ascends up this pathway and goes straight above to Spinal Strait behind the Middle Cinnabar Field, as well as opposite the apex of the internal kidneys. It is extremely hard for Qi to ascend to this point. This is called the Spinal Strait Barrier. Furthermore rising to the back of the brain, it is called the Jade Pillow Barrier.
These are the body’s three barriers.

 

 

One unifies with numerals of heaven and earth, therefore the human body is also a miniature version of heaven and earth, a microcosm of the universe. The inside of the navel gate is known by the name of ‘Gate of Existence’. The cutting of the umbilical cord marks the beginning of one’s own life.  In the body there are seven orifices, connecting below with the external kidneys, which are the genitals. The external kidneys therefore are the place where Essence Qi leaves the body. In the middle between the navel and the kidneys is a hole. It is named the ‘Supine Moon Furnace’. It is also referred to as the ‘Sea of Qi’. A little lower, namely 1.2 Chinese inches, is a space. It is called the ‘Flower Pond’. Therefore it is the lower Cinnabar Field where Essence is stored, and the location where medicine is picked, i.e. the place where Qi grows, Original Qi and Original Essence: The ‘Palace of Brightness’ is on the left and the ‘Cavern Chamber’ is on the right. It resembles a Rubik’s cubic, but it is round, not square. It is also the ‘Hole of Emptiness’, a sphere of 1.2 Chinese inches. This location has two orifices: One directly above, connecting with the internal kidneys, one directly below connecting with the Tail Alley or Caudal Funnel.

The center is called: ‘The Mysterious Gate’:

[johndoe2012]

17 hours ago, joeblast said:

*chuckles*  why'd I log back in here, again?  Certainly not to cast pearls before swine, which is apparently what I'm doing.

 

Direct physical process?  (You're aware that this is a quantum mechanical universe we're immersed in, yes?)  Do you realize that you are basically saying that a foundation isnt useful for building a house?  Does it makse sense that a concrete foundation will be sturdier and last longer than a house on wooden stilts?  Nothing to do with ohm's law, lol. 

 

Well, I'll let you and the angry old woman keep spinning your tires here and keep your context so strict that nothing else can be spoken of no matter how or where it may overlap or contribute towards the goal you're seeking.  I'd be angry if I wasted 20 years on poor technique, too.  The buds of fruit I described shouldnt take more than 3-6 months or so to manifest, if practice is diligent.

 

You direct the process with mind, that is the problem.

 

Mind directing things is following thoughts, and will never lead to awakening.