rene Posted October 26, 2017 22 minutes ago, Starjumper said: Nope, I'm seriouser than heck! You'll have to explain that to me because the way it looks to me is that I've been explaining that enlightenment is an experience, something which can happen to people, and he said it's not an experience.... Might be a major misread on your part re one specific aspect: duration. He has said the same things you've said all along... that a 'brief glimpse' aint 'it' - and that some masters self-proclaim after only a glimpse. How is that different from your opinion? 22 minutes ago, Starjumper said: along with a smattering of passive aggressive put downs for anyone that could have - you guessed it, experienced this event. Maybe calling it an event would be more palpable for him, however it's an extended event while the word event implies something brief. What word would you use if experience is so wrong? I've been speaking from experience and he is speaking from where? out his butt? Has he been reading too much Buddhism lately? I don't know, but he certainly does have his opinions, doesn't he? lol like you dont? I didn't see his post as a specific attack on you.... but if you did, if you saw yourself in his words, then ya got something new to ponder, I guess. I could easily be wrong, of course, and Spotless can clarify, or not, as he wishes. All good. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rickie Posted October 26, 2017 13 hours ago, Starjumper said: Oh yes you would. Enlightenment is a sudden and profound shift in your awareness that is unlike anything you would experience otherwise, and this has been written about in some of the descriptions of the experience. It is probably the most amazing thing that a person can experience. It is like flipping a light switch, and the effect lasts for a day or more. As it fades thinking returns and then the harder part starts, something which makes some people go crazy or commit suicide. Warriors will face the music and learn from it, others go to the looney bin. It happened to me so long ago that it has dinosaur shit on it. Am I enlightened now? Hell if I know, fuck if I care. I guess it depends on definitions. I never was interested in enlightenment, which is the right attitude, and I didn't give a damn about it either before or after it happened, but there's no doubt it was a big deal. My teacher, who was so psychic that he could see the future, actually gave me a kind of graduation present when I came to chi kung class the week before it happened, and of course I didn't realize that till after the fact. I guess he just wanted to give me another glimpse of his amazing abilities. I must not be enlightened then. Poor me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ljazztrumpet Posted October 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Rickie said: I must not be enlightened then. Poor me. Lucky you! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lost in Translation Posted October 26, 2017 Enlightenment this, enlightenment that. What are we really talking about? Are we talking about knowledge? Are we talking about happiness? Two very different things. If we are talking about knowledge then what kind? Empirical? Show me the proof! Experiential? I believe you, but accept that you can’t prove anything. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 26, 2017 5 hours ago, Rickie said: I must not be enlightened then. Poor me. Yes, lucky you. If you said you were I would likely ask you to define enlightenment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Lost in Translation said: Enlightenment this, enlightenment that. What are we really talking about? Are we talking about knowledge? Are we talking about happiness? Two very different things. If we are talking about knowledge then what kind? Empirical? Show me the proof! Experiential? I believe you, but accept that you can’t prove anything. Well, this thread is in the "Daoist Discussions" sub-forum so we are authorized to really misunderstand the concept of "enlightenment". 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted October 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Lost in Translation said: Enlightenment this, enlightenment that. What are we really talking about? Are we talking about knowledge? Are we talking about happiness? Two very different things. If we are talking about knowledge then what kind? Empirical? Show me the proof! Experiential? I believe you, but accept that you can’t prove anything. Since this is the Dao Bum, we aren't talking about some new age concepts or a philosophical doctrine......but a realization of the mind..to realize the Tao...the Dharma.... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lost in Translation Posted October 26, 2017 21 minutes ago, Marblehead said: Well, this thread is in the "Daoist Discussions" sub-forum so we are authorized to really misunderstand the concept of "enlightenment". You are right. I forgot where I was. My apologies. Carry on. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, rene said: Might be a major misread on your part re one specific aspect: duration. He has said the same things you've said all along... that a 'brief glimpse' aint 'it' - and that some masters self-proclaim after only a glimpse. How is that different from your opinion? lol like you dont? I didn't see his post as a specific attack on you.... but if you did, if you saw yourself in his words, then ya got something new to ponder, I guess. Opinion? Sorry I don't do no steenking opinions (sometimes I lie). In this case here it's about experiences. I've been known to misread things before so it's possible, but I don't see "brief glimpse" here anywhere, and this is what I was responding to: Quote "A sincere teacher who has experienced Enlightenment" - would be a sincere teacher who has not "experienced Enlightenment. And those who write such things however much they have pedigree do no know what they are talking about. "experiences of Awakening" are not Awakening. And certainly one does not have "experiences of Enlightenment" unless ones definition of Enlightenment is quite shallow in understanding. Including that the first part which he has in quotes is a what I wrote, the rest is negations and insults. That's the kind of thing that jealous little pissants do. Sooo, I remain unconvinced. It does seem that somebody misread something somewhere. Keep working on it. Edited October 26, 2017 by Starjumper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted October 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Starjumper said: I've been known to misread things before so it's possible, but I don't see "brief glimpse" here anywhere, and this is what I was responding to: Including that the first part which he has in quotes is a what I wrote, the rest is negations and insults. Sooo, I remain unconvinced. It does seem that somebody misread something somewhere. Keep working on it. Ah ok, got it. You were going by the words; I was going by the underlying essence. No harm, no foul. (-: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted October 26, 2017 SJ, edit all you'd like; my reply ^^ is keeping your original post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9th Posted October 26, 2017 desire is blind motivation enlightenment is by definition, sight do the math 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rickie Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Marblehead said: Yes, lucky you. If you said you were I would likely ask you to define enlightenment. Good thing then because I can't but if I took a chance at it I'd say clarity but then the question is clarity of what and I'd have to say everything because to say anything else would be too limiting. But what do I know. "I Can See Clearly Now" lyrics Jimmy Cliff Lyrics Play "I Can See Clearly N…" on Amazon Music "I Can See Clearly Now" I can see clearly now the rain is gone. I can see all obstacles in my way. Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind. It's gonna be a bright (bright) bright (bright) sunshiny day. It's gonna be a bright (bright) bright (bright) sunshiny day. Oh, yes I can make it now the pain is gone. All of the bad feelings have disappeared. Here is that rainbow I've been praying for. It's gonna be a bright (bright) bright (bright) sunshiny day. (ooh...) Look all around, there's nothing but blue skies. Look straight ahead, there's nothing but blue skies. I can see clearly now the rain is gone. I can see all obstacles in my way. Here is that rainbow I've been praying for. It's gonna be a bright (bright) bright (bright) sunshiny day. It's gonna be a bright (bright) bright (bright) sunshiny day. It's going to be a bright (bright) bright (bright) sunshiny day. Yeah, hey, it's gonna be a bright (bright) bright (bright) sunshiny day. Edited October 27, 2017 by Rickie 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted October 27, 2017 1 hour ago, C T said: Very cool vid, C T, thanks for posting that. Question, using the vid's ideas - Does enlightenment, as being free from delusions, also include the delusion of being free from delusion? Not trying to circle jerk here... just like with the multi-legged centipede - sometimes the last leg, the last step, is letting go of even that! I dont make my ego important enough to worry about... and since I'm not Buddhist or Daoist or any other -ist I enjoy reading/watching/hearing about others' ideas. (-: 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9th Posted October 27, 2017 the most formal problem in this kind of question is a fundamental misunderstanding/misapprehension stemming from a hasty translation (which arent, amirite). the modern idea, concept, and general reference is indicating something traditionally known in sanskrit as "bhodi" however, the probem is that some people are referencing the sanskrit term "nirvana" and that is why there are so many questions surrounding "enlightenment" its all quite simple once you understand the basics of the issue. you know? ... problem solved. move on 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted October 27, 2017 54 minutes ago, rene said: Very cool vid, C T, thanks for posting that. Question, using the vid's ideas - Does enlightenment, as being free from delusions, also include the delusion of being free from delusion? Not trying to circle jerk here... just like with the multi-legged centipede - sometimes the last leg, the last step, is letting go of even that! I dont make my ego important enough to worry about... and since I'm not Buddhist or Daoist or any other -ist I enjoy reading/watching/hearing about others' ideas. (-: I dont know 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted October 27, 2017 19 minutes ago, C T said: I dont know Dang! Figured if anyone did, it'd be you. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted October 27, 2017 12 minutes ago, rene said: Dang! Figured if anyone did, it'd be you. Im only 8th. Incomplete yet. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lost in Translation Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, rene said: Does enlightenment, as being free from delusions, also include the delusion of being free from delusion? Edit: For our non-english native speakers: http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/bingo/ Edited October 27, 2017 by Lost in Translation 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted October 27, 2017 Lost - yeah!!! So clearly Both!! 🎯 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted October 27, 2017 A lack of ist-ness is a firm foundation. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
