Is enlightenment really desirable?

[ljazztrumpet]

2 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

I'm not going to ask how you found this, but ...

Cha! R u kidding? All the cats who don’t believe in enlightenment go there to check out all the people who get way caught up in their egos and proclaim ‘enlightenment’. Check it out man, there’s some funny stories on there! 

 

[Lost in Translation]

9 minutes ago, ljazztrumpet said:

Cha! R u kidding? All the cats who don’t believe in enlightenment go there to check out all the people who get way caught up in their egos and proclaim ‘enlightenment’. Check it out man, there’s some funny stories on there! 

 

 

I will. Thanks.

[Wu Ming Jen]

I found enlightenment in the book section right next to the yoga pants and mats.  I do not see why it is that hard to find.I found it and I was not even looking for enlightenment .

[Lost in Translation]

7 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

I found enlightenment in the book section right next to the yoga pants and mats.  I do not see why it is that hard to find.I found it and I was not even looking for enlightenment .

 

I found it at Lamps Plus!

[rene]

4 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

I found it at Lamps Plus!

[rene]

Quote

Inflammatory post deleted at the poster's request ~ rene

 

Hi xxxxx. You likely missed this, since it was in another thread, so here's a copy for you, and whoever else might have missed it:
 

Quote

 

--------------    MESSAGE FROM STAFF    ---------------

 

It's time to stop the intentionally inflammatory words directed at other members.

 

Make your point on the subject at hand and leave it at that. Your personal opinion of another Bum's character or abilities is not relevant nor contributory to the thread.

 

Fair warning.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------- 

 

 

Thanks in advance for your help with this, and for not underestimating the abilities of 'old women'

 

warmest regards

 

*****

 

Edit to add: After posting the above, our valued member here requested that his post be deleted, which I did. I like that there are many people here who value TDB as a place of very lively discussion and debate - while still being able to maintain a respectful demeanor.

 

Great job, all.

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by rene
Remove member's identity & post, at his request

[allinone]

I saw that post. It was funny.

[allinone]

10 hours ago, rene said:

--------------    MESSAGE FROM STAFF    ---------------

 

It's time to stop the intentionally inflammatory words directed at other members.

 

Make your point on the subject at hand and leave it at that. Your personal opinion of another Bum's character or abilities is not relevant nor contributory to the thread.

 

Fair warning.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------- 

 

can i point it out that this thread headline is inflammatory.

 

"Is enlightenment really desirable?"

 

you can read it in minds voice in different ways. Like its actually then not inflammatory, but is when read in a certain way.

Edited November 16, 2017 by allinone

[allinone]

On ‎15‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 0:27 AM, rene said:

I think that's up to you.

 

Perhaps it's best now to get back on topic, or take a break from this thread so others may continue.

 

i alienate people till i am satisfied. I prefer that activity is not interpreted as poking and insults.

....

forgot to say that with that response you alienate me pretty well. Specially i said things about being friendly.

so i can't talk with you like i belong to the same pack or group with you. So we belong to different groups therefore if i use lecturelike manner then it feels insulty for you.

..

nothing wrong what you do, its just rainy here instead of warm sunny weather. So i start alienate and i get once in a while a sunny day too.

Edited November 16, 2017 by allinone

[allinone]

On ‎14‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 8:26 PM, Stosh said:

Somebody HAS to swing the banhammer , the point is that someone does have that responsibility, not that anyone is perfect. 

 

Usage of banhammer is deva-stating.

[Marblehead]

11 hours ago, rene said:

 

... maintain a respectful demeanor.

 

 

I just wanted to highlight this.

 

[allinone]

6 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I just wanted to highlight this.

 

 

that refers to some effort demanding exercise, you know you need rest for a while.

 

"... maintain a respectful demeanor. "

Edited November 16, 2017 by allinone

[Stosh]

16 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

Usage of banhammer is deva-stating.

Don't make things get that far . It is a downer, to get smacked like that , especially if you enjoy your time here.

If you do value the fun you have , It should indeed make you at least cognizant of where the boundaries are at.

Many times we have seen folks get all defiant at the tiniest of corrections ,

They declare how much this forum is un-important to them , and how they don't care' WHAT any one says,they are not going to guard their tongue' ,

, and I feel  that's bullshit , and childish. If you value this whole thing , you can live with the occasional constraints. Its that simple. This is a little community , in which one best considers everyone ,ANd themself. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Just now, allinone said:

 

that refers to some effort demanding exercise, you know you need rest for a while.

Yeah, I know.  I never suggested that living was easy or that we will always agree with others.

 

But even I, an Anarchist, realize that societies, yes, this is a society, have rules and if we are going to be engaging within that society we must follow the rules of the people of that society.

 

Yes, it is almost time for me to log off and go to my other computer and edit more music.

 

I really don't live here, I just visit frequently.

 

[allinone]

1 minute ago, Stosh said:

Don't make things get that far . It is a downer, to get smacked like that , especially if you enjoy your time here.

If you do value the fun you have , It should indeed make you at least cognizant of where the boundaries are at.

Many times we have seen folks get all defiant at the tiniest of corrections ,

They declare how much this forum is un-important to them , and how they don't care' WHAT any one says,they are not going to guard their tongue' ,

, and I feel  that's bullshit , and childish. If you value this whole thing , you can live with the occasional constraints. Its that simple. This is a little community one best considers everyone ,ANd themself. 

 

A situation where someone uses your pure part towel for dirty parts, comes to my mind reading what you said.

[Stosh]

1 minute ago, allinone said:

 

A situation where someone uses your pure part towel for dirty parts, comes to my mind reading what you said.

That I am excusing a bad thing ? Covering up ? Whitewashing? 

[allinone]

3 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Yeah, I know.  I never suggested that living was easy or that we will always agree with others.

 

But even I, an Anarchist, realize that societies, yes, this is a society, have rules and if we are going to be engaging within that society we must follow the rules of the people of that society.

 

Yes, it is almost time for me to log off and go to my other computer and edit more music.

 

I really don't live here, I just visit frequently.

 

 

Drama isn't allowed, what i mean the thing we did. Its easy to come and take a one part sentence out of it. It is hot topic nowadays, sentences taken out of context. Ok, for me too, its time to make a fire soon.

[allinone]

16 minutes ago, Stosh said:

That I am excusing a bad thing ? Covering up ? Whitewashing? 

 

i refer to the feeling i get when i realize "i am being seen on the level of feet". Other person uses my pure part towel for to purify his/her/it dirty parts. So feeling that feeling i need to make a action to defend my pride.

Edited November 16, 2017 by allinone

[Stosh]

11 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

i refer to the feeling i get when i realize "i am being seen on the level of feet". Other person uses my pure part towel for to purify his/her/it dirty parts. So feeling that feeling i need to make a action to defend my pride.

Oh , May I say you do not need to defend your pride in this case? The mods warn us if we are going too far , and that IF we march blindly forward we will be banned. We cant know exactly where the line is , its drawn by human beings , and so , they do us the honor of telling us when we approach it. You haven't gone too far , you are not banned , and so your honor is intact. Relax move on , and just remain cognizant that there is a limit that they will notify you about. ( In fact , you can be very proud of yourself, 99% of folks just will not heed this kind of well meant advice out of hubris. ) 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Stosh

[rene]

1 hour ago, allinone said:

 

i alienate people till i am satisfied. I prefer that activity is not interpreted as poking and insults.

....

forgot to say that with that response you alienate me pretty well. Specially i said things about being friendly.

so i can't talk with you like i belong to the same pack or group with you. So we belong to different groups therefore if i use lecturelike manner then it feels insulty for you.

..

nothing wrong what you do, its just rainy here instead of warm sunny weather. So i start alienate and i get once in a while a sunny day too.

(my bold)

 

"I alienate people till I am satisfied. I prefer that activity is not interpreted as poking and insults."

 

allinone, good morning!

 

That ^^ is the most honest and unusual thing I've ever heard! I understand you, now, and am very glad you were able to describe your nature in such a concise way, not many people can. Would it be possible for you to make that sentence your Signature line, to appear at the bottom of each of your posts? It would go a long way for others to understand why you do what you do, that your poking is about you, rather than them personally. Hmm... maybe that wouldn't work ,though, since you need them to be insulted so they are alienated to your satisfaction.

 

Sorry to hear you think you cant be friendly with me, because I, for one, like you very much.

 

Most folks here want to NOT alienate others...so you can be like the cosmic balance for TDB! Please feel free to be as alienating as you'd like (to a point), as long as you stay within the rules of the forum, so that you can stay in the forum. If we get too many member complaints about you though, you might have to leave. But we can just play it by ear, for now, okay?

 

Hope your day is as irritating as you'd like it to be!

 

Warmest regards

[rene]

49 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

i refer to the feeling i get when i realize "i am being seen on the level of feet". Other person uses my pure part towel for to purify his/her/it dirty parts. So feeling that feeling i need to make a action to defend my pride.

 

You weren't being seen in that manner...but even if you were - isn't that the kind of feeling you like to get?

[rene]

Here is a little zen story, as a gift, for allinone:

 

Two monks were washing their bowls in the river when they noticed a scorpion that was drowning. One monk immediately scooped it up and set it upon the bank. In the process he was stung. He went back to washing his bowl and again the scorpion fell in. The monk saved the scorpion and was again stung. The other monk asked him, "Friend, why do you continue to save the scorpion when you know it's nature is to sting?"

"Because," the monk replied, "to save it is my nature."

 

Now...unlike the second monk, my nature is not to 'save' others, scorpion or not lol, but rather to let people be who they are without needing to change them. My being a Mod is a practice in balance for me...as sometimes it seems I'm forced to enforce rules that appear to push folks in a direction away from their nature. I can do that, though, because I truly believe that everyone has love at the center of their true nature...and sometimes they just stray away from that.  On the other hand, if someone's true nature actually is scorpion-like, I hope that second monk is around for them, cause I'll just watch it drown. Who am I to know what outcome is best for the scorpion? I barely know what outcomes would be best for me, lol

 

Or so it seems from here.

[allinone]

1 hour ago, rene said:

Here is a little zen story, as a gift, for allinone:

 

Two monks were washing their bowls in the river when they noticed a scorpion that was drowning. One monk immediately scooped it up and set it upon the bank. In the process he was stung. He went back to washing his bowl and again the scorpion fell in. The monk saved the scorpion and was again stung. The other monk asked him, "Friend, why do you continue to save the scorpion when you know it's nature is to sting?"

"Because," the monk replied, "to save it is my nature."

 

Now...unlike the second monk, my nature is not to 'save' others, scorpion or not lol, but rather to let people be who they are without needing to change them. My being a Mod is a practice in balance for me...as sometimes it seems I'm forced to enforce rules that appear to push folks in a direction away from their nature. I can do that, though, because I truly believe that everyone has love at the center of their true nature...and sometimes they just stray away from that.  On the other hand, if someone's true nature actually is scorpion-like, I hope that second monk is around for them, cause I'll just watch it drown. Who am I to know what outcome is best for the scorpion? I barely know what outcomes would be best for me, lol

 

Or so it seems from here.

 

ok.

it reminds me to the point of intent. If you come aware of the possibility to save, then you need decide either you save it or not, so if you not save it then you just cultivated that kind of seed. In order to escape that situation is to solve the issue without choosing neither of the two options but suffer the consequence of not choosing.

[rene]

9 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

ok.

it reminds me to the point of intent. If you come aware of the possibility to save, then you need decide either you save it or not, so if you not save it then you just cultivated that kind of seed. In order to escape that situation is to solve the issue without choosing neither of the two options but suffer the consequence of not choosing.

 

Very true and well said.

 

[Just so you know, we (you and me) might mean different things regarding the word 'suffering'. I don't subscribe to the Buddhist ideas regarding 'suffering', but that is another topic, and I know what you meant in your post.]

 

My perspective holds that every moment, every action and non-action, both creates and destroys, both benefits and harms - at the same time. So... by choosing neither of the two options (to save the scorpion or not)... the outcome from my 'not choosing' might turn out to bring me joy or sorrow, but both joy and sorrow are temporal and temporary.

 

The scorpion would drown; I would go about my day and whatever comes, comes.

 

 

[allinone]

1 minute ago, rene said:

 

Very true and well said.

 

[Just so you know, we (you and me) might mean different things regarding the word 'suffering'. I don't subscribe to the Buddhist ideas regarding 'suffering', but that is another topic, and I know what you meant in your post.]

 

My perspective holds that every moment, every action and non-action, both creates and destroys, both benefits and harms - at the same time. So... by choosing neither of the two options (to save the scorpion or not)... the outcome from my 'not choosing' might turn out to bring me joy or sorrow, but both joy and sorrow are temporal and temporary.

 

The scorpion would drown; I would go about my day and whatever comes, comes.

 

 

 

I saw flies stuck and i have the opportunity to save them. I for first reaction rejected it because it required effort. I saw that impulse of rejection, so after seeing that i have no choice but to save them. So i do effort to save them and it doesn't matter if i actually manage to save them but i need to complete the action otherwise i would end up being in debt and would carry that debt around me and the judge death will punish me.