Virtue is...

[Stigweard]

[Cameron]

Tolerance, nice.

 

I say patience.

 

Patience is allowing things to flow without forcing them in the direction you want. I am so often humbled by my lack of patience in myself. To me, an excellent example of patience is a martial artist who can be still and calm enough to wait until just the right moment before the strike or punch hits to move or react. To aggressively react or lose your center before the right moment is lack of patience.

 

This is something to work on over a lifetime.

[mYTHmAKER]

Awareness

 

It is only through awareness that I can be virtuous.

Untill I become aware of my impatience or intolerance

I cannot change.

[Stigweard]

Awareness

 

It is only through awareness that I can be virtuous.

Untill I become aware of my impatience or intolerance

I cannot change.

 

 

Nice

 

Prudence

 

Care, caution, and good judgment, as well as wisdom in looking ahead. With the awareness of how my thoughts, words, and actions will precipitate I can take appropriate actions in the now.

[mantis]

* Wisdom and Knowledge: creativity, curiosity, open-mindedness, love of learning, perspective

* Courage: bravery, persistence, integrity, vitality

* Humanity: love, kindness, social intelligence

* Justice: citizenship, fairness, leadership

* Temperance: forgiveness and mercy, humility and modesty, prudence, self-regulation

* Transcendence: appreciation of beauty and excellence, gratitude, hope, humor, spirituality

[thelerner]

At the river the master asked four disciples what the most important virtue was.

 

The first looked into the river and said "To flow like water"

He was pushed in.

 

The second looked into the river and said "To have a mind that reflects as the river reflects the moon"

He was pushed in.

 

The third looked into the river and said "To shine like the sun which the moon reflects and the water accepts"

"Nice try" said the master and pushed the third in.

 

The fourth said, "To swim".

The master smiled and they both jumped in.

 

 

No idea what the above means, kinda Buddhist though.

 

I'd say Presence, a wordless presence thats everything is okay and going to be fine. Thats what the virtue I expect from an enlightened taoist to have.

[Gerard]

Same as all spiritual traditions: morality.

 

From a Buddhist perspective:

 

http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html

 

In other words, cultivate the three karmic causing agents: mind, body and speech.

[mat black]

Virtue is loving kindness.

 

All other virtues come from loving kindness. Taoist, Buddhist, whatever, loving kindness embraces and harmonises everything. It is non-discriminating virtue. The highest of all.

 

It is really amazing.

 

It is inherent within us as our authenticity, and it's nature is to radiate out in all directions with no conditions just like the sun.

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2008 by mat black

[mbanu]

A Taoist shouldn't have virtues.

Edited January 13, 2008 by mbanu

[mat black]

A Taoist shouldn't have virtues.

 

 

It's only because this dimension/world is so dualistic that we use the term virtue.

 

Loving kindness is inherent within us, so it's not something you 'have', you just are it.

 

But most of us are a bit too cloudy and thus aren't aware of it, so it's therefore necessary to use terms like virtue as a reminder to return to that state of our original nature.

 

 

 

From "The Yellow Stone Elder's Book of Plain Words

 

"Tao, Virtue, Benevolence, Rectitude and Decorum - these five are all one principle"

[Stigweard]

[doc benway]

Let go....

 

Sort of wu wei, sort of receptivity, ...

Be present, we are always so yang, find the yin. Feel the feelings, experience the senses, be with whatever you are doing fully. Be spontaneous - don't try to interpret, analyze, second guess - just do what is to be done in the moment.

I would have just said wu wei but there are too many preconceived notions about what that means; it too often is interpreted to mean not getting involved and I think that can be misleading. It's critical to get involved, why else are we here? The key to wu wei is to be involved deeply, but to be spontaneous, genuine - not letting the intellect interfere with the heart... or something like that. At least that's what occurs to me at the moment...

 

At the river the master asked four disciples what the most important virtue was.

 

The first looked into the river and said "To flow like water"

He was pushed in.

 

The second looked into the river and said "To have a mind that reflects as the river reflects the moon"

He was pushed in.

 

The third looked into the river and said "To shine like the sun which the moon reflects and the water accepts"

"Nice try" said the master and pushed the third in.

 

The fourth said, "To swim".

The master smiled and they both jumped in.

No idea what the above means, kinda Buddhist though.

 

I'd say Presence, a wordless presence thats everything is okay and going to be fine. Thats what the virtue I expect from an enlightened taoist to have.

Sounds to me like a Daoist koan - I like it....

[Stigweard]

Constancy

 

The Universe is in constant change, yet through all the changes can we remain constant within our virtue? When the wind and thunder of life incessantly stirs the surface can we maintain the stable axis of our own true nature? In the face of innumerable distractions and transitory concepts can we persevere with the one truth of Universal reality? To be constant is to be like the mountain, deep rooted, still, enduring, strong, and firm.

[Wayfarer64]

For me at this time I find open-mindedness to be a great virtue. It allows us to ask the right and wrong of any situation and come up with the virtueous path through consideration and any other in-put,This may be from our hearts, guts or TV news -if one is so enclinded...-

 

I for one have not watched TV news in a very long time

 

Which is to say being openminded may also preclude taking in biased and slanted views as being true or seriously considered of themselves...

 

Gleaning truth not deciding it before ample consideration...

 

As there is little of morality in most dogma and belief belies actual being often enough...

[Mal]

I for one have not watched TV news in a very long time

 

I pretty much stoped TV watching in October (election was on, lies everywhere) and I'm not missing it. People at work usually tell me the important news. I feel a bit out of touch but it's worth it.

 

I still get the TV guide and tape stuff with HDD recorder so we have something to watch while eating (no dinning room table, chairs and the entertainment system I prefer music but D did not have a TV for a while as a child and I think that is why she likes to have it going rather than the radio. You just waste so much time channel surfing watching stuff you don't really want to just cause it's there.

[Wayfarer64]

I have seldom lived with a working TV since 1974- when I was 20...Don't have one now -but I do run movies on my VCR- Also while at meals from a chair...I have a collection of 1,700+ films on VCR and enjoy them emmensly.

 

Joshua Then & Now is my current fav to suggest-since few have seen it and Alan Arkin steals it brilliently...In such a case, stealing is a virtue-so I have not strayed so far from the thread...

 

enjoy yr virtues as ye may -but those supposed sins (sez who!?)...may be interesting as well...

Edited January 15, 2008 by Wayfarer64

[mYTHmAKER]

Here is an email I just received from a friend. Enjoy.

 

 

Dr. Arun Gandhi, gandson of Mahatma Gandhi and founder of the M.K.Gandhi

Institute for Nonviolence, in his June 9 lecture at the University of

Puerto Rico, shared the following story:

 

I was 16 years old and living with my parents at the institute my

grandfather had founded 18 miles outside of Durban, South Africa, in the

middle of the sugar plantations. We were deep in the country and had no

neighbours, so my two sisters and I would always look forward to going

to town to visit friends or go to the movies.

 

One day, my father asked me to drive him to town for an all-day

conference, and I jumped at the chance. Since I was going to town, my

mother gave me a list of groceries she needed and, since I had all day

in town, my father asked me to take care of several pending chores, such

as getting the car serviced.

 

When I dropped my father off that morning, he said, "I will meet you

here at 5:00 p.m. , and we will go home together." After hurriedly

completing my chores, I went straight to the nearest movie theatre. I

got so engrossed in a John Wayne double-feature that I forgot the time.

It was 5:30 before I remembered. By the time I ran to the garage and got

the car and hurried to where my father was waiting for me, it was

almost 6:00.

 

He anxiously asked me, "Why were you late? "I was so ashamed of telling

him I was watching a John Wayne western movie that I said, "The car

wasn't ready, so I had to wait," not realizing that he had already

called the garage.

 

When he caught me in the lie, he said: "There's something wrong in the

way I brought you up that didn't give you the confidence to tell me the

truth. In order to figure out where I went wrong with you, I'm going to

walk home 18 miles and think about it.

 

" So, dressed in his suit and dress shoes, he began to walk home in the

dark on mostly unpaved, unlit roads.

 

I couldn't leave him, so for five-and-a-half hours I drove behind him,

watching my father go through this agony for a stupid lie that I uttered.

 

I decided then and there that I was never going to lie again. I often

think about that episode and wonder, if he had punished me the way we

punish our children, whether I would have learned a lesson at all. I

don't think so.

 

I would have suffered the punishment and gone on doing the same thing.

But this single non-violent action was so powerful that it is still as

if it happened yesterday.

 

That is the power of non-violence.

 

by Dr. Arun Gandhi, grandson of Mahatma Gandhi

[Stigweard]

 

I would have suffered the punishment and gone on doing the same thing.

But this single non-violent action was so powerful that it is still as

if it happened yesterday.

 

That is the power of non-violence.

 

by Dr. Arun Gandhi, grandson of Mahatma Gandhi

 

Thank you for this mYTHmAKER

[seadog]

Mythmaker the story you shared truly represents virtue.Thankyou for the wonderful post

[doc benway]

 

 

That is the power of non-violence.

 

by Dr. Arun Gandhi, grandson of Mahatma Gandhi

Beautiful story - thank you

[mYTHmAKER]

I gues this makes up for my lousy haiku

[Pietro]

At yesterday's lesson I was quite flabbergasted to discover that the origin of the word virtue is "power".

 

I suspect that changes the question quite a bit.

[宁]

virtue is what we people do to replace something we lost

 

i still think a really good daoist cares less about virtues

 

so, the complete question would be what virtue do we need... it seems to depend on the individual, and most of us speak of what we need most, or what we have most...

 

what do i need?

what do i have too much?

[Stigweard]

At yesterday's lesson I was quite flabbergasted to discover that the origin of the word virtue is "power".

 

I suspect that changes the question quite a bit.

 

De/Teh (Virtuosity, Virtue, Power)

 

A Daoist formula for de is "dao within." It may be the result of innate skill or of careful cultivation and training. Translators most commonly use "virtue" as a translation but hurry to remind us that it is 'virtue' in the ancient Greek sense of an excellence. 'Power' is an alternative translation that reflects the link between de and successful action or achievement for its possessor. Given our use of an aesthetic conception of interpretation of dao, we may think of one's de as her 'virtuosity.' Virtuosity exhibits itself in a performer by making his "interpretation" of the thing performed (a ceremony, chant or ritual) work in the context. Thus de links dao with correct performance. This elegantly blends in the perceived overtones of "power" in the form of the performer's ability to respond to clues in the context that make the performance "work." The "powerful" performance achieves the dao's goal in real time.

 

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/taoism/

 

Following this, the Tao Teh Ching, or daodejing, has been translated as "The Way and the Power" or even "The Power of the Way".

[Stigweard]

virtue is what we people do to replace something we lost

 

i still think a really good daoist cares less about virtues

 

so, the complete question would be what virtue do we need... it seems to depend on the individual, and most of us speak of what we need most, or what we have most...

 

what do i need?

what do i have too much?

 

In traditional schools of Tao virtue, or de, is the natural expression of one who has achieved Tao. Once all the coarse elements of one's personality have been sublimated the raw essence that remains is one's true personality or nature. Thus the practice of virtue is not 'adding' anything at all but rather an excavation to the root and core or one's being and letting 'de' naturally and effortlessly permeate all of our thoughts, words and actions.