Virtue is...

[mat black]

Pietro

At yesterday's lesson I was quite flabbergasted to discover that the origin of the word virtue is "power".

 

- but not power in the conventional understanding of the word. It's the power of loving kindness.

 

Chapter 36 of the Scripture of Forty Nine Chapters says:

 

"The power of kindness and compassion is the most vast and great power. The hearts of kindness and compassion can melt all; the practices of kindness and compassion can tame all. Viscious ones cannot compete with it, and atrocious ones cannot fight against it - wherever it proceeds, it is always invincible.

Thus, this power is vast, great and boundless."

 

 

 

Sifu Stigweard

In traditional schools of Tao virtue, or de, is the natural expression of one who has achieved Tao. Once all the coarse elements of one's personality have been sublimated the raw essence that remains is one's true personality or nature. Thus the practice of virtue is not 'adding' anything at all but rather an excavation to the root and core or one's being and letting 'de' naturally and effortlessly permeate all of our thoughts, words and actions.

 

So true.

Because that's our original, authentic nature. Sooner or later, everyone will realize this through their own experience.

 

Virtue is what we really are.

Edited January 16, 2008 by mat black

[Pietro]

Pietro

- but not power in the conventional understanding of the word. It's the power of loving kindness.

 

Chapter 36 of the Scripture of Forty Nine Chapters says:

 

"The power of kindness and compassion is the most vast and great power. The hearts of kindness and compassion can melt all; the practices of kindness and compassion can tame all. Viscious ones cannot compete with it, and atrocious ones cannot fight against it - wherever it proceeds, it is always invincible.

Thus, this power is vast, great and boundless."

Sifu Stigweard

So true.

Because that's our original, authentic nature. Sooner or later, everyone will realize this through their own experience.

 

Virtue is what we really are.

Hello Mat,

could you please present me the 49 chapters. For I am not familiar with them.

 

In particular I would like to know, the tradition the book came from, the time, the historical period and the author. Only then will I be able to start to have an idea of what does the authore really mean with what he is saying.

[三江源]

I agree with the rather stark statement that A Taoist should not have virtues.

 

All a Taoist needs is to be in tune with the Dao.

 

The Dao doesnt "have virtues".

 

 

In order to become one with the Dao one will develop a lot of qualities.

 

 

A steadfastness, and an open receptivity alongside a strong bullshit detector come in handy.

[mat black]

Hello Mat,

could you please present me the 49 chapters. For I am not familiar with them.

 

In particular I would like to know, the tradition the book came from, the time, the historical period and the author. Only then will I be able to start to have an idea of what does the authore really mean with what he is saying.

 

 

Hi Pietro, it can be found here.

 

http://taoistresource.home.comcast.net/~ta...rce/doe_idx.htm

 

 

Cat

The Dao doesnt "have virtues".

 

That's because the Tao is virtue, so the more we re-align with the Tao, the more so-called virtue will be naturally manifest within and without us.

 

It will be our breath, heartbeat, every act, and non-act.

[hagar]

I lost a friend who drowned in a stream some years ago.

 

That stream had Te.

Edited January 17, 2008 by hagar

[Starjumper]

When I think of Te I use the word 'ethics'

 

In order to truly practice Te one must first have clarity or else they are bound to have difficulties.

 

Te can only be cultivated through the give and take of everyday interactions with others, not by sitting on a mountaintop, however it only works well if they've done a lot of sitting first.

[neimad]

Why the need to try to conform to some kind of pattern of behavior because it is thought of as 'good' or 'right'.

 

In terms of the Tao that is just dualistic thinking.

 

Focusing on one will only serve to suppress the other in some way.

 

 

There is no good or right, there is just the simple nature of who we are and the striving to live each day as it comes.

[三江源]

[Stigweard]

[rain]

cat. you are like a flower unfolding!

 

naah that was stupid!

i'm a fan.

 

that's better.

Edited January 17, 2008 by rain

[xenolith]

I agree with the rather stark statement that A Taoist should not have virtues.

 

All a Taoist needs is to be in tune with the Dao.

 

The Dao doesnt "have virtues".

In order to become one with the Dao one will develop a lot of qualities.

A steadfastness, and an open receptivity alongside a strong bullshit detector come in handy.

I heard the truth bell ring when I read this.

[Stigweard]

I can understand that, if our ideal is to become indistinct and indescribable, then having any features detracts away from this ideal.

 

I have learned that achieving self-nature is the art and science of one who journeys Tao and that self-nature and universal nature are the same. Virtue and nature are so closely linked that they are one.

 

So in my view, one of self-nature operates in tune with their nature, and hence universal nature, thus all expressions will be imbued with virtue.

[Starjumper]

Edited January 18, 2008 by Starjumper7

[mYTHmAKER]

It's true, I learned most of what I know about Te from a Taoist immortal who had been a Confucian when he was younger, and he almost always used the word ethical.

 

Could you tell us what makes the Taoist immortal you studied with a Taoist immortal.

 

Thanks

[Stigweard]

[Starjumper]

Could you tell us what makes the Taoist immortal you studied with a Taoist immortal.

 

I wouldn't say I studied with him, he was more of a casual mentor type for me. There are various types of immortals, seven types I'm told and definitions get rather involved, lets just say I made it up.

[三江源]

I wouldn't say I studied with him, he was more of a casual mentor type for me. There are various types of immortals, seven types I'm told and definitions get rather involved, lets just say I made it up.

 

I think some of us would love it if you made up some more.

 

 

*waits nicely*

[Stigweard]

[cold]

[mYTHmAKER]

There are various types of immortals, seven types I'm told and definitions get rather involved, lets just say I made it up.

 

What constitutes an immortal.

Where can I find the definitions of the seven types of immortals.

Might fit into a category or two. Ya never know.

[Stigweard]

passion and empathy

as appropriate

to each unique situation

as they arise

 

 

Nice

[False Fable]

That is the power of non-violence.

 

by Dr. Arun Gandhi, grandson of Mahatma Gandhi

 

I'm arriving a bit late to the discussion and I apologize for only now responding to a first-page post in a three-page thread, but...

 

I liked this story. And I can see how the father's actions prompted the desired response in his own child. But I have to wonder if this example of non-confrontation really pertains to many of the people we interact with in real life. The child clearly was well-raised - after all, he conjured up enough empathy to recognize that he should trail behind his father at a walking pace for 18 miles.

 

Many of the people we deal with on a daily basis would have gotten embarrassed, then angry, and then driven off at full speed. Then they would have obstinately refused to go through the self-examination required for the father's admirable action to have its desired effect. And they would behave this way exactly because they themselves are accustomed to confrontation.

 

So what do we do about them?

 

Oh, and so that my first real post to Tao Bums isn't completely off-topic, I'm going to toss my vote in for the Three Treasures:

 

Moderation

Humility

Compassion

Edited January 25, 2008 by False Fable

[Stigweard]

A quiet bump for virtue

[Stigweard]

[Buddy]

"There are various types of immortals, seven types I'm told and definitions get rather involved, lets just say I made it up."

 

I think we can pretty much take Steve at his word by the end of this sentence. And he seems to have conveniently vanished do to it.