Full lotus

[mYTHmAKER]

Cat

you might try resistance flexibility http://www.meridianstretching.com/

 

Also yin yoga gentle stretching http://yinyoga.com/

 

intuflow for joints

[Oolong Rabbit]

Okay I am working my way into half lotus (unfortunately I have clunky treetrunk legs and clicky knees). A few months ago I tried half lotus and I couldn't do any better than to get the left knee a couple inches above my right foot. For the past 3 months I have been sitting cross legged for 20 minutes daily during meditation. I made it a habit to press my knees as low as I could get them to the floor and try to hold it during meditation. A couple nights ago, I figured what the hell and tried half lotus again. Lo and behold I can get my left knee to touch my right foot. It's hellishly painful mind you, but I am trying to hold it for two 10 minutes sessions. It is truly a test of sheer will power to hold it the entire time, but I am stubborn and believe in no pain... no gain.

 

As for the clicky knees, I realized I had some bad habits in my tai chi. I was not sitting deep enough, and I was loading up my knees. They are not really designed to be load bearing at those angles, and the reason for not letting the knee potrude past the tip of the toes in the sits is now painfully obvious.

 

P.S. Cat read the article below re: knee/ankle problems:

 

Basic Facts about the Yoga Posture (Asana)

 

The Half Lotus Posture (whose original Indian name is Ardha Padmasana or Ardha Kamalasana) in Yoga is suitable for meditation (Dhyana).

 

Note that Ardha means Half, whereas Padma or Kamala means Lotus. The posture gets its name because the person performing it resembles a Lotus. The Half Lotus Posture is an intermediate pose for beginners who cannot sit comfortably in the Lotus Posture (Padmasana). Yoga beginners can practice the Half Lotus Posture initially, and switch to the Lotus Posture later.

 

 

 

 

Stepwise Technique

 

Sit on the ground with your head and spine erect without drooping your shoulders. Extend your legs forward such that your knees and heels are placed together. Bend your right leg at the knee and get the bent knee toward your chest. Keep your calf touching the thigh and place the bent knee toward the floor. Hold your right foot heel with the right hand and the toe with the left hand and bring the right foot over the left thigh with the sole facing upward. Keep the other leg straight.

After attaining this position, bend your left leg and place it under your right leg such that your left sole is under the right thigh.

Touch the thumb of each hand to the index finger at the tips to form a circle. Ensure that the other three fingers are straight. Rest your left hand on your left knee and your right hand on your right knee with the palms facing upwards. Keep your arms straight at the elbows. This hand position is called Jnana Mudra (Knowledge Hand Gesture) because it signifies the knowledge of connecting the Individual Soul (Atma) with the Supreme Soul (Paramatma).

Remain in this final posture with your eyes closed for about 1-2 minutes (in the early stages) or your breakpoint*. Repeat the above steps except that you swap the position of the legs by placing your left foot over the right thigh to begin with. This will ensure that both legs are built uniformly.

Tips and Comments

 

Step 1 forms a pose called Preliminary Half Lotus Posture (Purva Ardha Padmasana) which is a preparatory exercise for Ardha Padmasana. In the early stages, you may experience pain in the knees and may be able to place only one foot comfortably on the thigh. Therefore, you may wish to skip Step 2. Regular practice will make the process of placing the second foot easier. Beginners with rigid knees and/or ankles should proceed with care.

The Half Lotus Posture (Ardha Padmasana) itself is a preparatory exercise for the Lotus Posture (Padmasana).

In Step 3, the hands were positioned in Jnana Mudra (Knowledge Hand Gesture). They may be alternatively positioned in Dhyana / Padma Mudra (Meditation / Lotus Hand Gesture) or Drona Mudra (Bowl Hand Gesture) as described below.

Bend your arms at the elbows and place your hands below your navel on your lap. Keep the palms (a little cupped and with extended fingers) one on top of the other (usually, right palm on the left palm). The thumbs may either be straight or touch at the tips to form a triangle. This hand position is called Dhyana Mudra (Meditation Hand Gesture) because it is the hand posture recommended for meditation, or Padma Mudra (Lotus Hand Gesture ) because it looks like the lotus petals.

Rest your left palm on your left knee and your right palm on your right knee with the cupped palms facing downwards. Keep your arms straight at the elbows. This hand position is called Drona Mudra (Bowl Hand Gesture) because the palm is shaped like a bowl (Drona) covering your knees.

*Breakpoint is the time upto which you can comfortably remain in a yoga posture. It varies from individual to individual depending on one's fitness, age and will power.

Potential Benefits of the Yoga Posture (Asana)

 

The Half Lotus Posture (Ardha Padmasana) helps reduce excess fat in the body especially in the abdominal region. It aids in better functioning of the digestive and excretory systems.

The yoga posture assists in the cure of pain in the knees, ankles, and back. Its practice helps those suffering from insomnia and asthma.

The yoga posture keeps the mind focused because it requires one to sit upright. It is a posture often suggested for practicing Breath Control (Pranayama), Concentration (Dharana), Meditation (Dhyana) and Self-realization (Samadhi).

 

http://www.syvum.com/cgi/online/serve.cgi/..._padmasana.html

[sheng zhen]

After little over one month practicing Taomeows advice; practicpracticepractice, Im now able to sit in half lotus for as long as I want. And full lotus for about 1 min when Im warmed up. My left knee is still damaged and stiff but the energyflow has begun to get better.

 

Its a very interesting process and I could never imagine the energycirculation in my legs were that bad before I started on this task seriously. I thought I had a pretty good circulation throughout my body, but god damn, Ive got a long way to go before I am where I previously thought I was

 

Touch the thumb of each hand to the index finger at the tips to form a circle. Ensure that the other three fingers are straight. Rest your left hand on your left knee and your right hand on your right knee with the palms facing upwards. Keep your arms straight at the elbows. This hand position is called Jnana Mudra (Knowledge Hand Gesture) because it signifies the knowledge of connecting the Individual Soul (Atma) with the Supreme Soul (Paramatma).

Does this mean that the index finger represents Individual soul and the thumb Supreme soul? Does anybody know what the other fingers represents in yogic kind of knowledge?

 

Ive learned something we call vibrational anatomy, where each part of the body represents a function of consciousness or part of a process. The index finger as individual soul and thumb as supreme soul corresponds pretty good to what Ive learned.

[Starjumper]

Can't remember where I read this (in some Taoist tome) but I always tried to apply it.

Run up hill like a deer.

Come down hill like a tiger.

 

The Wandering Taoist is where that comes from.

[三江源]

Cat

you might try resistance flexibility http://www.meridianstretching.com/

 

Also yin yoga gentle stretching http://yinyoga.com/

 

intuflow for joints

 

hi mYTHmAKER, thankyou for these recommendations, I appreciate it. I'm reading the stuff at the first link at the moment. Have you tried this guy's exercises? or know anyone who has? I'm intrigued and would like to try it out...

 

Everyone seems to love intuflow. I need to find out more about it. thankyou.

 

OOlong thankyou also for your input, interesting.

[mYTHmAKER]

[三江源]

Thankyou mYTHmAKER.

 

I ordered the Bob Cooley book from my local library, but they dont have the DVD.

 

Some of the reviews suggest that you need to helpers to do these stretches effectively, to put the resistance at the right level for them to be effective.

 

 

I love Bath, yes. And it is quite some way from where I live. Manageable for a w/e though.

 

 

thankyou.

[mYTHmAKER]

Thankyou mYTHmAKER.

 

I ordered the Bob Cooley book from my local library, but they dont have the DVD.

 

Some of the reviews suggest that you need to helpers to do these stretches effectively, to put the resistance at the right level for them to be effective.

I love Bath, yes. And it is quite some way from where I live. Manageable for a w/e though.

thankyou.

 

You can do quite a lot by yourself.

Went to a workshop where we worked on stretching each other.

I would rather do it myself unless I had a pro stretching me.

mYTHISmAKER will help.

I would recommend the video as it's much clearer and only about $19 US

[i_am_sam]

I have always been able to sit in the full lotus position, I used to assume it and then walk (more of a hobble) on my knees when I was a kid. Silly. I have only started meditating in the last 6 months and usually sit half lotus which is comfortable for 1/2 an hour or so. I've never really thought about it, just assume the position. Now that I am thinking about it, should I practice full lotus? Try for longer each day at the end of a meditation? Does it matter which leg is over which? I guess yes and no, and do the same rules apply for half lotus? My meditation is mindfulness of breathing if that matters to answers, any and all of which I would welcome.

 

Sam

 

 

edit

 

Thanks Oolong Rabbit for the cut and paste above

Edited January 24, 2008 by i_am_sam

[voidisyinyang]

Again with the barrage of yoga as trendy consumerism people think it's some sort of work out or aerobics.

 

In fact true meditation is only after the body is so full of electromagnetic fields that it's like deep sleep -- you don't feel the body at all -- except full of light.

 

Before this happens you can sit in full-lotus at ease, in bliss, for at least two hours straight. Full-lotus is the most direct route but it's just a more intense form of harmonics which can also be practiced as the "small universe" exercise or tai chi standing exercise, etc.

 

In traditional trance dance when true samadhi is achieved -- for spirit travel -- the person falls back onto their back and has to have their body watched over by other healers (who can see inside other bodies for energy blockages).

 

The full-lotus prevents this falling over and has the healing harmonics built in to the form - it's the form of the formless -- so that internal blockages experienced internally as spirit travel can be resolved. It's the power of the body that enables spirit travel and what is experienced is a holographic spacetime projection enfolded within the body as well.

[Guest winpro07]

Edited February 13, 2008 by winpro07

[voidisyinyang]

In terms of the trinity the closest physical equivalent is the TREE OF ZAQQUM.

 

The Tree of life is the electrochemical energy. The Tree of Knowledge is the electromagnetic energy.

 

The Tree of Zaqqum is the apocalypse through separation of the Tree of Life from the Tree of Knowledge.

 

Full-lotus connects the tree of life to the tree of knowledge so that energy flows freely into the body as yin energy and out of the body as yang energy. That which remains is female formless awareness.

[Guest winpro07]

Edited February 13, 2008 by winpro07

[voidisyinyang]

I'll be honest: Full-lotus is the only truly effective means for a modern male to successfully sublimate the sexual energy into spiritual power.

[Taomeow]

Sorry Drew..I meant the posture its self. Does it increase upward flow, or? Not 'very well read' here, thankyou.

Or, how does the alignment of the legs, and proximity to the earth affect the body? are your hands in a particular position, does it matter? thanks

 

It neither increases nor decreases the upward flow by itself -- if that's what you're after, you have to direct it with yi. In female alchemical practices, e.g., you can direct it upward to circle the breasts, then downward to the uterus, then all the way up to the pituitary and hypothalamus. I'm not familiar first hand with male practices, obviously, but I've a hunch they can also direct it where they choose to. If you "do nothing," wuwei style, it tends to circle around and through you, in my experience, and come in concentric waves from the periphery, and do all kinds of other interesting things. I wouldn't call it "energy" though, more like "a sense of direction of creation," if that means anything. Hard to express... easy to not need to.

 

It affects the body the same way as being a fetus in the womb affects the body, and replicates this particular position for this particular purpose.

[voidisyinyang]

It neither increases nor decreases the upward flow by itself -- if that's what you're after, you have to direct it with yi. In female alchemical practices, e.g., you can direct it upward to circle the breasts, then downward to the uterus, then all the way up to the pituitary and hypothalamus. I'm not familiar first hand with male practices, obviously, but I've a hunch they can also direct it where they choose to. If you "do nothing," wuwei style, it tends to circle around and through you, in my experience, and come in concentric waves from the periphery, and do all kinds of other interesting things. I wouldn't call it "energy" though, more like "a sense of direction of creation," if that means anything. Hard to express... easy to not need to.

 

It affects the body the same way as being a fetus in the womb affects the body, and replicates this particular position for this particular purpose.

 

Yeah the unfortunate truth is that 99% of males can't control the lower half of their body! haha.

 

I remembered "Yi" as being actually from the kidney energy -- or will power. I googled "yi is kidney energy" and the top post was from taobums just about a year ago -- jan. 11th:

 

A Daoist saying refering to immortality, is when Shen falls in love with Jing. Here the spirit falls in love with body and will not leave. Otherwise they separate and that's it - game over. Thus, to demonstrate this concept of health and vitality in the body, the Tai Ji Tu should have the Yang side below and the Yin side up. Here Yang lifts Yin and keeps the body healthy. When yin settles and yang rises up and away, Shen and Jing separate.

 

"Kidney water reverses its course."

 

In this case, as that thread translates the Chinese, shen is associated with yi and when it falls in love with jing that means rising the kidney energy. The full-lotus is the best means to do this for males -- or else the will power is dissipated as fluid.

 

Once the third eye is open then the energy just flows omnidirectional -- the 4 directions plus space and time bending for a total of 6 directions or really no direction at all -- the female formless awareness is the "ally ally in come free."

 

But the "yi" as shen is directed through the eyes so that if you point your head down towards your hands you bounce the yang energy back into the yin of your body to build up your own energy. That's while meditating. That's the focus of my "Yan Xin Secret" article at http://mind-energy.net. Otherwise the yang energy shoots out of the eyes, via the third eye, while the yin energy of where the third eye is focused, flows back into the full-lotus. That creates the "O at a D."

Edited January 25, 2008 by drew hempel

[joeblast]

Came across a good article on stretches for full lotus:

 

http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/488

[sheng zhen]

Had my first two minute long full lotus meditation yesterday, with so little pain that I was able to meditate.

 

It is really special. I understand now what Drew say that it transmutes negative energies and feelings. My experience was that my whole body aligned it self to my central core, sort of. My pelvic area realxed and opened up and energy flowed through my body freely, as if my body was a hollow tube with wind blowing through. This is a feeling I only have experienced after 2 days meditation on a chair during silent retreats. It came after 1 minute full lotus. Truly amazing!

 

So Ill definetly keep up my practicepracticepractice!

[rain]

Had my first two minute long full lotus meditation yesterday, with so little pain that I was able to meditate.

 

It is really special. I understand now what Drew say that it transmutes negative energies and feelings. My experience was that my whole body aligned it self to my central core, sort of. My pelvic area realxed and opened up and energy flowed through my body freely, as if my body was a hollow tube with wind blowing through. This is a feeling I only have experienced after 2 days meditation on a chair during silent retreats. It came after 1 minute full lotus. Truly amazing!

 

So Ill definetly keep up my practicepracticepractice!

 

congratulations. truly amazing. I wishiwish

[joeblast]

Rain, check out that link I posted above. I think doing those exercises are what is going to get me to be able to sit comfortably! The cradle stretch is huge, I didnt realize how tight my hips were, esp the gluteus medius/minimus, tensor fascia lata...I've determined that those few things are the reason my ankles seem to get stretched to the point of severe pain in full lotus. Medial aspects of my knees, too.

 

Here's a good anatomical page for the muscles & tendons.

http://www.rad.washington.edu/atlas2/

[rain]

..............

Edited April 18, 2008 by rain

[joeblast]

I'd never presume to be! Those are just my problem areas, too

[Mal]

[sheng zhen]

Had my first 20 min full lotus meditation today. It was too painful to meditate, but just good enough so I could do alternate nostril breathing comfortably.

 

The last few days Ive reduced my streching to just a few easy asanas that seem to be the ones that actually help me sit full lotus. But I stay longer in these asanas so it takes just as much time. Here is my program:

I do steps 1-3 three times and spend 2-3 min in every pose.

 

1. Downward facing dog pose. Intermediate pose between #2 and #3.

2. Half-tourtoise pose. Helps my knees and hips to feel safe again after Pigeon pose.

3. Pigeon pose where I also bend forward like in #2. Streches hip and helps bending the knees.

4: Cow face pose with arms twisted in front.

[三江源]

Cat

you might try resistance flexibility http://www.meridianstretching.com/

 

Also yin yoga gentle stretching http://yinyoga.com/

 

intuflow for joints

 

mYTHmAKER - thankyou. I got the book by Cooley and am working with it. Really like it, so Ordered the DVD yesterday. Really good stuff.

 

Havent had time yet to follow up on the other suggestions, but will do so.