what exactly is "God"?

[3bob]

6 hours ago, 9th said:

 

I'll pass that along to Douglas Adams for ya.

 

agreed in the sense that we can't prove something to someone else that is outside of mental constructs with more clever mental constructs 

[Marblehead]

4 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

Or that Gods are the manifestation of the “all”. 

You know I can't touch that.

 

[Emera]

I guess some people don't get my point: there is no way that you can prove such a thing. But, there are methods that people claim leads to experience of such a being, and in my western path, I use many models that access such a being. Real or not real is just a boolean value in the head that falls away against experience. It is Supreme Mystery.

 

I am not attached to belief because it is a commodity I can change when I wish.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Emera

[Fa Xin]

15 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

You know I can't touch that.

 

How many of the 10,000 things can you not touch ?

[Emera]

The farther you go along your path, the less you keep track of your beliefs. Then, only Silence is left. One profound prayer in the Arbatel is to be free from unending human beliefs/infinite human opinions.

 

There is truth in everyone's statements here.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Emera

[Marblehead]

5 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

How many of the 10,000 things can you not touch ?

Many, I am sure.  But then, my desires are very limited.

 

[3bob]

12 hours ago, Emera said:

The farther you go along your path, the less you keep track of your beliefs. Then, only Silence is left. One profound prayer in the Arbatel is to be free from unending human beliefs/infinite human opinions.

 

There is truth in everyone's statements here.

 

realized masters, sages, saints or by whatever similar term one may use for same do not give up dharmic practices or wholesome aspects of their humanity in form to be free in Silence or formlessness...for "Silence" also uses such key human matrix's to work through.   (along with all others as much as possible)

Edited November 6, 2017 by 3bob

[9th]

16 hours ago, Emera said:

The farther you go along your path,

 

[Geof Nanto]

Perhaps it's time for a song from someone who was certain in a way that I was until a greater reality showed me otherwise. (But I still very much like the song.).......

 

 

God is a concept
By which we measure
Our pain
I'll say it again
God is a concept
By which we measure
Our pain

 

I don't believe in magic
I don't believe in I-Ching
I don't believe in Bible
I don't believe in tarot
I don't believe in Hitler
I don't believe in Jesus
I don't believe in Kennedy
I don't believe in Buddha
I don't believe in mantra
I don't believe in Gita
I don't believe in yoga
I don't believe in kings
I don't believe in Elvis
I don't believe in Zimmerman
I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me
Yoko and me
And that's reality

 

The dream is over
What can I say?
The dream is over
Yesterday
I was the dream weaver
But now I'm reborn
I was the Walrus
But now I'm John
And so dear friends
You just have to carry on
The dream is over

 

~ John Lennon

[cold]

God is in the de tails : cat tails, dog tails etc...

[Geof Nanto]

What exactly is “God”? Well, it’s just a word, albeit one that strongly connected with Abrahamic religions, usually defined something like:

a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.

 

Hence God as a term with a capital G is only meaningful within the context of the Abrahamic traditions; like Dao is meaningful in a special way for Daoists. As I don’t relate to those Abrahamic traditions, I’ll leave further discussion to those who do to either affirm or negate those theologies.  (The reason I quoted Meister Eckhart’s insights above was because of their similarly to classical Daoism. His views are definitely not those of mainstream Christianity.)

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by Yueya

[9th]

 

[ljazztrumpet]

Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind means, to me, to love everything intensely because everything that is, is God and you are part of that. 

 

Love your neighbor as yourself comes after you've cultivated a sense of love for everything that is. That you realize that everything you are conscious of is really you. When you have cultivated this sense of all-encompassing love then you kind of 'focus down' and go about your practical life and feeling that love you are developing for everything - the everything which is you - and you are feeling that feeling for everyone you see.

 

To me, one is more of a meditative exercise you may do when you're alone and, then, when you are out and about in your daily life interacting with others, you feel that love for all of them. And, perhaps, as you cultivate that love to a high enough level, you see no difference between your 'self' and 'other'. I still think love is the most effective way to break down the illusion of separation, just because it's so experiential. You start to love others more and more because you see them as simply you. I think it's a practice to be cultivated and, i would think, it becomes more and more natural over time. 

[TheCLounge]

God is an empty title. It only means what you choose to give it. Like Nietzsche said, "God is dead.." A lot of people don't understand why he said that..

 

The best and most authentic way I can describe "the essence" is by the Torah.

 

In the book of Exodus Moses asks "God" his name and he responds "I AM THAT I AM.."

 

He didn't say "God" or lord. God is a title that people use to invoke fear and judgement through people.

 

But when you say I AM, you realize something much deeper. You realize your true essence, and how it is connected to the true essence of everything else without the fallacy of the ego.

 

I AM is the true essence of all thing in you and around you. In the Bible I AM is also said to be light and fire.

 

Two elements that symbolize enlightenment..

Edited November 18, 2017 by TheCLounge

[TheCLounge]

On 11/8/2017 at 2:44 PM, ljazztrumpet said:

Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind means, to me, to love everything intensely because everything that is, is God and you are part of that. 

 

Love your neighbor as yourself comes after you've cultivated a sense of love for everything that is. That you realize that everything you are conscious of is really you. When you have cultivated this sense of all-encompassing love then you kind of 'focus down' and go about your practical life and feeling that love you are developing for everything - the everything which is you - and you are feeling that feeling for everyone you see.

 

To me, one is more of a meditative exercise you may do when you're alone and, then, when you are out and about in your daily life interacting with others, you feel that love for all of them. And, perhaps, as you cultivate that love to a high enough level, you see no difference between your 'self' and 'other'. I still think love is the most effective way to break down the illusion of separation, just because it's so experiential. You start to love others more and more because you see them as simply you. I think it's a practice to be cultivated and, i would think, it becomes more and more natural over time. 

 

This is basically what Jesus emphasized as the fulfillment of the Torah.

[doc benway]

On 11/3/2017 at 6:28 PM, 3bob said:

Shall we kick around "God" for a bit?  (Quote found on the internet)

 

"...This is for those who are very much hurt by the idea that God is neither good nor evil, that he is beyond good and evil. Traditional God is described in this way: before creation there was only one God, and there was nothing else; no space, no time and no matter. Let us suppose that in this situation God asked himself this question: am I good? If in this situation it was possible for God to know with certainty that he is good, then of course he is good. But if this was not at all possible, then God cannot be called good. Those who will opt for the affirmative here should also explain by what process God could have come to the realization that he is good, because we all agree that at that time there was no one else, nothing else, other than God.

If I claim about myself that I am good, then I am also claiming that I am the negation of that which is not good. That, which is not good, is the other, and I am not the other. I am the negation of the other, and the other is my negation.

But if we claim about God that he is good, then where is the other of whom God is the negation? This is because before creation God was one, and there was no one else other than God. So for God to be good, he will have to be his own negation. For God to be good he will have to contain within himself his own other. This can be expressed in the following way: God is the principle that represents all that is good and at the same time he is the principle that represents all that is not good. God is the affirmation as well as the negation at the same time. So either we will have to say that God is both good and not good. Or we will have to say that God is neither good nor not good. But to say that God is good will be philosophically naive and immature..."

 

 

I've come to see "God" as an ambiguous word, a label upon which we project all sorts of concepts. 

Most of those projections relate to mysteries that make us feel uncomfortable or vulnerable. 

By attaching a label and set of beliefs we pretend that we understand which gives us a false sense of security.

That's the purpose of labels in general, it seems.

[oak]

By chance I found out this video yesterday and loved it. It could be entitled: what happens when a kid asks the wrong question to the right person ? 

 

 

[Wells]

There is no God.

There are humans, gods, buddhas and immortals.

[MooNiNite]

God is your experience of reality.

An experience which can be intensified, purified...

[Edward M]

Anything that can be said about God, can only be true in a situation of duality, because it has to relate to something other than God.  To know God, is to know beyond duality.  The beginning, in relation to now, is the infinite potential of what is now/to come.  Before now, there was what can not be spoken of.  

 

Didn't read all of this topic, sorry if been pointed out already. 

 

Peace

[!nverse]

There are certain Western mystery school traditions that claim to worship the light reflected by planets, and that the planets are the Gods. Certainly the Greeks thought so too.

 

Certain other branches of those same schools also claim that Man is God, or rather more specifically, that the *mind* of Man is God & that we made him in our image. I think that may be true, but I don't think it's the end of the search, merely the beginning. Unite the two hemispheres, then the real work begins, but watch out for delusions of grandeur, for that way madness lies!

 

You could ask the Sabbateans or Frankists what they think, but you won't get a straight or dignified answer!

[Jonesboy]

The bible tells us what God is. God is the light and it is us as well.

 

1 John 1:5 ⁵This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

 

And to add to the concept of God is light.

 

“Let no one deceive you! God is light (11) and to those who have entered into union with Him He imparts of His own brightness to the extent that they have been purified. When the lamp of the soul, that is the mind, has been kindled, then it knows that a divine fire has taken hold of it and inflamed it. How great a marvel! Man is united to God spiritually and physically, since the soul is not separated from the mind, neither the body from the soul… It is evident that just as the Father abides in His own Son (12) and the Son in His Father’s bosom (13) by nature, so those who have been born anew through the divine Spirit (14) and by His gift have become the brothers of Christ our God and sons of God and gods by adoption, by grace abide in God and God in them (15).”

 

St Symeon The New Theologian And Messalianism

 

 

Maybe the words of Jesus will help:

 

 

John 10:23–38

 

23 Jesus was walking in the temple, hin the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are ithe Christ, jtell us plainly.”

 

 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. kThe works that I do lin my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26 but myou do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 nMy sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 oI give them eternal life, and pthey will never perish, and qno one will [pluck] them out of my hand. 29 My Father, rwho has given them to me,1 sis greater than all, and no one is able to [pluck] them out of tthe Father’s hand. 30 uI and the Father are one.”

 

31 vThe Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”

 

 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but wfor blasphemy, because you, being a man, xmake yourself God.”

 

 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in yyour Law, z‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be abroken— 36 do you say of him whom bthe Father consecrated and csent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because dI said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 eIf I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them, feven though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that gthe Father is in me and I am in the Father. 

 

http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jn%2010.23-38

 

We are all children of the light and joint heirs.   Romans 8:6-17 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.   More from Saint Symeon on the topic.   As we ascend to that which is more perfect, He who is without form or shape comes no longer without form or without shape. Nor does He cause His light to come to us and be present with us in silence. But how? He comes in a definite form indeed, though it is a divine one. Yet God does not show Himself in a particular pattern or likeness, but in simplicity, and takes the form of an incomprehensible, inaccessible, and formless light. We cannot possibly say or express more than this; still He appears clearly and is consciously known and clearly seen, though He is invisible. He sees and hears invisibly and, just as friend speaks to friend face to face (cf. Ex. 33:11), so He who by nature is God speaks to those whom by grace He has begotten as gods. He loves like a father, and in turn He is fervently loved by His sons.

Quote n° 3433 :  Saint Symeon the New Theologian , (949 - 1022), Christianity, Orthodoxy Source : The Discourses, p. 365, Trans. C.J. de Catanzaro. Ramsey, N.J.: Paulist Press, 1980.    From a Kashmir Shaivism perspective you can think of it like this. We are One like Siva and the light is the Heart which is all things.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Jonesboy

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, !nverse said:

There are certain Western mystery school traditions that claim to worship the light reflected by planets, and that the planets are the Gods. Certainly the Greeks thought so too.

 

Certain other branches of those same schools also claim that Man is God, or rather more specifically, that the *mind* of Man is God & that we made him in our image. I think that may be true, but I don't think it's the end of the search, merely the beginning. Unite the two hemispheres, then the real work begins, but watch out for delusions of grandeur, for that way madness lies!

 

You could ask the Sabbateans or Frankists what they think, but you won't get a straight or dignified answer!

 

I am still going with my previous definition   .

 

Of course, any scripture isnt going to tell us what God is .  It is only going to define God  within the  parameters of its own narrow belief system .

 

" Light' is too narrow a definition IMO .  We need to see it as 'that principle that inspires, or makes people originally, with those good propensities  that enact behaviour (within my definition ) .  Since we dont have words for such concepts ( just phrases ) I prefer the Zoroastrian terminology ;

 

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/overview/index.htm#components

[Jonesboy]

The light isn’t the full answer as Jesus mentions here.

 

50. Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.' If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"

 

To get an understanding of what the light is, here is an amazing description from a truly great master Abhinavagupta.

 

From the Triadic Heart of Siva 

 

The Heart of Siva

 

The Heart, says Abhinavagupta, is the very Self of Siva, of Bhairava,

 

and of the Devi, the Goddess who is inseparable from Siva. Indeed,

 

the Heart is the site of their union (yamala), of their embrace (samghatta).

 

This abode is pure consciousness (caitanya) as well as unlimited bliss

 

(ananda). As consciousness the Heart is the unbounded, infinite light

 

(prakasa) as well as the freedom (svatantrya) and spontaneity (vimarsa)

 

of that light to appear in a multitude and variety of forms. The Heart,

 

says Abhinavagupta, is the sacred fire-pit of Bhairava.1

 

The Heart is the Ultimate (anuttara) which is both utterly transcendent

 

to (visvottirna) and yet totally immanent in (visvamaya) all created things.

 

It is the ultimate essence (sara). Thus, the Heart embodies the paradoxical

 

nature of Siva and is therefore a place of astonishment (camatkara), sheer

 

wonder (vismaya), and ineffable mystery. The Heart is the fullness and

 

unboundedness of Siva (purnatva), the plenum of being that overflows

 

continuously into manifestation. At the same time, it is also an inconceivable

 

emptiness (sunyatisunya).2 The Heart is the unbounded and

 

universal Self (purnahanta).

 

The Heart of Siva is not a static or inert absolute, however. In fact,

 

the non-dual Kashmir Shaiva tradition considers it to be in a state of

 

perpetual movement, a state of vibration (spanda)3 in which it is continuously

 

contracting and expanding (samkoca-vikasa), opening and closing

 

(unmesa-nimesa), trembling (ullasita), quivering (sphurita), throbbing,

 

waving, and sparkling (ucchalata). The intensity and speed of this move

 

ment is such that paradoxically it is simultaneously a perfect dynamic

 

stillness.4

 

The tradition states that the Heart is the enormous ocean (ambunidhi),

 

the ocean of light, the ocean of consciousness. The waters of consciousness

 

that in man are broken by countless polarizing and divisive waves (urmi)

 

may be easily brought to a state of dynamic stillness by the process of

 

immersion or absorption (samdvesa) in the Heart.

 

.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Jonesboy

[!nverse]

Has anyone here experienced the Merkaba light vehicle?