Mind only

[Gunther]

14 hours ago, Marblehead said:

And you are convinced that life cannot emerge from non-living substances?

 

I don't know the mysteries of life.  I guess that is why they are called mysteries.

 

Sure, death could be viewed as a deep sleep from which we never wake up.  I suppose this is because there is no longer a living brain to wake up.

 

 

I am not convinced, I am inclined. The mystery is a mystery. By definition. Spirit or matter, whatever, just labels

[Gunther]

15 hours ago, Marblehead said:

And you are convinced that life cannot emerge from non-living substances?

 

I don't know the mysteries of life.  I guess that is why they are called mysteries.

 

Sure, death could be viewed as a deep sleep from which we never wake up.  I suppose this is because there is no longer a living brain to wake up.

 

 

and: We are that mystery

I can discard all ethics, morals, social conditioning, fulfill no expectations, no promises, no meaning, no mission impossible 😀a bit like the old Taoists.

Lo and behold I am free and surprise, surprise, I am not a monster going on a shooting spree, eating little babies, no all the commandment of religion, the precepts of monks, the virtues of philosophers, are effortlessly and naturally already my true nature 😀😀

How about that? That can't be bad?😀😀

Edited November 20, 2017 by Gunther

[Marblehead]

1 hour ago, allinone said:

 

it was promising of you,

Well, last night I was beginning to think that it was time to give up on you.  But these three posts have changed my mind.  I will stay with you for now.  But remember, you can't talk to others the way you talk with me.  Most would report your ass.

 

1 hour ago, allinone said:

i actually felt good,

That was nice to read.  I think we need to stay with this a while.  We need to experience both sides of the duality.

 

1 hour ago, allinone said:

but its my fault of still clinging to goodness.

I try to not criticize others regarding this concept but I freely offer my opinion regarding it.

 

1 hour ago, allinone said:

So i remove good impression and then read the sentence.

Be a mirror.  Reflect only what was presented.  Don't alter it.  If you do it then becomes an illusion or a delusion.

 

1 hour ago, allinone said:

It requires me to do two steps whilst one is focus on emptiness, that means i need keep good feeling away from visual space when reading and do it so long that i get a other meaning to this sensation by arising sensation.

 

But when you become the mirror there will be no steps.  Your life will be simpler and you will have more time for other things.

 

1 hour ago, allinone said:

but for now its just i don't feel anything after i emptied the feeling(that includes i actually saw and felt the change in space and also sensation in head, it felt nice[electrical] when i noticed i clung to goodness feeling what i got attached by first time reading your reply to me).

Yes.  Empty your cup.  Allow room for other thoughts.  Experience the emotions, the feelings, then let them go.

 

1 hour ago, allinone said:

That means no arising sensation will come now with this time, i assume since i don't feel urge to defeat you or make a opposite structure, like in game tetris. Right, i created that form with my first todays reply, that's why.

Yep.  I am not battling with you.  You are battling with yourself.  I think you may have trained your mind, your feelings, to an unnatural state.  That is, your need to feel negative before you can feel the positive.  I'm just guessing here; it's just what I am receiving from you.

 

Of course, I have no idea what your "real" life consists of.  I have no idea what the causes were that led to the effects they have had on you.

 

But I do believe that if you find peace and contentment here on this forum it will result in nothing but good.

[Marblehead]

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

and: We are that mystery

I can discard all ethics, morals, social conditioning, fulfill no expectations, no promises, no meaning, no mission impossible 😀a bit like the old Taoists.

Lo and behold I am free and surprise, surprise, I am not a monster going on a shooting spree, eating little babies, no all the commandment of religion, the precepts of monks, the virtues of philosophers, are effortlessly and naturally already my true nature 😀😀

How about that? That can't be bad?😀😀

You did great with that one.  Left me with little else to say.

 

Yes, discard all labels, all preconceptions, all prejudices, and live within the "what is".  And yes, I would agree, that would be freedom.  The last step would be attaining the state of wu wei.  At that point we are beyond all dualities.

[allinone]

1 hour ago, Marblehead said:

Well, last night I was beginning to think that it was time to give up on you.

 

if that thought appeared to your mind, it happened. Second time to be precise now i get that from you. Its good news since i don't need your help anymore to have a third, i just can see your post and it will appear to me the sensation of you "gave up on me".

---

also what is important is the location where that knowledge happen and situation- a spiritual forum on internet.

Edited November 20, 2017 by allinone

[allinone]

..delited.

Edited November 20, 2017 by allinone

[Stosh]

4 hours ago, Gunther said:

and: We are that mystery

I can discard all ethics, morals, social conditioning, fulfill no expectations, no promises, no meaning, no mission impossible 😀a bit like the old Taoists.

Lo and behold I am free and surprise, surprise, I am not a monster going on a shooting spree, eating little babies, no all the commandment of religion, the precepts of monks, the virtues of philosophers, are effortlessly and naturally already my true nature 😀😀

How about that? That can't be bad?😀😀

This is a Self fulfilling statement since it merely presumes that you are unaffected by social conditioning and so forth.

So even If you are not a cannibal , this can still be attributed to social conditioning.

Virtues of philosophers and monks include morality , which you claim to have discarded.

One is incomplete without the complement of higher brain functions , so yes , it can indeed be bad. 

When folks lose the higher functions of their mind , if not prevented by the effects of nurture and habit ,

they are capable of horrific acts , like a chimpanzee might do , without conscience,without remorse,

and may be unable so much as to keep themselves fed, read a book , or even be aware of their actions. 

 

[Gunther]

19 minutes ago, Stosh said:

This is a Self fulfilling statement since it merely presumes that you are unaffected by social conditioning and so forth.

So even If you are not a cannibal , this can still be attributed to social conditioning.

Virtues of philosophers and monks include morality , which you claim to have discarded.

One is incomplete without the complement of higher brain functions , so yes , it can indeed be bad. 

When folks lose the higher functions of their mind , if not prevented by the effects of nurture and habit ,

they are capable of horrific acts , like a chimpanzee might do , without conscience,without remorse,

and may be unable so much as to keep themselves fed, read a book , or even be aware of their actions. 

 

That's the theory. And the state of today's civilization proves it wrong. Easy to see.like I said, maybe check out the old Taoists what they say in this matter.

First, animal society is brutally honest, true to their nature. No lying, cheating, backstabbing , diplomacy.

Second, human nature is inborn, it doesn't need artificial laws superimposed on it.

If man was allowed to be free and natural there would be no need for laws, prisons, rulers, kings, politicians, whatever. That is already corruption, which once in place justifies itself necessarily

Edited November 20, 2017 by Gunther

[Stosh]

6 minutes ago, Gunther said:

That's the theory. And the state of today's civilization proves it wrong. Easy to see.like I said, maybe check out the old Taoists what they say in this matter

The old Taoists didn't have much to go on. You might as well ask Copernicus how the solar system works. 

I am not wrong , you built an argument on an assertion that you were not influenced by higher brain functions , and proposed that your actions therefore were your true nature , proving that , higher brain functions were not a factor in mitigating your behavior.

This suggests your point is that ones true nature is nice and kind somehow, without being mitigated by social conditioning., but you havent shown how you can have these ideas without being conditioned to them. Moreover , if one believes one is reincarnated , there is never a blank slate , (as far as conditioning goes).

Humans just don't have instincts of the same ilk as bugs and birds.  

[Gunther]

3 minutes ago, Stosh said:

The old Taoists didn't have much to go on. You might as well ask Copernicus how the solar system works. 

I am not wrong , you built an argument on an assertion that you were not influenced by higher brain functions , and proposed that your actions therefore were your true nature , proving that , higher brain functions were not a factor in mitigating your behavior.

This suggests your point is that ones true nature is nice and kind somehow, without being mitigated by social conditioning., but you havent shown how you can have these ideas without being conditioned to them. Moreover , if one believes one is reincarnated , there is never a blank slate , (as far as conditioning goes).

Humans just don't have instincts of the same ilk as bugs and birds.  

Are you suggesting the ancient Taoists weren't capable of "higher brain function"😀😀

And where is your evidence that modern man is kinder and nicer if your system was working??

Edited November 20, 2017 by Gunther

[Stosh]

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

Are you suggesting the ancient Taoists weren't capable of "higher brain function"😀😀

And where is your evidence that modern man is kinder and nicer if your system was working??

Any time you have witnessed restraint or generosity,  it has been a learned behavior , and is therefore higher brain function. 

Those old dudes , were brilliant , but there also have been many brilliant men building upon those origins.  

Whats your proof someone brain dead can even make a sandwich? 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

4 hours ago, allinone said:

 

if that thought appeared to your mind, it happened. Second time to be precise now i get that from you. Its good news since i don't need your help anymore to have a third, i just can see your post and it will appear to me the sensation of you "gave up on me".

Still won't get that negativity out of your mind.  Your choice.

 

4 hours ago, allinone said:

---

also what is important is the location where that knowledge happen and situation- a spiritual forum on internet.

I have stated many times that I am a Materialist.  I have never claimed to be a spiritualist.

 

Reality is what matters.  Illusions and delusions matter to only the one who holds them.

 

[Gunther]

2 hours ago, Stosh said:

Any time you have witnessed restraint or generosity,  it has been a learned behavior , and is therefore higher brain function. 

Those old dudes , were brilliant , but there also have been many brilliant men building upon those origins.  

Whats your proof someone brain dead can even make a sandwich? 

Of course you are right.

The great and very important art of making a sandwich, passed down through many generations, I will never know. But restraint and generosity I discovered ready made after throwing off the shackles of a excessive greedy society

[Stosh]

8 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Of course you are right.

The great and very important art of making a sandwich, passed down through many generations, I will never know. But restraint and generosity I discovered ready made after throwing off the shackles of a excessive greedy society

You have never made a sandwich? !!

True , restraint and generosity can appear to be in short supply ,in a society such as mine. However , there have been times when it was on abundant display as well.  I look at it this way , , walking beneath a tall cypress, I might look up and see the branches waving gracefully in the wind. Down by me , there may be 'nothing to write home about'. SO,  when considering these trees , I have to decide whether they are things of grace , or obstructions, or both at the same time. 

I have spent many years being somewhat of a misanthrope, disliking what I see most of the time ,of people , when what I wanted to see was the grace that folks can show. I have been harsh on society , down on capitalism etc. It is still really easy for me to drop back to that view, thinking like the 'realist', but I would rather be emphasizing the good. 

It is People who have given rise to all the stories, music ,  art , culture , humor and creativity we see..so while gentleness and warmth may not be humanities strong suit, there is other stuff. 

I saw you said that happiness was the goal , I think you are referring to Buddhist practice , and that may be entirely true, but much of life has very little to do with that pursuit when you take a close look , and compassion also appears not to be humanities goal. 

If this is true , then expecting humanity to find happiness , and be gentle , and not have greed , not war , and so forth ...

is a wishful fabrication that society isn't even trying to live up to. It is a paradigm being taught , not the basic nature of humans. 

RE: Whether the Taoists of old , felt that humanity's basic nature must be good , I have argued must be so , for Cz and Lz to be making sense, in encouraging a return to ones nature. But Confucius, I believe, felt man was more of a blank slate , and I think the Legalists generally felt that man was a sort of loose cannon, requiring much control. 

 

[Gunther]

21 minutes ago, Stosh said:

you are referring to Buddhist practice , and that may be entirely true, but much of life has very little to do with that pursuit when you take a close look , and compassion also appears not to be humanities goal. 

If this is true , then expecting humanity to find happiness , and be gentle , and not have greed , not

Not particular Buddhist.

Most people want peace and happiness. This is the inborn nature independent from outer circumstances. This is almost a no brainer. It's the culture, the leaders, the various vested interests who exploit, manipulate, pervert so called public opinion.

So for example nationalism, patriotism, is already manipulated by the rulers, through propaganda, creating fear of an outside enemy aggressor. Who mostly doesn't exist. As I've said people just want to love peacefully with their neighbour, bring up their kids and so forth. Of course by now human nature is so perverted, distorted that you need a massive military and police force. They created the need for themselves. That's also the Taoist view. And the anarchist view as well.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Gunther

[Stosh]

Its not a no brainer, take your patriotism, thats not a pursuit of happiness, and even if manipulated, its still voluntary. Youve mixed in peace with happiness this time.

If you have eschewed your neighbors , then personally , your situation has not been to live in tight proximity with them.

You cant say human nature is perverted , till you define what it is , show that its the best candidate for describing human nature.

Anarchists live under an umbrella of safety provided by a govt. Failed states are not desirable.

[Gunther]

9 hours ago, Stosh said:

Its not a no brainer, take your patriotism, thats not a pursuit of happiness, and even if manipulated, its still voluntary. Youve mixed in peace with happiness this time.

If you have eschewed your neighbors , then personally , your situation has not been to live in tight proximity with them.

You cant say human nature is perverted , till you define what it is , show that its the best candidate for describing human nature.

Anarchists live under an umbrella of safety provided by a govt. Failed states are not desirable.

To be truly individual you have to give up your individuality. To be free means responsibility, authenticity, integrity.

Like a leaf blowing in the wind same time an immovable mountain.

Can it be said in simpler terms? Maybe to understand one has to throw out that confused entangled heap of spaghetti-knowledge😀

It's all in the mind. You only need a bottle of castor oil on the shelf and never suffer from constipation again. Since you never use it, over time you forget about it. Peace

[allinone]

15 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Still won't get that negativity out of your mind.  Your choice.

 

I have stated many times that I am a Materialist.  I have never claimed to be a spiritualist.

 

Reality is what matters.  Illusions and delusions matter to only the one who holds them.

 

 

Being materialist or not, you still could train yourself to notice phenomena.

[Stosh]

3 hours ago, Gunther said:

To be truly individual you have to give up your individuality. To be free means responsibility, authenticity, integrity.

Like a leaf blowing in the wind same time an immovable mountain.

Can it be said in simpler terms? Maybe to understand one has to throw out that confused entangled heap of spaghetti-knowledge😀

It's all in the mind. You only need a bottle of castor oil on the shelf and never suffer from constipation again. Since you never use it, over time you forget about it. Peace

You sure you're a Buddhist ?, not a Taoist ,? that irony looks very familiar. 

Yes it can and should be said in 'simpler terms' , simpler terms,  being the ones,  that are accurate and particular to the message you are sending me. 

The knowledge they wanted us to ,, obviate ,, was the phony facade that they had to live with, in rapidly urbanizing China , the 'Honor code' , the insincere hierarchy of sucking up, and the rigmarole of  public ' face' . Things like 'actual respect' were becoming submerged in a pool of fake rituals. The 'knowledge to discard' was ones insincere persona and gets mislabeled as ego regularly. Ego is not a Chinese or Pali word in any language  , is not old , and actually has a particular definition.  

 

I don't need the castor oil if I eat correctly , which is for me,  less bread and wheat products , though I get the idea that having a safety backup seems to obviate itself. I know folks with hurricane generators purchased back a few years ago after some storms , which aside from maintenance , never have been turned on since. One pays a price for the idea of safety and security , which may or may not exceed the cost of an unprotected loss. 

 

[Gunther]

40 minutes ago, Stosh said:

You sure you're a Buddhist ?, not a Taoist ,? that irony looks very familiar. 

Yes it can and should be said in 'simpler terms' , simpler terms,  being the ones,  that are accurate and particular to the message you are sending me. 

The knowledge they wanted us to ,, obviate ,, was the phony facade that they had to live with, in rapidly urbanizing China , the 'Honor code' , the insincere hierarchy of sucking up, and the rigmarole of  public ' face' . Things like 'actual respect' were becoming submerged in a pool of fake rituals. The 'knowledge to discard' was ones insincere persona and gets mislabeled as ego regularly. Ego is not a Chinese or Pali word in any language  , is not old , and actually has a particular definition.  

 

I don't need the castor oil if I eat correctly , which is for me,  less bread and wheat products , though I get the idea that having a safety backup seems to obviate itself. I know folks with hurricane generators purchased back a few years ago after some storms , which aside from maintenance , never have been turned on since. One pays a price for the idea of safety and security , which may or may not exceed the cost of an unprotected loss. 

 

Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, nihilism, spiritualism, satanism, communism, intellectualism, and all the rest of conceptual systems are all good for certain people at certain times.

The point is they are all like castor oil.

Don't get addicted to it.

[Stosh]

5 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, nihilism, spiritualism, satanism, communism, intellectualism, and all the rest of conceptual systems are all good for certain people at certain times.

The point is they are all like castor oil.

Don't get addicted to it.

No they aren't c'mon satanism ,,, um no ,, communism ,, um no.

You can follow any of these time to time , or you can lead , (lead , by searching your soul , verifying what works , considering what has been said , seriously ,, and then steadfastedly holding on to that light you have found) .

Beyond bliss, there is a maintainable state of quietude , you can live it in small doses or in big ones , but regardless of that condiment , you still have a role to play , the essential human question , is  'What do I do now?', not How long can I sit in lotus position?  

[Bud Jetsun]

Whatever aids a being in making the choice to appreciate the real(this moment) is the 'right *ism', and requires no labels. 

 

To which Dharma does a Buddha cling? 

 

To which philosophy model does a Buddha replace reality? 

 

Pick the gems of wisdom out of the mud and it will remain a gem of wisdom. 

 

 No spare moment to spend on squabbles. Every day begins a new opportunity for self-discovery adventure in becoming the will of the Dao. Every night begins a new opportunity for self-discovery adventure in becoming the will of the Dao. 

 

Unlimited Love, 

-Bud

[Gunther]

The Dao, Brahman, will of God, whatever you call it, is already happening all the time, nothing else could possibly happen by definition.

It includes the self inflicted suffering caused by so called ignorance, trying to enforce our personal preference, likes, dislikes onto the cosmic law/self regulating principle.

Letting go is easy and easy is right.

But it's also the most difficult thing

[Gunther]

🌕 Freedom of Taking On & Letting Go 🌕
_________________________________________

🌕 Zhaozhou's "Letting go & Taking on" ：

☀ Yanyang Shanxin asked Zhaozhou Congshen, “How is it when not a single thing comes up?”
     Zhaozhou said, "Let go of it!"
     Yanyang answered, “Since there is not a single thing coming up, how can I let it go?”
     Zhaozhou said. “Then take it on!" 
     At the very moment, Yanyang was deeply enlightened.
_______________________________

🌕 Commentary Sharing ：

☀ Simultaneous letting go and taking on all things by means of non-abiding awareness;  
     All is going with causes and conditions and free of obstructions.

     Those who can take on and let go of all things with freedom and liberation;
     Every day is a good day and everywhere is a good place.

_/|\_ ❤ _/|\_

__________________________________________

[C T]

since all is going with causes and conditions, the phrase 'free of obstructions' is an unnecessary addition since obstructions do not inherently exist. The notions of obstacles and the opposing factors which constitute that which are deemed as non-obstacles arise together, remember?