Mair 12:8

[Marblehead]

In the grand beginning, there was only nonbeing,
But no being and no names.
Out of it arose the One;
There was One, but still no form.

From the One, things could be born, receiving what is called their virtue.  That which still had no form was divided, yet there was no separation.

This is called destiny.

Through stasis and movement, things were born.  As things were completed, various configurations were produced.

These are called forms.

The bodily form protects the spirit, the form and the spirit each having its own usages.

This we call nature.

Through cultivation of nature, it returns to virtue, and when virtue reaches its pinnacle, it is the same as at the beginning.  Being the same, it is empty.  Being empty, it is great.  This is like joining in with the chirping of birds.  Having joined in with the chirping of birds, one may join with heaven and earth.

This joining is all blurry,
As though one were stupid or muddled.
This is called dark virtue,
And is the same as the great confluence.

[Gunther]

Love listening to this

But if I think about it

All the birds are dead

[Marblehead]

19 minutes ago, Gunther said:

 

All the birds are dead

No, not dead.  We have become one with the birds.  One could say that we are the birds.

 

[Gunther]

Is this Chuang Tsu?

What I mean is, it sounds beautiful, deep, makes perfect sense, but if I think about, analyse it, it falls apart

[Marblehead]

Yes.  All of the threads titled Mair (whatever) is Victor H Mair's translation of The Chuang Tzu.

 

And you at right, we should not analyze too much.  When we do that we are actually adding our biases and prejudices to the reading and will likely miss the concept.

 

 

[Taoist Texts]

In the Grand Beginning (of all things) there was nothing in all the vacancy of space; there was nothing that could be named. It was in this state that there arose the first existence - the first existence, but still without bodily shape. From this things could then be produced, (receiving) what we call their proper character. That which had no bodily shape was divided; and then without intermission there was what we call the process of conferring.

 

(The two processes) continuing in operation, things were produced. As things were completed, there were produced the distinguishing lines of each, which we call the bodily shape. That shape was the body preserving in it the spirit, and each had its peculiar manifestation, which we call its Nature. When the Nature has been cultivated, it returns to its proper character; and when that has been fully reached, there is the same condition as at the Beginning.

 

That sameness is pure vacancy, and the vacancy is great. It is like the closing of the beak and silencing the singing (of a bird). That closing and silencing is like the union of heaven and earth (at the beginning). The union, effected, as it is, might seem to indicate stupidity or darkness, but it is what we call the 'mysterious quality' (existing at the beginning); it is the same as the Grand Submission (to the Natural Course).

/Legge/

[Marblehead]

Just a personal observation here:  I see no conflict between this and the theory of the Big Bang and the processes of nature and the Universe thereafter. 

[Gunther]

35 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Just a personal observation here:  I see no conflict between this and the theory of the Big Bang and the processes of nature and the Universe thereafter. 

What if I was inclined towards plasma theory??There is some trouble with the red shift of quasars that need still to be explained in the mainstream model.

It's a funny mathematics when you have the result beforehand and then figure out equations to fit in😀😀

Edited November 6, 2017 by Gunther

[Marblehead]

8 minutes ago, Gunther said:

What if I was inclined towards plasma theory??There is some trouble with the red shift of quasars that need still to be explained in the mainstream model.

It's a funny mathematics when you have the result beforehand and then figure out equations to fit in😀😀

I have seen/heard little bits and pieces about that but haven't heard anything to inspire me to do any research so basically I am ignorant of the subject and cannot speak to it.

 

[Stosh]

Math  usually has to follow insight, it can be used to extend a principle out to the limits of its purview, but beyond that ... guesses must take point. devils go where angels fear to tread.

[cold]

For best digestion the bird should be prepared with great care, so as the meat falls freely from the bone?

Followed by devils food cake while one considers the if the arithmetic adds up?

Small fish are often caught up in the main stream are they not?

 

As a child I marveled at the shad whom struggled to find the point farthest from the main stream.

As an adult I attempt to mimic them.

More often than not I fail.

 

The struggle continues