Golden Flower Meditation

[turtlehermit]

Just now, Mudfoot said:

Center amidst conditions could be interpreted as the empty space within the ring of yin-yang. As in this LDT image. 

But,  as in all these books, it might be a code for whatever, and thus up to interpretation. 

And I obviously placed the picture inside the quote.

Thank you.

 

Quotes taken from Cleary's translation.

 

"The whole work of turning the light around uses the method of reversal. The beauties of the highest heavens and the marvels of the sublimest realms are all within the heart: this is where the perfectly open and aware spirit concentrates. Confucians call it the open center, Buddhists call it the pedestal of awareness, Taoists call it the ancestral earth, the yellow court, the mysterious pass, the primal opening. 12 The celestial mind is like a house; the light is the master of the house. Therefore once you turn the light around, the energies throughout the body all rise. Just turn the light around; this is the unexcelled sublime truth. 13 The light is easily stirred and hard to stabilize. When you have turned it around for a long time, the light crystallizes. This is the natural spiritual body, and it steadies the spirit above the nine skies. This is what is referred to in the Mind Seal Scripture as "silently paying court" and "soaring upward."

 

"Mind Seal Scripture"

-"The sacred sun and sacred moon

Illumuniate the Golden Court.

One attainment is eternal attainment"

 

According to Stuart Alve Olson, the Golden court is the mysterious pass, yellow court, original cavity, LDT.

 

"When you want to enter quietude, first tune and concentrate body and mind, SO that they are free and peaceful. Let go of all objects, so that nothing whatsoever hangs on your mind, and the celestial mind takes its rightful place in this center. 9 After that, lower your eyelids and gaze inward at the .chamber of water: Where the light reaches, true positive energy comes forth in response."

 

"In terms of energetics, the "chamber of 'Water" means the lower abdomen, where energy is built up for circulation. In spiritual terms, the "chamber of water'" refers to the true sense of real knowledge hidden within temporal conditioning."

 

"In psychophysiological Taoist energetics, ""water is associated with the genitals,fire is associated with the heart: the intercourse of water and fire is then defined as placing the attention (associated with the heart) in the lower abdomen (associated with the genitals)."

 

"Focusing on the crown of the head is a method of enhancing alertness (to prevent quiet stillness from slipping into oblivion) and is only for temporary use at appropriate times."

 

"Focus on the center" is translated by Wilhelm as "the center in the midst of conditions," misreading the verb yuan, "focus," as the noun yuan, "condition." There follows a passage (not in my Chinese text) interpreting "focus on the center" to mean, as Wilhelm translates, "fixing one's thinking on the point which lies exactly between the two eyes." "This is not what the Buddhist term originally means, and this consciousness altering technique in Wilhelm's version is the subject of strong warnings in modern literature of the Completely Real school of Taoism; it is said to be very dangerous. The presence of numerous such fragmentary yogic interpolations out of character with the overall teaching of 92 the text leads me to suspect that Wilhelm's text had been doctored by quasi-Taoist cultists, quite possibly disaffected Confucians, who were devoted or addicted to altered states of consciousness."

 

It is clear from Clear'ys notes  that the center being referred to here is the lower dantian.

 

 

[turtlehermit]

1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

Center amidst conditions could be interpreted as the empty space within the ring of yin-yang. As in this LDT image. 

But,  as in all these books, it might be a code for whatever, and thus up to interpretation. 

And I obviously placed the picture inside the quote.

just curious where is the picture from?

[joeblast]

9 hours ago, thelerner said:

So.. what should a Golden Flower meditation session look like? 

Here's my shot..

To me, its sitting, I do half lotus, probably full lotus is better.  Eyes relaxed, in 'half eye' position, lids half closed, a lightly staring at the tip of the nose.  The mental focus is on the third eye.  Not the surface, a little deeper in.   A secondary focus on the breath and keeping it as quiet, noiseless as possible.  Which automatically means slow and gentle.  Especially on at the beginning and end points. 

 

Keeping up this up as long as is comfortable or perhaps a little longer.   Let thinking go, only the stare, the mental focus on 3rd eye, and a vigilant ever so quiet breathing.

but where's the turning the light around??

 

eyes should be in a neutral configuration, since they are in a push-pull configuration and are thus tricky to get "completely at rest" - tip of the nose is not completely at rest, its slightly above.  like a sort of looking down the bridge of the nose.

 

the reason for this is that the eyes are innervated and motivated by cranial nerves - and since we want to bring the neural dynamic of the cranial nerves to a very low consumption state, even little ambiguities like this become relevant at some point.

 

3rd eye is just conduit - the vision comes from the niwan

[joeblast]

7 hours ago, turtlehermit said:

just curious where is the picture from?

that's njt

[Wells]

8 hours ago, turtlehermit said:

It is clear from Clear'ys notes  that the center being referred to here is the lower dantian.

 

Maybe you should read the book once more.

[Mudfoot]

8 hours ago, turtlehermit said:

e beauties of the highest heavens and the marvels of the sublimest realms are all within the heart: this is where the perfectly open and aware spirit concentrates. Confucians call it the open center, Buddhists call it the pedestal of awareness, Taoists call it the ancestral earth, the yellow court, the mysterious pass, the primal opening. 

 

"Mind Seal Scripture"

-"The sacred sun and sacred moon

Illumuniate the Golden Court. 

 

According to Stuart Alve Olson, the Golden court is the mysterious pass, yellow court, original cavity, LDT.

 

After that, lower your eyelids and gaze inward at the .chamber of water: 

 

 

It is clear from Clear'ys notes  that the center being referred to here is the lower dantian.

 

 

No it is not. 

The first part states it is the heart,  the MDT. 

 

The Golden court might as well refere to niwan, from the quote above. 

 

And the chamber of water might also be in the head. 

 

So, still a matter of interpretation. 

 

[Wells]

20 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

The first part states it is the heart,  the MDT. 

 

The Golden court might as well refere to niwan, from the quote above. 

 

And the chamber of water might also be in the head. 

 No, no, no.

 

20 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

So, still a matter of interpretation.

 

No!

[Mudfoot]

Actually, infered from the quotes above, it is possible. 

 

Maybe not from the full context, that is another matter. 

 

But do you have a better interpretation, or do you just have no?

[thelerner]

To those who practice the Golden Flower as a meditation method rather then a philosophical reading..

What do you actually do?  (Please no theories, just what you do)

[Mudfoot]

I do not follow that book,  but what I stated above is a part of my actual practice.

 

Don't use those terms though. 

 

[Wells]

.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Wells

[Wells]

.

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Wells

[joeblast]

its difficult for some people to grasp certain things, e.g. the experience of heartmind - I'm not talking about a superficial or flowery concept, I'm talking about that point where the heart and mind are literally so intertwined that if the awareness is disturbed, then the heart becomes disturbed.   pre heaven bagua and post heaven bagua are not the same, this I feel is where the ambiguity of MDT as solar plexus vs MDT as heart center comes about.

 

its a process and once its dynamic becomes sufficiently stabilized, then its a much easier and less precarious position to be in, but rest assured, its a hurdle one should train diligently enough to overcome.

 

38 minutes ago, thelerner said:

To those who practice the Golden Flower as a meditation method rather then a philosophical reading..

What do you actually do?  (Please no theories, just what you do)

I've stated this a few times over as time's gone on - take it literally - turn the light around!  Do exactly, simply, that!  Its especially potent with the niwan, but it can in fact be done with the body as a whole or different points of focus - but if one wishes to get to the stage where the pineal-pituitary "master endocrine" dynamic is brought to bear, then turn the light around at the niwan.

 

this is part and parcel of my assertion that longevity breathing when done properly will convey an energetic boost where the metabolism is activated by the pineal pituitary dynamic "coming online" and flexing its "muscle" (which of course, muscle is non existent in the area, this is why trying to treat the area as if it has muscle is a recipe for energy stagnation - the practitioner needs to learn to deal with more subtle things in the upper center and not think of it as if it is but an LDT analogue in the head.)

Edited December 14, 2017 by joeblast

[Mudfoot]

2 hours ago, Wells said:

 

http://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/ch3.html

"18. Focusing around the center is a very subtle expression. The center is omnipresent; the whole universe is contained in it."

And a common way to experience this is to work with the heart center. 

 

So does the text speak about the method,  or the result? 

[Wells]

.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Wells

[joeblast]

11 hours ago, turtlehermit said:

Thank you.

 

Quotes taken from Cleary's translation.

 

"The whole work of turning the light around uses the method of reversal. The beauties of the highest heavens and the marvels of the sublimest realms are all within the heart: this is where the perfectly open and aware spirit concentrates. Confucians call it the open center, Buddhists call it the pedestal of awareness, Taoists call it the ancestral earth, the yellow court, the mysterious pass, the primal opening. 12 The celestial mind is like a house; the light is the master of the house. Therefore once you turn the light around, the energies throughout the body all rise. Just turn the light around; this is the unexcelled sublime truth. 13 The light is easily stirred and hard to stabilize. When you have turned it around for a long time, the light crystallizes. This is the natural spiritual body, and it steadies the spirit above the nine skies. This is what is referred to in the Mind Seal Scripture as "silently paying court" and "soaring upward."

 

"Mind Seal Scripture"

-"The sacred sun and sacred moon

Illumuniate the Golden Court.

One attainment is eternal attainment"

 

According to Stuart Alve Olson, the Golden court is the mysterious pass, yellow court, original cavity, LDT. Jumbled terms....yellow court is a post heaven configuration term.  Pre heaven is solar plexus - the celiac nerve plexus contains the renal plexus, spleen, liver, duodenum.  Lower and middle interact, think of something like Yan Xin's 9 step method and its symbolisms - the classic burning coal or fire at the lower dt, the shining lotus flower at the middle dt - opposites of the organ-nature - the chamber of water lower dantien, the fiery stuff attached to the celiac plexus.  Post heaven is when the energies of the two work together and they can act as one yinyang unit, and the huang ting, the jade ring, is the barycenter of the lower and middle DTs.  Then post here is where the heart applies to the concept of middle dantien, and the meaning and application of the hexagrams to the energy centers has undergone a shift, the equations have changed.

 

"When you want to enter quietude, first tune and concentrate body and mind, SO that they are free and peaceful. Let go of all objects, so that nothing whatsoever hangs on your mind, and the celestial mind takes its rightful place in this center. Its such a good 'given' to the equation - the solidity of this happening can be directly correlated to the neurological dynamic of the cranial sense nerves.  The 5 thieves are the 12 thieves here, as it were.  9 After that, lower your eyelids and gaze inward at the .chamber of water: Where the light reaches, true positive energy comes forth in response." Eyelids are also innervated by cranial nerves.  But again taking things literally, look back through your own eyes and down the nerves and into the guts into the chamber of water at the lower field, its like one of those heavy water neutrino detectors that wind up giving off light when there's a weak field interaction - look, you just turned light around there too!  I dont think we need to wait for solar neutrinos for this to happen inside our own guts, though, heh.

 

"In terms of energetics, the "chamber of 'Water" means the lower abdomen, where energy is built up for circulation. In spiritual terms, the "chamber of water'" refers to the true sense of real knowledge hidden within temporal conditioning."

 

"In psychophysiological Taoist energetics, ""water is associated with the genitals,fire is associated with the heart: the intercourse of water and fire is then defined as placing the attention (associated with the heart) in the lower abdomen (associated with the genitals)."  The adrenals hang off the celiac plexus and splanchic nerves - think about what you're doing here - innervation is going to the brain (afferent) and from the brain (efferent) so in a sense what you're doing is taking advantage of these neural loops to do the turning.  Genitals, adrenals = catalyst (in the weak force detector, that's not just water, but heavy water.)

 

"Focusing on the crown of the head is a method of enhancing alertness (to prevent quiet stillness from slipping into oblivion) and is only for temporary use at appropriate times." If your breathwork and focus are good then this is not necessary

 

"Focus on the center" is translated by Wilhelm as "the center in the midst of conditions," misreading the verb yuan, "focus," as the noun yuan, "condition." There follows a passage (not in my Chinese text) interpreting "focus on the center" to mean, as Wilhelm translates, "fixing one's thinking on the point which lies exactly between the two eyes." "This is not what the Buddhist term originally means, and this consciousness altering technique in Wilhelm's version is the subject of strong warnings in modern literature of the Completely Real school of Taoism; it is said to be very dangerous. The presence of numerous such fragmentary yogic interpolations out of character with the overall teaching of 92 the text leads me to suspect that Wilhelm's text had been doctored by quasi-Taoist cultists, quite possibly disaffected Confucians, who were devoted or addicted to altered states of consciousness."  Enough other reference shows its the niwan, so worrying about yintang is very very secon-dary

 

It is clear from Clear'ys notes  that the center being referred to here is the lower dantian.

 

 

I hope you dont think I'm picking on you

[joeblast]

21 hours ago, Wells said:

 

Maybe you should read the book once more.

I bought the darn thing 3 times and gave it away each time.  Anyone got a soft copy?  lol

Edited December 15, 2017 by joeblast
I've read it, just not in a long time, and cant go back to reference it

[thelerner]

4 hours ago, joeblast said:

I've stated this a few times over as time's gone on - take it literally - turn the light around!  Do exactly, simply, that!  Its especially potent with the niwan,

Are you able to expand that.. explain it as a meditation exercise?  Or no, its just -turn the light around, preferably in the niwan.  

 

I consider light anything under 8 or 9 pounds.  I know some consider light to be awareness, others consider light to be an inner vision of brightness.  Others go further and say it really does look Golden Flower-ish, though often people's assumptions influence there inner vision.  

 

Similarly niwan, is often taken as third eye area, though deeper readings are it's in 9 sections.  The more I do, the 'deeper' into the head I'll place my focus, though it naturally seems to go a little lower then my 'aim'..  eye level instead classically above the eyes.

 

Often I'll see a light blob in my third eye section, which I sometimes 'hold' in place.  At times its almost eye-like, though that getting a little anthropomorphic.

[joeblast]

14 minutes ago, thelerner said:

Are you able to expand that.. explain it as a meditation exercise?  Or no, its just -turn the light around, preferably in the niwan.  

 

I consider light anything under 8 or 9 pounds.  I know some consider light to be awareness, others consider light to be an inner vision of brightness.  Others go further and say it really does look Golden Flower-ish, though often people's assumptions influence there inner vision.  

 

Similarly niwan, is often taken as third eye area, though deeper readings are it's in 9 sections.  The more I do, the 'deeper' into the head I'll place my focus, though it naturally seems to go a little lower then my 'aim'..  eye level instead classically above the eyes.

 

Often I'll see a light blob in my third eye section, which I sometimes 'hold' in place.  At times its almost eye-like, though that getting a little anthropomorphic.

instead of shining outward, shin 'em back onto their source

 

 

[thelerner]

15 minutes ago, joeblast said:

instead of shining outward, shin 'em back onto their source

 

Okay, thanks.

 

Anyone else, who'd like to talk about how they interpret the GF's instructions into how they meditate. 

Not looking for a quote from the book, rather a description of what their practice is. 

[Wu Ming Jen]

6 hours ago, thelerner said:

To those who practice the Golden Flower as a meditation method rather then a philosophical reading..

What do you actually do?  (Please no theories, just what you do)

After just a few years of practicing internal martial art at the age of 20 I had an incredible experience. I searched the world over for some type of explanation. Nothing remotely close from western systems during my research.

 

After years of failing to find the right written words I discovered the golden flower the first time I read it I was was like this is describing my own experience how wonderful. So How did this happen.

 

For me I was simply sitting outside on the ground for some meditation and everything was illuminated a great sense of peace and happiness overcame me. This experience was not fleeting it lasted for weeks on end never leaving the experience.

 

I had many incredible things happen being around other people. I was able to put my thoughts in their minds with out a word from me they could understand my thoughts. This is just one of the manifestation of this state of being much more to add maybe latter.

[turtlehermit]

Wilhelm's translation was flawed. The Golden Flower method is similar to the majority of other Taoist alchemical texts. The Hui Ming Ching, Dao De Jing, Canton qi, Yellow Court, Nei jing, etc,etc, are all unanimous on the location of the "centre" being the Lower Dantian. "Soil", "earth" and all things yellow and good are cultivated in the Lower Dantian, or spleen area. This is where Yin and yang, "fire and water" join together and create the elixir. Wilhelm mistranslated this one term and created much confusion, Cleary and other later translator's confirmed this, stating he had little understanding of the terms and concepts. "know the white, keep to the black", "the saint wears rough-hewn clothes, but cherishes a piece of jade in his bosom", "empty the heart and fill the belly". It is very obvious when you read many taoist texts, they are not talking about the third eye here.