Cutting the root of desire

[Gunther]

Enlightenment is the happiness independent of outer circumstances.

Once you realise, that it's not the object of desire (new car, house, girl/boyfriend) that makes you happy, but the momentary feeling of desirelessness when you get what you want, it's a great revelation. And what a laugh at the simplicity of it. What could be easier than sit down, relax, entertain/pursue no desire and be happy. This is called cutting the root of desire.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Gunther

[Gunther]

[windwalker]

3 hours ago, Gunther said:

What could be easier than sit down, relax, entertain/pursue no desire and be happy. This is called cutting the root of desire.

 

is not having "no desire" a desire?

How would one cut the root by planting another seed ?

 

[Gunther]

33 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

is not having "no desire" a desire?

How would one cut the root by planting another seed ?

 

No desire means no desire.

You mean the desire to have no desire

Which would be the ultimate desire.

The only way to deal with it IMHO is to accept it, be aware of it, and it will pass.

Keeping in mind, one needs the conviction/realisation that you are already in the natural desireless happy state, and any form of desire is a distraction/fiction of the restless ambitious mind.

In other words your natural state (happy, desireless) is obscured by the desire for objects outside of you. Those objects are desired to be desireless only, not as things in themselves(impermanent) Which is obviously self defeating. It is too simple to understand for most

Edited November 10, 2017 by Gunther

[Stosh]

47 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

is not having "no desire" a desire?

How would one cut the root by planting another seed ?

 

May I suggest one can react before desire to act is formulated, If so , the tree is there whole before its seed germinates. If you watch yourself really really closely , even typing posts , you may see this can be true. One may not always act like this ... but I am thinking is is more common than one considers it to be.  Thats why caligraphy and martial arts and wu wei and meditation etc , Are the way they are. The source of who one is , precedes who they believe they are . 

I am just suggesting this , its not an argument I am presenting. 

[Gunther]

12 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Thats why caligraphy and martial arts and wu wei and meditation etc , Are the way they are. The source of who one is , precedes who they believe they are . 

We all have moments of relaxation when we are content and happy as we are for no particular reason. If you then follow the mind unawares it soon takes you into all kind of daydreams, ideas, thoughts, plans, and before you know it your natural state is obscured. You feel bored or whatever, and now you feel you have to go out and buy a drink to regain that happiness.

So one needs to be aware how the conditioned mind fabricates all kind of needs and desires and leads you down the garden path again😀😀 

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Gunther

[Lost in Translation]

1 hour ago, windwalker said:

 

is not having "no desire" a desire?

How would one cut the root by planting another seed ?

 

 

Exhaustion. You need to exhaust the urge. When you have tried everything and failed and just sit down and say "I give up!" - that is when you arrive.

[Stosh]

42 minutes ago, Gunther said:

We all have moments of relaxation when we are content and happy as we are for no particular reason. If you then follow the mind unawares it soon takes you into all kind of daydreams, ideas, thoughts, plans, and before you know it your natural state is obscured. You feel bored or whatever, and now you feel you have to go out and buy a drink to regain that happiness.

So one needs to be aware how the conditioned mind fabricates all kind of needs and desires and leads you down the garden path again😀😀 

 

Yes , exactly . Nicely put. 

[allinone]

38 minutes ago, Gunther said:

We all have moments of relaxation when we are content and happy as we are for no particular reason. If you then follow the mind unawares it soon takes you into all kind of daydreams, ideas, thoughts, plans, and before you know it your natural state is obscured. You feel bored or whatever, and now you feel you have to go out and buy a drink to regain that happiness.

So one needs to be aware how the conditioned mind fabricates all kind of needs and desires and leads you down the garden path again😀😀 

 

 

the order of the things, relaxation-->daydream-->boredom, you also need be able to do it backwards, starting from boredom and without going to bed or fun activity but you feel how a dozing off for a sec releases a substance what takes away pain.

 

practice seclusion, its like subtle weightlifting, it is hard to do it, like weights destroy muscles likewise boredom will destroy your bones and fats and everything else, tills you get into a limit mentally and body will switch off and releases activates other substance what feels satisfactionly.

 

Also you will learn a pathway for a brain doing everyday activities and then seeing someone coming and not appreciate the pathways then it is painful too and the pain will go into sensual organs it is very hard not to come angry and the outburst comes suddenly during unawareness and it will feel satisfying.

---------------

So i have seen complaints on zen buddhists are angry and serious...well noobs are the happy observers.

[Marblehead]

3 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

Exhaustion. You need to exhaust the urge. When you have tried everything and failed and just sit down and say "I give up!" - that is when you arrive.

I generally end up saying "Fuck it."

 

[Marblehead]

Good thread.  Yes, the desire to be without desire is just one more desire complicating one's life.

 

Obviously I like the concept of "contentment".  It suggests being without desire.  Sure, we still have to chop wood and carry water.  That's part of living.

 

The state of wu wei is a state without desire.  

[Gunther]

51 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Sure, we still have to chop wood and carry water.  That's part of living.

 

The state of wu wei is a state without desire.  

Yeah, no desire doesn't mean stay in bed for the rest of your life😀😀

[Stosh]

It would sound less unappealing, if it were a state, where one was at ease, with the state of things as they are, were, and are to be, whatever that appears to be, including the change that one has effected , is effecting , and will effect. 

Kind of like that thing where ' everything is suffering' it sounds horrible in english.. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Stosh

[thelerner]

Best I can do is downgrade desires into preferences,

ie I prefer this to that, but it's all good, cept when its not.   

[Gunther]

19 hours ago, windwalker said:

 

is not having "no desire" a desire?

How would one cut the root by planting another seed ?

 

Just reading that again. It doesn't make sense for a simpleton like me.

You don't plant another seed. You seen through that mind game. Finished with that enlightenment nonsense. You don't need it. The Buddha is dead.

Long live the Buddha😀

[windwalker]

23 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Just reading that again. It doesn't make sense for a simpleton like me.

You don't plant another seed. You seen through that mind game. Finished with that enlightenment nonsense. You don't need it. The Buddha is dead.

Long live the Buddha😀

 

 

seems like the seed is alive, well and growing.

 

indeed long live the Buddha.

You might try looking at zen or some of the daoist work

to catch my meaning,,,,

[Gunther]

26 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

 

seems like the seed is alive, well and growing.

 

indeed long live the Buddha.

You might try looking at zen or some of the daoist work

to catch my meaning,,,,

I know exactly what you mean.

What I'm saying is, you are painting legs onto a snake, there is no need , it's just a mind game we are so fond of playing 😀

Edited November 11, 2017 by Gunther

[windwalker]

2 minutes ago, Gunther said:

I know exactly what you mean.

What I'm saying is you painting legs onto a snake, there is no need , it's just a mind game we are so fond of playing 😀

 

so stop playing.....I'm not.

 

just noted what you wrote and found it interesting. 

no point in responding, I wont, others may have some interesting thoughts to share.

It would be good reading them....

Edited November 11, 2017 by windwalker

[Marblehead]

I have no desires at the moment.

 

(I am in acceptance of reality.)

 

[Gunther]

26 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

so stop playing.....I'm not.

 

just noted what you wrote and found it interesting. 

no point in responding, I wont, others may have some interesting thoughts to share.

It would be good reading them....

Yes, I read all the comments😀

The desire to have no desire you speak about is in reality the last desperate attempt of the ego to cling to desire. Without desire the notion of a separate self cannot survive.

So since it(the persona or ego) cannot encounter the luminous self aware Buddha mind it is faced with annihilation, nihilism 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Gunther

[Marblehead]

1 minute ago, Gunther said:

 

So since it cannot encounter the luminous self aware Buddha mind it is faced with annihilation, nihilism 

I don't view you as being a Nihilist.

 

Don't worry about what Buddha supposedly said, listen to Chuang Tzu.

 

[Gunther]

5 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I have no desires at the moment.

 

(I am in acceptance of reality.)

 

I guessed that. Maybe Chuang Tsu has pulled your flying rug from under you😀😀😀

[Gunther]

Just now, Marblehead said:

I don't view you as being a Nihilist.

 

Don't worry about what Buddha supposedly said, listen to Chuang Tzu.

 

The notion of separate self is nihilistic or at best materialistic by definition

[Marblehead]

Just now, Gunther said:

The notion of separate self is nihilistic or at best materialistic by definition

I have, on numerous occasions stated that I am a Physicalist and a Materialist.  I don't do Voodoo.

 

[Gunther]

6 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I have, on numerous occasions stated that I am a Physicalist and a Materialist.  I don't do Voodoo.

 

Nor do I. But it's pretty clear that our range of perception is very limited.i don't feel Chuang Tsu is materialistic, just not specific about the mystery. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Gunther