What happened to the Matriarchal Cultures

[gendao]

5 minutes ago, Kar3n said:

At the top of the first post in the thread, it states, in red caps, that it was split from another topic.

Well, mine wasn't.  And it would also help if it all these were also hyperlinked, so you could see where the original posts were taken from in context.

[windwalker]

54 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

very simple, in our society smart women who are top engineers will not get the place she would have if she had been a big hairy male....

 

can you let railes  know that you dont have a problem with men...

he seems a little upset when I used big hairy females.

[windwalker]

4 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

You incessantly post Molyneux and Black Pigeon who are both known misogynists who blame the ills of the world on women. Obviously, you seem to be in agreement with their ideology, otherwise you would not be foolish enough to post such blather.

 

considering the topic  

 

"1. I am a believer in traditional matriarchal societies that kept us safely alive and thriving and happy (sic) for a million years.  I don't think we ever got anything right on this planet since the patriarchal takeover.  As in, never, and nothing.  As in, an ongoing disaster of a few thousand years with no end in sight.  As in, I don't think there's a political system that can grow out of a patriarchal set-up that will ever bring anything but misery to the majority.  I don't care what it's called.  I call it zombie patriarchy.  It can manifest as zombie capitalism, zombie socialism, or zombie feudalism.  They're all the same to me.  Dead on arrival."

 

I thought and think they present a good counter point backed by real world examples.

you seem to focus on the messenger and not the message.. You also seem unable to understand a person can look at many different view points with out necessarily agreeing with them or dis agreeing with them but instead try to present others who you dont know as unable to do this,,,maybe you cant, you cant entertain opposing view points..

 

ah well always something you can work on.

 

Labels with out examples are just labels...

[ralis]

16 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

considering the topic  

 

"1. I am a believer in traditional matriarchal societies that kept us safely alive and thriving and happy (sic) for a million years.  I don't think we ever got anything right on this planet since the patriarchal takeover.  As in, never, and nothing.  As in, an ongoing disaster of a few thousand years with no end in sight.  As in, I don't think there's a political system that can grow out of a patriarchal set-up that will ever bring anything but misery to the majority.  I don't care what it's called.  I call it zombie patriarchy.  It can manifest as zombie capitalism, zombie socialism, or zombie feudalism.  They're all the same to me.  Dead on arrival."

 

I thought and think they present a good counter point backed by real world examples.

you seem to focus on the messenger and not the message.. You also seem unable to understand a person can look at many different view points with out necessarily agreeing with them or dis agreeing with them but instead try to present others who you dont know as unable to do this,,,maybe you cant, you cant entertain opposing view points..

 

ah well always something you can work on.

 

Labels with out examples are just labels...

 

Where is the quote from? Further, when someone such as the Black Pigeon frames an argument from the outset in that women's liberated sexual preferences are the cause of the downfall of a civilization, I take that seriously. He made a statement of opinion and not fact. That is a critique of his message and not the messenger as you so desperately want to believe. You take me for an idiot which I am not.

 

Propaganda and the recognition of, either by Black Pigeon, Molyneux or any other slick propagandist is the basis for the 'big lie'.

Edited November 17, 2017 by ralis

[vonkrankenhaus]

"Matriarchy" used to be default.

 

Because women are gestating, birthing, rearing, and feeding all human beings.

 

At that time, humans were living and eating locally, in immediate surroundings.

 

In this setting, woman is "in charge".

 

Once long-distance trading and abstracted "commerce" became widespread, the focus "of value" shifted from the immediate to the distant and long-term. Long overland (or sea) trading require protection, which gives rise to "politics".

 

So after that time, the role and place of women was different.

 

Many women did and do participate in trading and politics, but by nature, they are bigger than these endeavors.

 

Woman understands creation intrinsically, internally.

 

Man always looking outside himself, hence his beginning such long-distance trades, and also looking especially to woman to become a "complete human experience".

 

Of course, this has been abstracted and stretched out of all proportion into so many things - patriarchy, feminism - none of which seem to penetrate anything but very superficial views of this overall phenomena.

 

Fake "society" concepts are at odds with reality - Yeah - no kidding.

 

Woman is the center of human life now just as in the past, but few understand this.

 

And at the center of this, the "uterus", where human is developing - is, originally, "emptiness".

 

It is amazing. 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Edited November 17, 2017 by vonkrankenhaus
mis spell

[cold]

                                                 Public Service Announcement

 

                              "I don't have to attend every argument I am invited to."

                                            

                                                              W.C. Fields

[rene]

1 hour ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

"Matriarchy" used to be default.

 

Because women are gestating, birthing, rearing, and feeding all human beings.

 

At that time, humans were living and eating locally, in immediate surroundings.

 

In this setting, woman is "in charge".

 

Once long-distance trading and abstracted "commerce" became widespread, the focus "of value" shifted from the immediate to the distant and long-term. Long overland (or sea) trading require protection, which gives rise to "politics".

 

So after that time, the role and place of women was different.

 

Many women did and do participate in trading and politics, but by nature, they are bigger than these endeavors.

 

Woman understands creation intrinsically, internally.

 

Man always looking outside himself, hence his beginning such long-distance trades, and also looking especially to woman to become a "complete human experience".

 

Of course, this has been abstracted and stretched out of all proportion into so many things - patriarchy, feminism - none of which seem to penetrate anything but very superficial views of this overall phenomena.

 

Fake "society" concepts are at odds with reality - Yeah - no kidding.

 

Woman is the center of human life now just as in the past, but few understand this.

 

And at the center of this, the "uterus", where human is developing - is, originally, "emptiness".

 

It is amazing. 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

VonKrankenhaus - excellent post!!

 

This whole thread could be replaced with just this post, imo. 

 

.

[rene]

2 hours ago, gendao said:

Well, and that whole Talk Trump thread was started out of the blue from one of my posts split off from another, making it seem like I really wanted to talk about Trump, when I don't, lol.  I'm really not that interested in that topic, just like you aren't in this one.

 

I think if and when these posts are split off into their own threads, they need to be prefaced with a link specifying from where and how they were created by the mods from other threads.  Otherwise, it gives the false impression that someone is a lot more vested in some topic, than they really are...

 

LOLOL and I always wondered why you started that thread. I was really surprised to find out that I'd also started a Topic  in Off-grid...with a one-line post jumping on Marblehead. At least yours has a good title.  

[CloudHands]

I mainly see arguments about women's role and position, big debate but maybe let's skip it... Please TM would you expose the line of the party you're promoting ?

[Anastasia]

On 16.11.2017 at 9:20 PM, Taomeow said:

Anastasia,

 

don't use me as a springboard to launch into your hobbyhorse subjects.

 

And don't try to control me by ascribing feelings to me I didn't proclaim.  "I sense a lot of anger from you" is a manipulative and dishonest move behooving only a gaslighting sociopath.  Don't fall for the seeming ease of dominating someone by telling them what they feel.  Some people indeed are manipulable by this method, you can shame and belittle them easily by telling them what reprehensible emotions you "sense" about them.  I am not one of them, so don't waste your energy playing this game with me.  I've known too many players, professionals some of them, demons some others.  I eat them for breakfast.  Peacefully, with no anger.  I don't ever get angry at my food.   

 

Edit: typo

Dear Taomeow

 

I have no interest in playing games with you. I was simply sharing my observations and views. If you think that my perception of you was wrong, okay, let's say it was wrong.

 

Best wishes

Anastasia

Edited November 17, 2017 by Anastasia

[Cookie Monster]

.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Ocean Form

[Marblehead]

52 minutes ago, Ocean Form said:

I believe the people on reality tv shows are picked to create entertainment on screen.

 

 

 

And they do only a half-asses job at it, IMO.

 

[Wells]

6 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Women in a patriarchy do not seek women's roles because patriarchy has made those roles, women acting as women, undesirable, unrewarded, and has made women occupying them into objects of handling (not people) of low value and quality.

 

Absolutely deluded views you have! You are against feminism, not against patriarchy!

Correction:

Patriarchic societies want women in archetypical women roles and women who are mothers, houswifes etc. are highly regarded, idealized and rewarded. Therefore, women in typical women roles enjoy many advantages.

Feminist societies don't want women in typical women roles and try to brainwash women into the belief that wanting children, being a mother, a housewife etc. means to succumb to male dominance and instead women are supposed to play men roles. Women who desire to be mothers etc. are looked down at and despised. Therefore, women in typical women roles don't enjoy many advantages or rewards.

[dawei]

16 minutes ago, Wells said:

 

Absolutely deluded views you have! You are against feminism, not against patriarchy!

Correction:

Patriarchic societies want women in archetypical women roles and women who are mothers, houswifes etc. are highly regarded, idealized and rewarded. Therefore, women in typical women roles enjoy many advantages.

Feminist societies don't want women in typical women roles and try to brainwash women into the belief that wanting children, being a mother, a housewife etc. means to succumb to male dominance and instead women are supposed to play men roles. Women who desire to be mothers etc. are looked down at and despised. Therefore, women in typical women roles don't enjoy many advantages or rewards.

 

I think that what TM was suggesting is... just kind of backwards... well, that is my take. 

 

I might say, at least the way you describe it is not what I'm reading...Feminist society is not matriarchal in what has been described.

[Wells]

The social experiment quoted in this thread proves that a society that would have depended in every important decision on a "council of women" never would have ascended beyond living in the mud!

Or, as the sociologist said it, beyond "living in the stone age"!

That's reality!

Edited November 17, 2017 by Wells

[Wells]

17 minutes ago, dawei said:

Feminist society is not matriarchal in what has been described.

 

Agreed.

[Wells]

Feminism seems to be a perverted anti-thesis to patriarchy and it inevitably destroys any society which previously bloomed under patriarchy.

[dawei]

5 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Dawei split off this thread from another, where I merely responded to something Hillary-Trump, something that purportedly made a non-supporter of Hillary a misogynistic women hater -- I objected to that, tried to explain why exactly.  Wasn't planning on launching this as a separate topic, I damn well know better by now.  Of course got pulled in, having inadvertently become the instigator, but now I pull myself out. 

 

5 hours ago, gendao said:

Well, and that whole Talk Trump thread was started out of the blue from one of my posts split off from another, making it seem like I really wanted to talk about Trump, when I don't, lol.  I'm really not that interested in that topic, just like you aren't in this one.

 

2 hours ago, rene said:

LOLOL and I always wondered why you started that thread. I was really surprised to find out that I'd also started a Topic  in Off-grid...with a one-line post jumping on Marblehead. At least yours has a good title.  

 

yea, yea, yea... No Admin deed should go unpunished 

 

As I said in my one post so far... I find the topic fascinating.. and Talk Trump keeps having so many interesting side-topics that will drown out in in-fighting... why not just start another topic and get two fights going 

 

So folks want more colorful disclaimer on splits, like: 

 

 "this topic was split by staff...   I'm [first poster of split], and I damn well do not approve of this split "   

 

But the topic grew more and more interesting to say the least... Read 3 pages and answered each post in my head cuz I had to keep reading 

 

The varied views still left a divided feeling for some (I think); sometimes folks feel what they said didn't come across or understood... sometimes assumptions drive the thinking (I think). 

 

Like, I don't think one can just use a definition (based on the past) and then think that is how it would unfold (in present or future)... I don't think the idea is to go back to Chinese Walking Marriages  (or more anciently when they said children grew up without knowing their fathers.... men truly walking away after some play).

 

I think Gendao's Island show reveals the problem with testing things to extremes...  there is no point is simply trying to setup an environment that is neither natural nor ever likely to be the case.   At least test something closer to reality.  A hunter-gatherer test would even be better

 

I recall a christian comedian once saying (lots of liberty to retell it as it was a long time ago)...  the answer to 15 million men demanding control and power is not 15 million women demanding control and power.

[rene]

Oh dawei. Sigh.... There are so many unrelated things in your post that it would take at least 4 separate threads to reply! I know! I'll just answer each one in my head (thanks for the idea!) and that way I can make up your replies to my comments and if we go too far off topic I can split them into more mental threads! Yay!

 

Seriously, thanks for doing the splitting. Your choices are good ones and all of your efforts are appreciated, for that matter. I think most here don't realize the amount of work you do in the background, keeping a forum this size running and maintained. At least I didn't know, until I got to peek behind the curtain. So please just keep doin what you do, splittin as you deem good...and it's all good.

[Apech]

3 minutes ago, rene said:

Oh dawei. Sigh.... There are so many unrelated things in your post that it would take at least 4 separate threads to reply! I know! I'll just answer each one in my head (thanks for the idea!) and that way I can make up your replies to my comments and if we go too far off topic I can split them into more mental threads! Yay!

 

Seriously, thanks for doing the splitting. Your choices are good ones and all of your efforts are appreciated, for that matter. I think most here don't realize the amount of work you do in the background, keeping a forum this size running and maintained. At least I didn't know, until I got to peek behind the curtain. So please just keep doin what you do, splittin as you deem good...and it's all good.

 

 

Rene's looking for promotion

[rene]

7 minutes ago, Apech said:

Rene's looking for promotion

 

That's right!

Some day I will RULE THE WORLD!!!

You think Matriarchy is dangerous??

Wait till you all are subjected to...

 

 

RENE-triarchy!!

 

[Aetherous]

15 minutes ago, rene said:

 

That's right!

Some day I will RULE THE WORLD!!!

You think Matriarchy is dangerous??

Wait till you all are subjected to...

 

 

RENE-triarchy!!

 

 

I like it.

[liminal_luke]

1 hour ago, Wells said:

 

Absolutely deluded views you have! You are against feminism, not against patriarchy!

Correction:

Patriarchic societies want women in archetypical women roles and women who are mothers, houswifes etc. are highly regarded, idealized and rewarded. Therefore, women in typical women roles enjoy many advantages.

Feminist societies don't want women in typical women roles and try to brainwash women into the belief that wanting children, being a mother, a housewife etc. means to succumb to male dominance and instead women are supposed to play men roles. Women who desire to be mothers etc. are looked down at and despised. Therefore, women in typical women roles don't enjoy many advantages or rewards.

 

I disagree with you about feminism.  Feminism doesn`t say that women should be in stereotypically feminine roles or in stereotypically male roles.  Feminism says women should be in the roles they choose.  

[dawei]

7 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I disagree with you about feminism.  Feminism doesn`t say that women should be in stereotypically feminine roles or in stereotypically male roles.  Feminism says women should be in the roles they choose.  

 

So what did you think of his next comment here?  A bit far in the end but I can see what he means in the start.

 

1 hour ago, Wells said:

Feminism seems to be a perverted anti-thesis to patriarchy and it inevitably destroys any society which previously bloomed under patriarchy.

 

 

[rene]

37 minutes ago, Apeiron&Peiron said:

Will there be oppression or liberation? 

 

There'll be both at the same time!

 

Yeah!!!!