Grief; Coping with the death of a spouse

[manitou]

This is going to sound really dumb.  Joe, like many guys, loved to mess around with the sound on the TV.  He had one of those sound sticks that plugs in somehow and makes it sound like surround sound if you're watching a movie.  I kind of hated the thing, he just wouldn't leave the sound alone.  Ever.

 

The day following his death, I was crying my eyes out, and said something out loud to him like 'Can you let me know that you hear me???'  It wasn't but two seconds later that the TV (which had been on very low) suddenly started BOOMING - the sound stick came on all by itself.  I ran around the room looking for the darned remote to turn it off - it was in the basket next to where Joe sat.  At first I was just really confused, and then I realized that Joe had somehow answered me, electrically.  

 

I think the veil is very thin..

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, manitou said:

This is going to sound really dumb.  Joe, like many guys, loved to mess around with the sound on the TV.  He had one of those sound sticks that plugs in somehow and makes it sound like surround sound if you're watching a movie.  I kind of hated the thing, he just wouldn't leave the sound alone.  Ever.

 

The day following his death, I was crying my eyes out, and said something out loud to him like 'Can you let me know that you hear me???'  It wasn't but two seconds later that the TV (which had been on very low) suddenly started BOOMING - the sound stick came on all by itself.  I ran around the room looking for the darned remote to turn it off - it was in the basket next to where Joe sat.  At first I was just really confused, and then I realized that Joe had somehow answered me, electrically.  

 

I think the veil is very thin..

 

Very cool.  My younger brother died on cancer when we were in our twenties.  In our discussions, he promised to try to make contact after death if possible. We were lucky that he was able to pass in my parents home.  At the moment of death, his dog that had avoided him for the week before came running over and jumped onto the bed.  I first thought that is was the dog knowing and showing his love.  But, rather than really go to my brother, he sat at the end of the bed at attention and stared at all of us.  Watching us and taking it all in.  This went on for about 10 minutes and then he dropped down and resumed more normal dog like activity.  To me, my little brother had kept his promise... 

 

Much love  

[manitou]

4 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Manitou,

 

I haven`t been in your situation but I came across this quote by someone who has, Joan Didion.  It`s from a book called The Year of Magical Thinking.

 

“Grief turns out to be a place none of us know until we reach it. We anticipate (we know) that someone close to us could die, but we do not look beyond the few days or weeks that immediately follow such an imagined death. We misconstrue the nature of even those few days or weeks. We might expect if the death is sudden to feel shock. We do not expect this shock to be obliterative, dislocating to both body and mind. We might expect that we will be prostrate, inconsolable, crazy with loss. We do not expect to be literally crazy, cool customers who believe their husband is about to return and need his shoes.” 

 

Joan Didion

 

 

What a great title.  The Year of Magical Thinking.  But, on the other hand, I do believe in a bit of magical thinking.  I've seen it in ceremonial healing ceremonies.  But as it applies to a sudden void of a spouse?  Yes, I can see subconsciously waiting for him to return and need his shoes.

 

 I went to a bereavement group right after Joe died.  I was still numb, I had cried some - a lot - and really hard.  I thought it would be appropriate to go to the group.  What I found was a handful of people who were 6 or 7 months into this thing, still having their eyes well up with tears when they would mention a motorcycle ride they took together - anything would set it off.  It wasn't time yet for me to be at that particular group.  I had absolutely no idea that the process was such a long one.  Now I understand societies where the widow will wear black for a year.  I'm nearly two months into this - I just had no idea.  This is quite something, and I can see that it is really going to be a life-changing event. It's funny - well meaning folks will send a nice card right after the death, usually with a 'Sorry for your Loss' sentiment (which if I hear one more time I think I'll gag).  And then the event is out of their minds, they did their duty, they sent a card.  I know one thing.  I will never again be one of those people that just sends a card and forgets about any further contact..  The real hurt begins after the numbness stops, and that can be weeks after the death.  That's when the real help is needed.  And that's what Rene has understood, and been there for me.

 

How unreal this all is.  This thread has helped me more than you can possibly imagine.  

[centertime]

I have noticed, sometimes music can help with feelings...if you find the right music..

when there is pain.. 

here is one...

 

[cold]

3 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

What a great title.  The Year of Magical Thinking.  But, on the other hand, I do believe in a bit of magical thinking.  I've seen it in ceremonial healing ceremonies.  But as it applies to a sudden void of a spouse?  Yes, I can see subconsciously waiting for him to return and need his shoes.

 

 I went to a bereavement group right after Joe died.  I was still numb, I had cried some - a lot - and really hard.  I thought it would be appropriate to go to the group.  What I found was a handful of people who were 6 or 7 months into this thing, still having their eyes well up with tears when they would mention a motorcycle ride they took together - anything would set it off.  It wasn't time yet for me to be at that particular group.  I had absolutely no idea that the process was such a long one.  Now I understand societies where the widow will wear black for a year.  I'm nearly two months into this - I just had no idea.  This is quite something, and I can see that it is really going to be a life-changing event. It's funny - well meaning folks will send a nice card right after the death, usually with a 'Sorry for your Loss' sentiment (which if I hear one more time I think I'll gag).  And then the event is out of their minds, they did their duty, they sent a card.  I know one thing.  I will never again be one of those people that just sends a card and forgets about any further contact..  The real hurt begins after the numbness stops, and that can be weeks after the death.  That's when the real help is needed.  And that's what Rene has understood, and been there for me.

 

How unreal this all is.  This thread has helped me more than you can possibly imagine.  

 

Consider that the nice meaning folks may be doing all they can. I know that's true for me. I only have a few funerals left in me.

I knew a Oncology practice five Doctors a dozen nurses or so. Doctors worked six months a year that's all they could take.

Standard procedure for the nurses was call in sick if you can't perform at 99.99 percent. And they did often.

 

I have two older siblings two younger siblings and their spouses kids and a few close friends whose funeral I will attend. Otherwise I make myself available to walk and talk to listen to cry with.

And remind myself I'm doing the best I can ....

 

Please check in this thread daily I find comfort in that, thanks!

[blue eyed snake]

yes, the veil can be very thin, and you're open for it.  Boom

 

May I share a memory?

 

after my brother died, my mum could not let go. He always drove an old yellow deuxchevaux, with that strange noise those cars make. So, she and I could hear his car driving up to the house. I heard  it and looked at her and vice versa. But my dad didn't hear a thing.

noises in the house too, we lived in an old creaky house. A house were you can hear who is upstairs or walking the stairs. Mom and I heard it, dad did not. It took a real long time for her to let him go, and for him to let go. He died of suicide, makes it harder.

 

Bereavement, takes a year my love. And the most heard thing of people who lost their partners is that the first year they get help from family and friends. After that , well a year is a long time isn't it....

But then you have to recreate your life without him. The highlights of the year again. Whether that be Christmas or private things like looking at the first flower from some plant. Little intimate things.

 

sorry, I should not let you look so far forwards maybe, take it a day, an hour at the time.

 

that boom, I do not know Joe, but from what you've written about him, sounds just like him. A memory to carry with you I think

[manitou]

1 hour ago, centertime said:

I have noticed, sometimes music can help with feelings...if you find the right music..

when there is pain.. 

here is one...

 

 

 

 

Very nice, centertime.  We just all have our turn - and right now it's mine.

[manitou]

1 hour ago, blue eyed snake said:

It took a real long time for her to let him go, and for him to let go. He died of suicide, makes it harder.

 

 

 

 

I can't even imagine the pain of a loved one committing suicide.  My heart breaks for your family.  So many other feelings would enter into the picture.  Thank you for sharing your story, BES.  This seven weeks has seemed more like seven days.  Like time has stood still in some way.  Maybe that's why it takes a year.  Because time stands still.

Edited November 15, 2017 by manitou

[C T]

sometimes it helps when we give ourselves permission to be vulnerable. 

 

It is actually ok to do that. Those who grief seldom find the space to acknowledge that. 

 

Most are either caught up in guilt, pain or anger. These are all very contractive states that prevents reconciliation. 

People tend to busy themselves with these emotions out of fear of vulnerability.

Its like building walls to shield reality out. 

 

To be open is to be vulnerable.

 

To be real is to be vulnerable. 

 

Reality, at some point, ensures that all beings will have to yield, in one way or another. 

or else get broken. 

 

Be not afraid to be real. 

[manitou]

Really excellent point CT.  But I guess I can only get real at the pace that I'm able... 

 

I don't feel any guilt or anger.  Let me take that back.  I feel guilt that I couldn't 'control' how Joe died. I wish he had died at home, in  bed, in my arms.  I feel guilty because before his second operation he told me that 'these people don't know what they're doing', and I didn't do anything about it. He said that he could hear them arguing, even under sedation, about what tube went where.  I assumed that he was in an altered state and I didn't take him seriously.   After all, he was in a big hospital, between operations, and I didn't know what to do about that.  Pull him out?  I just assumed he was under the influence of the sedation.  And then, that night, he had a massive brain bleed.   I feel guilty because I was checking into putting him in a hospice rather than trying to care for him at home after his massive stroke.  I do feel guilty.  If there's anger to come, it hasn't come yet.

 

Yes, I am caught up in pain.  I can say that it is diminishing a tiny bit day by day; and I was just able tonight to bang on the keyboard for an hour, for the first time since this happened.  I am in a forced alone situation; I have virtually no friends here in Ohio, never gotten to know anybody since we moved here 8 years back.  All my time is spent alone; don't know if that's good or bad; maybe if I had a lot of friends here it would delay the whole process.  I just don't know.  It is what it is.  I'm trying to be as real as I can be.

 

My hard shell of strength against vulnerability shattered greatly during my forced PTSD retirement from the LAPD 36 years ago, and then coming to grips with my alcoholism.  I suppose I have rebuilt some of the shell.  It sure doesn't feel like it.  I feel about as vulnerable as a turtle on its back right now.  But maybe I need to give myself more permission, I just don't know.  If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears.

[cold]

I'm in the permission camp!

Best wishes

[blue eyed snake]

yes, reminds me of an then eightyearold niece who was crying to her hearts content when her grandmum died.

 

someone tried to console her with words like: "grandma doesn't have any pain anymore, it really better this way"

Then she sort of yelled: of course I know that, but I'm sad, I'll never see grandmum again and that hurts!!!!

 

and she cried further, 

the healthy response of a kid

 

when i wrote I saw:

crying to her hearts content...

maybe thats sort of what CT means

[cold]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 11:08 AM, cold said:

 

 

"From a medical standpoint, the third and most probable explanation is that Jesus was indeed dead, and what his disciples experienced were mere hallucinations evoked by the grief over the loss of their beloved teacher. It is clinically known as "Post-Bereavement Hallucinations Experiences" or PBHE."

Abhijt Naskat

 

 

Above I opened the door a crack

 

Below bes marches right in fearlessly

 

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 0:41 PM, blue eyed snake said:

 

hallucinations...

I remember when my dad left us,  a sudden and by most of my sibs totally unexpected death.

I came back from my vacation and sat with him, I clearly heard him talking to me, he had an important message for me. I've never regarded that as an hallucination, he just needed to tell me something after his body was no longer functioning.

same with my brother.

 

I don't know what happens after death, but I do know that people contact us, when there's need and when we can hear.

 

Me thinks, as with all those things, go along with it but don't get ' sucked in'  by it.

 

love again,

cry when you need and look for diversion when you need that.

 

Bums trying to help other bums is why I love this place!

[cold]

Manitou you remain in my thoughts and prayers and hoping you are moving towards greater peace!

[cold]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 1:37 PM, cold said:

 

Consider that the nice meaning folks may be doing all they can. I know that's true for me. I only have a few funerals left in me.

I knew a Oncology practice five Doctors a dozen nurses or so. Doctors worked six months a year that's all they could take.

Standard procedure for the nurses was call in sick if you can't perform at 99.99 percent. And they did often.

 

I have two older siblings two younger siblings and their spouses kids and a few close friends whose funeral I will attend. Otherwise I make myself available to walk and talk to listen to cry with.

And remind myself I'm doing the best I can ....

 

Please check in this thread daily I find comfort in that, thanks!

 

Let us know how you be even if it ain't great...

It ain't supposed to great be at this stage ...

 

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 9:44 AM, cold said:

Manitou you remain in my thoughts and prayers and hoping you are moving towards greater peace!

 

 

[Kar3n]

[manitou]

cold, you are a real comfort to me.  I feel a true sincerity and a true caring.  I just drove 3 days from Ohio to Florida, and walking into this empty house in Fla today was just awful. I hate this place now.  I've never felt this empty, I cry as I type this.  Joe's and my connection was not husband and wife, we finally figured out after years, but abused child to abused child.  I just feel right now like I can't go on without him/  It seems like I'll be doing okay for a while, I'm able to string along a few hours even not thinking much about him - and then the deep, painful, tearful purge has to happen one more time.  It's like it builds up and I'm not even aware of it.  And then the only thing to do is to just deeply cry, to somehow hope he's still around me.  The Year of Magical Thinking, and I'm only two months into it.  Our lives were so very wrapped up in each other.  I am so grateful to you for your thoughts and prayers and I appreciate you so much there are no words.  And Karen, what a light, beautiful and loving touch you have.  Thank you again.  The thought of how much I have to do, alone and without help, just overwhelms me.  To sell two houses and move back cross country to California.  All the logistics of that, the timing of trying to find another place - my brother offers to help with that and he'll be shutting down his law practice in a few months so that may work out well.  One day at a time, that's all I can do.

 

I wish I were doing better, and I'm just not.  Someone mentioned the word 'wallowing' in an earlier post and that cut me to the core, as though I'm not supposed to be doing that.  Fuck it.  I can't help it.  I feel like I'm dying.  All the fancy metaphysical words and Buddhist wisdom can't do a darn thing about this.  If I try to shove the feelings down and remain in the realm of the spirit, I have to pay twice as badly for it in the next wallow.  God, I hope this ends some day.  This is just horrible...

[9th]

15 minutes ago, manitou said:

I wish I were doing better, and I'm just not.

 

[9th]

[cold]

manitou, I am both pleased and grateful to hear from you!

 

Every day in tiny increments, so small as to be barely noticeable, the healing inside your mind / body / spirit is occurring.

I mention body because so often its not given enough consideration whilst grieving.

Eating well, sleeping well, talking freely can all be helpful. And being kind to oneself! Fire your harshest critic!

 

A thought that occurred is have you been seen by an acupuncturist?

Their magic lies both in their needles and ability to create a safe caring environment that promotes healing.

Did I mention safe? Can't stress enough your need for a refuge, a place of safety, where you can relax even for a moment!

 

After my Dad passed I sensed this overwhelming fear in my Mom and regular acupuncture treatments helped tremendously!

So did going to daily mass. We attended mass daily for over a year....

Do what ever it takes endeavor to persevere moment by moment.

 

9 hours ago, manitou said:

God, I hope this ends some day.  This is just horrible...

 

Trust me it will. And you will be stronger, wiser, and kinder for having gone thru it!

 

9 hours ago, manitou said:

.  The thought of how much I have to do, alone and without help, just overwhelms me.  To sell two houses and move back cross country to California.  All the logistics of that, the timing of trying to find another place - my brother offers to help with that and he'll be shutting down his law practice in a few months so that may work out well.  One day at a time, that's all I can do.

 

I wish I were doing better, and I'm just not. 

 

Fire the critic who wants more / faster and is critical of progress or lack thereof.

You be in the thick of things, clouded thought is to be expected its part and parcel of grief.

Take your time. Take time to love yourself! Get some hugs!

Take any offers of help seriously.

Moment by moment day by day keep on trying!

 

You remain in my thoughts and prayers peace be with you

[cold]

manitou you and Spotless in particular along with everyone else suffering from loss of a love one remain in my thoughts and prayers that you find peace...

[manitou]

I'm discovering a very interesting thing in this journey.

 

It is truly turning into a journey into self.  As CT said earlier in the thread, it's not really the partner you're grieving for - it's grief for yourself.  Yes, I cry because I miss his presence, I miss the habit of being with someone all the time.  I've been finding lately that I've been doing some periodic crying over horrible things that happened in his youth - like being molested by 3 men who got him drunk when he was very young and molested him.  And then the thoughts turn to my own childhood when something similar would happen - not nearly as horrible as what happened to him, but something very painful to the little girl that I was.  It's as though this grief is a bridge into self and crying out some old grief and pain from my own beginnings.  It's turning into quite a purge.

 

I am realizing at a deep level that our connection was truly one of two really injured children.  It was never really about being married in a traditional husband and wife sense - in fact, probably the last 15 years of our co-habitation we slept in separate bedrooms, and no longer shared physical intimacy except for the rare occasion.  But this explains why we were married and divorced from each other twice, and yet were never able to leave each other.  It was never really about the traditional husband and wife roles.  In fact, the last 6 months of our life together, I had taken to going into his bedroom and tucking him in at night.  At first I just did it in jest, playfully tucking the covers in from his feet all the way up to his shoulders, and then making sure the covers were pulled up over his shoulders.  At that moment, I realized how very much he loved this.  I noticed that his skin would emit this golden glow, his face would almost look like the face of a young boy - and when I saw that, I started doing it nightly.  He just loved it.  And it made me realize how he had never had that - that in fact he didn't know who his parents were and was raised in a reform school.

 

But it's as though there's a bridge between mourning the traumatic things in his young life and then having the thoughts transfer to something comparable in my young life.  Something that I had forgotten.  I have virtually no memory of my childhood, except for the occasional snippet.  Some good, most traumatic.  This is really interesting, and at some level very good for me.

[Aetherous]

On 11/13/2017 at 9:46 AM, manitou said:

 I find numbness on watching things on Netflix like Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad.

 

Seems to me like doing this, or having other things that are distracting, can be great. I wish you the best, Manitou.

[Mig]

My friend, feel free to share and contact those who care about you. I don't know you except I've seen you in some postings but make sure to contact or pm me to just talk and see there are others who care about you. Life is a journey as we all know and this transition time is not easy. The reality is all in our minds and now you can create new habits, make time to enjoy each minute or second of our existence. It is the most beautiful experience to have that human experience. Learn from this experience and then teach others how to overcome or move on to a new experience.

 

All the best

[Miroku]

Hm, I am not the right person to answer probably, but I hope my two cents can help a bit.

I am not sure if the becoming the observer is the right thing to do, but I don't know. I have noticed what helps me a lot is to try to relax in the feeling and realize how everything is impermanent and just like a dream (meaning in is gone quickly and we have only fading memories). The fact that everything is impermanent is not sad fact, it is just a fact, no reason to be depressed from it, it actually makes one feel more free and happier a bit.

From my experience death is a horrible thing to deal with and it takes years to really process it. This year it will be 5 years since my father's passing and I still sometimes catch myself missing him and hoping he could see how far I've got. What I would suggest is laughter. I remember I was soo frustrated with everything for few weeks after his passing until I made a very dark joke about my mother talking to his ashes, that made me laugh for solid several minutes. And it was one of the most relieving experiences in my life. Humor is a process of healing, unless of course it is hurting someone. Also I think you could try reading Pema Chödron's books she writes a lot about dealing with sadness anger and other emotions. Also Tibetan book of living and dying by Sogyal Rinpoche is a good piece of writing (despite the horrible things he has apparently done).

Anyway. Don't expect to things go back the way they were. Don't expect yourself ot be the same. Things change. Be kind to yourself, loving to yourself and give yoruself time and space to heal. Do your best to be happy.

Also, contact Garchen Institute, I think they do rituals for deceased people so you can give them info about him and also maybe photos. Garchen Rinpoche is called a mahasiddha and he really is. Greately compassionate teacher. https://garchen.net/ 
So if you want you can also try to benefit your spouse this way. Or, if you have different religion try rituals in that. Rituals are here to help us and the ones we do them for, so do not underestimate them.

Best wishes, hope my ramblings helped