manitou Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said: I still think of you every evening before bedtime I'll bet your psychic self is picking up on me holding a little Native American rag doll to my heart every night when I go to bed. It makes me cry for a few minutes because he used to have it on his bed. I clutch it to me when I sleep. Odd creatures, us humanoids. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cold Posted January 7, 2018 On 12/31/2017 at 3:24 PM, manitou said: Ten-four, good buddy. Hope you are continuing to feel better ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cold Posted January 9, 2018 On 12/31/2017 at 2:39 PM, cold said: Manitou Please share after you have had the chance to weigh the suggestions / ideas. On 12/31/2017 at 3:24 PM, manitou said: Ten-four, good buddy. Hope this finds you finding increasing peace and or acceptance. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cold Posted January 12, 2018 Hope you had a chance to meet with the grief counselor and got great benefits from the meeting! Either way you remain in my thoughts, and would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted January 13, 2018 Yes, I've had the first meeting. I took the initiative and got everyone's phone number (only 4 of us in the meeting), and I've been keeping in touch every other day. One man in particular was really crying hard during the first session. I called him yesterday and he cried on the phone, but when he hung up he was laughing about something we were talking about. It seems to help me the most to be of help to them. I think this will be a very worthwhile part of the recovery. Thanks, cold. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cold Posted January 13, 2018 Glad to hear, in particular "It seems to help me the most to be of help to them." 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cold Posted January 19, 2018 The first third of winter has almost passed, perusing seed catalogs my imagination runs wild. Pausing only from the frantic planning and sketching, to hold in hope friends suffering lessening with each passing day. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted January 19, 2018 On 1/13/2018 at 10:11 AM, manitou said: I took the initiative and got everyone's phone number (only 4 of us in the meeting), and I've been keeping in touch every other day. Hi again manitou, You have started a new path - being there for each other. Very good. On 1/13/2018 at 10:11 AM, manitou said: I called him yesterday and he cried on the phone, but when he hung up he was laughing about something we were talking about. From tears => laughter. On 1/13/2018 at 10:11 AM, manitou said: It seems to help me the most to be of help to them. I think this will be a very worthwhile part of the recovery. By shining the way for others, you have apparently found some light of your own. SHINE ON! - LimA 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted January 19, 2018 On 1/7/2018 at 9:12 PM, cold said: Hope you are continuing to feel better ! Hi cold, Your continuous support for manitou has touched me. Great job brother (sister?). A great weekend. - LimA 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blue eyed snake Posted January 19, 2018 On 1/13/2018 at 3:11 AM, manitou said: Yes, I've had the first meeting. I took the initiative and got everyone's phone number (only 4 of us in the meeting), and I've been keeping in touch every other day. One man in particular was really crying hard during the first session. I called him yesterday and he cried on the phone, but when he hung up he was laughing about something we were talking about. It seems to help me the most to be of help to them. I think this will be a very worthwhile part of the recovery. Thanks, cold. good to hear that you're going upwards now. The darkest time of year has passed too, for me at least, that always plays a role too. may I make a maybe unwanted and/or painful remark? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, blue eyed snake said: The darkest time of year has passed too, for me at least, that always plays a role too. May I make a maybe unwanted and/or painful remark? Hi blue eyed snake, Everyday dawn breaks at the darkest hour. - LimA Edited January 19, 2018 by Limahong Enhance ... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted January 21, 2018 On 1/19/2018 at 9:09 AM, blue eyed snake said: good to hear that you're going upwards now. The darkest time of year has passed too, for me at least, that always plays a role too. may I make a maybe unwanted and/or painful remark? I'm at the 3 1/2 month time now, which some say is about the worst time of all. The denial has pretty much passed, the 'reality' (such as it is) has set in. I'd rather cry relentlessly rather than have that horrible, ugly emptiness inside me. That hole that defies description. Please feel free to say whatever you think will be helpful. Hopefully it won't be "just suck it up" as one person said to me. That was very hurtful. Today is actually pretty good day, and I'm going to do some art - some little colorful drawings which I give to people in the bereavement group. What a roller coaster ride this is. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cold Posted January 21, 2018 In my experience people in bereavement are often very sensitive and often super aware. I am the middle, child four siblings and somehow it became my lot in life to carry my folks to family and friends wakes and funerals. To many to count ..... But after one truly ridiculous remark my dad (who was orphaned at an early age) said people in grief are in a unique place. Its inexplicable to those whom aren't or haven't been there done that. So either take any remarks as positive or made out of ignorance and or fear. If it helps just smile at them ... manitou keep that seat belt tight and enjoy the ride as much as you can! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, manitou said: I'd rather cry relentlessly rather than have that horrible, ugly emptiness inside me. That hole that defies description. Please feel free to say whatever you think will be helpful. Hi manitou, I really don't how you feel. But if you are feeling thus, you are not alone with your feelings. 6 hours ago, manitou said: Today is actually pretty good day, and I'm going to do some art - some little colorful drawings which I give to people in the bereavement group. Apparently you are creative and talented - you are lucky. By helping others, you are opening up yourself to Barbara Anne (pardon me if I misspell your name). Send my regards to her. Have you really lost Joseph? Why do I ask? Because... Thus be honest with your emptiness - only you know who you are. So who is Barbara Anne? Start to imagine! - LimA Edited January 21, 2018 by Limahong Enhance ... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted January 21, 2018 VERY nice composite, limA. The last one is so appropriate. Nobody ever tells you that emptiness weighs the most. Amen. I sometimes get relief in knowing that thousands, maybe millions, of people around the world are in exactly the same place as I am. Most of us get a turn at this. thanks again, every single insertion was right on target. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, manitou said: Most of us get a turn at this. Hi manitou, Yes - and we get help/help others along the way. All in the name of humane love? - LimA Edited January 22, 2018 by Limahong Enhance ... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted January 22, 2018 So much Love for you Manitou. I have had almost no words to offer you in this process, all I can do is hold space for you in my heart when you come to mind, which I assure you, is often... all I have found in manners of this type of loss, is that time is a real healer. After some time, the pain loses its teeth a bit, then I could poke my head out of the grief for brief forays into intent. But really, just love. Love and acceptance and respect for the depth of your love and the reality of your connection to your dear one who has shifted. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted January 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, silent thunder said: So much Love for you Manitou. I have had almost no words to offer you in this process, all I can do is hold space for you in my heart when you come to mind, which I assure you, is often... all I have found in manners of this type of loss, is that time is a real healer. After some time, the pain loses its teeth a bit, then I could poke my head out of the grief for brief forays into intent. But really, just love. Love and acceptance and respect for the depth of your love and the reality of your connection to your dear one who has shifted. I've been listening to a lot of Tolle CD's. His constant talk of Presence is so very comforting. He speaks of going into Presence, (after being out of it and running with the mind) is like a baby slipping back into the warm arms of a loving mother. I am starting to see the truth in this, I am able to do it more and more. Last night I did some more little right brain drawings for folks in the bereavement group, and I couldn't believe how the hours slipped away, and I was nothing but Present, focusing on the art. I am learning tools, and the difference is very noticeable. Silent Thunder, you are one beautiful human being. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, manitou said: I've been listening to a lot of Tolle CD's. His constant talk of Presence is so very comforting. He speaks of going into Presence, (after being out of it and running with the mind) is like a baby slipping back into the warm arms of a loving mother. I am starting to see the truth in this, I am able to do it more and more. Last night I did some more little right brain drawings for folks in the bereavement group, and I couldn't believe how the hours slipped away, and I was nothing but Present, focusing on the art. I am learning tools, and the difference is very noticeable. Such a gift Tolle's perspective and teaching! He was a wedge for me, who widened the initial cracks in my old trance state and illusory beliefs. 1 minute ago, manitou said: Silent Thunder, you are one beautiful human being. Right back at you Sister! And just remember, you are never alone. All those with whom you foster a connection and love you are always linked and with you in a matrix of light that is unbreakable and beyond the bounds of space. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted January 22, 2018 5 hours ago, manitou said: Last night I did some more little right brain drawings for folks in the bereavement group, and I couldn't believe how the hours slipped away, and I was nothing but Present, focusing on the art. I am learning tools, and the difference is very noticeable. Hi manitou, You are creative and you write well. Is it possible that helping others is your new calling? - LimA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blue eyed snake Posted January 23, 2018 On 1/13/2018 at 3:11 AM, manitou said: Yes, I've had the first meeting. I took the initiative and got everyone's phone number (only 4 of us in the meeting), and I've been keeping in touch every other day. One man in particular was really crying hard during the first session. I called him yesterday and he cried on the phone, but when he hung up he was laughing about something we were talking about. It seems to help me the most to be of help to them. I think this will be a very worthwhile part of the recovery. Thanks, cold. when I read that, I was reminded of my own tendency to drown my own hurt under the act of helping others. So that my own hurt gets buried ( again) that was what I wanted to say, may not be true in your case of course, but it is my tendency... On 1/21/2018 at 6:07 PM, manitou said: I'm at the 3 1/2 month time now, which some say is about the worst time of all. The denial has pretty much passed, the 'reality' (such as it is) has set in. I'd rather cry relentlessly rather than have that horrible, ugly emptiness inside me. That hole that defies description. Please feel free to say whatever you think will be helpful. Hopefully it won't be "just suck it up" as one person said to me. That was very hurtful. let him/her suck it up herself!! Stupid. If anything we should stop sucking up things/ burying our hurt. Better to feel it, go through it ( as you are doing, my respect for that, I think the amount of hurt you're going through is larger than bereavement only, which in and of itself already is an enormous load. I'm remembering my mum here.) On 1/21/2018 at 6:07 PM, manitou said: Today is actually pretty good day, and I'm going to do some art - some little colorful drawings which I give to people in the bereavement group. What a roller coaster ride this is. good to hear that some light is peeping through. I didn't know you make artwork. reminds me of my beloved aunt, who made beautiful aquarel pictures. ( but also line drawings and crayonwork, but mostly aquarel) I was once in her workingroom were she had laid out enormous amounts of art, trying to decide what to do with it. One of the papers was, dark, blacks and brown and purples, not watercolour but crayons. I asked her about it, it was so unusual, not like other things she made. she told me that after the sudden death of her husband she sat there, and after much crying and feeling stuck, not able to create something, it just sort of happened. She said, this is my bereavement congealed on paper, ( this conversation was years after her husband died btw) much love for you BES 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted January 23, 2018 One truth for me about love and grief has come very clear through the loss of parents/friends. When I share my grief, it lessens a bit... and when I share my love, it grows. So I share, reach out and connect while also allowing plenty of space to withdraw and just be me, whatever that may be... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted January 24, 2018 No idea how helpful this is? Quote The [free] Grief Recovery Method Guide for Loss: 61 tips on the experience of Grief and how to help people through it. This grief ebook will give you information about loss and how we can help. This book covers: The best grief definition you will find Typical responses associated with grief How do I know if I'm incomplete with a loss? Why the 5 Stages of Grief are a myth Plus 50 other pieces of important information for you on the topic of grief 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) On 1/22/2018 at 2:19 PM, Limahong said: Hi manitou, You are creative and you write well. Is it possible that helping others is your new calling? - LimA Hi LimA - It has been a calling for a long time - thanks for the suggestion. As a member of the alcohol recovery system for the past 36 years, helping the newcomer is Step 12 of the recovery, which continues throughout one's life. No shortage of folks there who need assistance, and since Joe's death I've really kicked up the participation - mainly to be around people, as I'm a loner - but to even share in a meeting, you never know if something you said hits a person struggling with their addiction in just the right way. Plenty of seeds planted there in meetings - plus the ability to sponsor other folks who are just trying to get sober/straight. Gendao - that is a wonderful and comprehensive graph. I suspect that the stages mentioned aren't always delineated in the very same order - but I do recognize each and every one of them - I'm sure that there is more to come later. Right now, I'm just enjoying the reprieve I'm getting from the crying and constant rumination and thinking of Joe; the feeling sorry for myself, the panic, the fear of the future.....I've just got a reprieve from it, that's all. It's been about 4 days now that I feel like a human being again. Maybe some of it will return, but that graph is helpful as to the nuances of the grief process, as it is so comprehensive. Thank you so much. For anyone who will be going through this process in the future; I think that the very deep crying is so healing - and it always feels so much better after the crying has stopped. I'd rather be crying my eyes out than have a day where I walk around with that huge, ugly, empty hole inside me. Those days are the worst, but sometimes a great cry will alleviate that too. The bereavement group affirms that others feel that same deep, ugly hole - and that we are not alone. Apparently misery loves company. Edited January 25, 2018 by manitou 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cold Posted January 30, 2018 On 1/25/2018 at 10:00 AM, manitou said: Hi LimA - It has been a calling for a long time - thanks for the suggestion. As a member of the alcohol recovery system for the past 36 years, helping the newcomer is Step 12 of the recovery, which continues throughout one's life. No shortage of folks there who need assistance, and since Joe's death I've really kicked up the participation - mainly to be around people, as I'm a loner - but to even share in a meeting, you never know if something you said hits a person struggling with their addiction in just the right way. Plenty of seeds planted there in meetings - plus the ability to sponsor other folks who are just trying to get sober/straight. Gendao - that is a wonderful and comprehensive graph. I suspect that the stages mentioned aren't always delineated in the very same order - but I do recognize each and every one of them - I'm sure that there is more to come later. Right now, I'm just enjoying the reprieve I'm getting from the crying and constant rumination and thinking of Joe; the feeling sorry for myself, the panic, the fear of the future.....I've just got a reprieve from it, that's all. It's been about 4 days now that I feel like a human being again. Maybe some of it will return, but that graph is helpful as to the nuances of the grief process, as it is so comprehensive. Thank you so much. For anyone who will be going through this process in the future; I think that the very deep crying is so healing - and it always feels so much better after the crying has stopped. I'd rather be crying my eyes out than have a day where I walk around with that huge, ugly, empty hole inside me. Those days are the worst, but sometimes a great cry will alleviate that too. The bereavement group affirms that others feel that same deep, ugly hole - and that we are not alone. Apparently misery loves company. "misery loves company" and I for one am glad company for the journey that begins with loss... I have a bit of experience with crying, both in sorrow and in joy. Funny thing being the deeper the sorrow, the greater the joy to follow. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
