Spiritual Qigong that develops Chi

[Julia Cobbett]

Hello,

 

I’d like to introduce myself and get some advice.  I am 27 years old, healthy American woman, fairly new to Qigong and Taoism though not to meditation which I have been practicing for about 12 years from the Thai Theravada Buddhist school of thought. For the past few months I have been doing Qigong exercises daily using Lee Holden’s DVD’s. Having experienced some benefits (more energy, physical health and well-being) I would like to improve and deepen my practice.  I am interested in increasing my chi for vitality as well as develop my inner powers and grow spiritually. I am not interested in exoteric fighting martial arts forms.  I am mostly interested in moving Qigong/Neigong spiritual practices as am already doing Theravada Buddhist sitting meditation practices (anapanasatti & vipassana).  I would like to explore a more traditional Qigong/Neigong lineage and would like some advice as to where to begin. I live in the Austin, Texas area. Thanks.

 

p.s. I would also appreciate a good basic reading list on Taoism, 

Qigong and Neigong for a beginner that is easy to understand.

 

-Julia

 

[Marblehead]

Hello, Julia Cobbett and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Marblehead and the TDB team

 

 

Hi Julia,

 

For the Taoist readings check this site out:  https://terebess.hu/english/lexikon/l.html

 

I'm sure you will find others to speak with concerning your other interests.

 

You are welcome to jump right in ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forms to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Marblehead

[Limahong]

6 hours ago, Julia Cobbett said:

I am interested in increasing my chi for vitality as well as develop my inner powers and grow spiritually.

 

Hi Julia,

 

You have a clear and focused mind. Welcome.

 

- LimA

[Seatle185]

Hello julia, im from austin too, and was searching for something similar to you. I guess my first recomendation based on what you said would be shengzhen because it focuses alot on the spiritual side of things and theres no focus on martial art at all just healing.

 

https://shengzhen.org/

 

The other guys i have studied with here are actually all internal martial artists but place alot of emphasis on the qigong and internal development. I originally wasnt interested in the martial arts much, mainly the qigong too, but i now have a really deep appreciation for the balanced approach they take. And if you dont want to partake in sparring you really dont have to.. In case your curious ill list: 

 

http://www.taichiimmortal.com/ - he teaches outside in the park near 35th- shoel creek street. The good things with him is he is relatively cheap compared to other places, he is a tcm practitioner and has a clinic with alot of experience in case your ever in need of assistance there.. everyone in the class is really nice. Not as heavy into the martial side of it but it is there. 

 

And there are really great people who teach distance lessons as was mentioned if nothing you see resonates with you in town.. 

 

As for beginner books for qigong i guess i would recomend

- opening the energy gates by bruce frantzis

- inside zhan zhuang by mark cohen

- tao: the way of god, and chi:  discovering your life energy by waysun liao

 

Hope it helps some.

[Jeff]

Welcome

 

Maybe consider reading the Tao Te Ching as a starting point and see if it resonates (for you at your heart). If is similar in many ways to Buddhist Sutra, but with a slightly different spin and focus.

[cold]

welcome

[Aetherous]

It seems like a moving qigong that develops vitality, as well as spirituality, is wild goose qigong. The later sequences (plum blossom gong) are said to develop and open the sky eye. The books and dvds by Shane Lear seem pretty nice for starting...but from what I've found, it sounds like Michael Tse is who to go to for learning plum blossom gong.

If wanting more spiritual development than qigong can offer, you'd probably want to look into actual Daoist lineages...or in other words, religion. That can be challenging with the cultural and language barrier, but there are people initiated into traditions in China.

I like what Seatle185 said about that Tai Chi Immortal teacher...he definitely seems worth checking out! Any time the teacher is also a Chinese Medicine practitioner, it's a good idea to learn with them.

[Julia Cobbett]

All excellent suggestions. Thanks! 🙏

[Limahong]

10 hours ago, Julia Cobbett said:

All excellent suggestions.

 

Hi Julia,

 

Perhaps from these suggestions you can figure out the ABC's of your search.

Thereafter you will be on a 'Julia Cobbett' path experientially ~ first-hand?

 

- LimA

[Julia Cobbett]

Yes, you are right Limahong! 🙏 

 

A friend has suggested Pangu Shengong which looks promising. I plan on checking it out though I’m not sure if the founding teacher of this method, Ou Wen, has a prior traditional lineage or if he studied with other teachers before creating his own method which was received from a deity named Pangu.  But I am told that the results speak for themselves and it’s a very powerful exercise for chi increase and spiritual growth.  Just what I’m looking for.  The other suggestions here by experienced members also give me much food for thought and I plan to research them further.

 

-Julia

[thelerner]

I enjoy Pangu, a short form, easy to learn with good energetics. 

I learned it from Michael Winn.  Here's a video of it-

 

[Julia Cobbett]

Thanks. 👍 Yes, I’ve watched that video in the past.  I’m familiar with the movements but I’ve also been told by my friend who is a Pan Gu Shengong student that Michael Winn’s version in this video is not accurate because it is missing the following elements:

 

1. The energetic transmission given by Master Ou Wen Wei when one is formally accepted as a student.

2. The password phrases used to invoke the energy.

3. The visualization of the sun and moon spinning and combining while doing the movements.

4. Standing quietly with palms up for several minutes in the beginning to receive gong.

 

So Michael Winn just teaches the hand movements alone, and what he teaches is incomplete. I would rather get it from the source and have sent an application to be accepted as a student.

 

-Julia

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, Julia Cobbett said:

Standing quietly...

 

Hi Julia,

 

SILENCE is important in your search.

 

- LimA

[thelerner]

3 hours ago, Julia Cobbett said:

Thanks. 👍 Yes, I’ve watched that video in the past.  I’m familiar with the movements but I’ve also been told by my friend who is a Pan Gu Shengong student that Michael Winn’s version in this video is not accurate because it is missing the following elements:

 

1. The energetic transmission given by Master Ou Wen Wei when one is formally accepted as a student.

2. The password phrases used to invoke the energy.

3. The visualization of the sun and moon spinning and combining while doing the movements.

4. Standing quietly with palms up for several minutes in the beginning to receive gong.

 

So Michael Winn just teaches the hand movements alone, and what he teaches is incomplete. I would rather get it from the source and have sent an application to be accepted as a student.

 

-Julia

I've heard that.  Still, I enjoy Winn's interpretation and think I get something out of it.  Perhaps I'll have an opportunity to learn it from the Master Wei's school one day. 

[Julia Cobbett]

1 hour ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi Julia,

 

SILENCE is important in your search.

 

- LimA

 

I’m not sure what you are asserting Limahong. This is a discussion forum, is it not?

 

-Julia

[Julia Cobbett]

3 minutes ago, thelerner said:

I've heard that.  Still, I enjoy Winn's interpretation and think I get something out of it.  Perhaps I'll have an opportunity to learn it from the Master Wei's school one day. 

 

Good to hear you are getting something out of it.

 

-Julia 

[Limahong]

2 hours ago, Julia Cobbett said:

I’m not sure what you are asserting Limahong. This is a discussion forum, is it not?

 

Hi Julia,

 

TDB is sure a discussion forum.

 

What is silence to you? How do balance this dichotomy (or Taoist duality) - silence/noise? Can silence prevail in the midst of noise? When a person meditates, is there only silence? Is silence absolute? xxx? yyy? zzz?

 

'xyz' pertain to questions you ask of yourself - silently.

 

- LimA

[Jeff]

6 hours ago, Julia Cobbett said:

Thanks. 👍 Yes, I’ve watched that video in the past.  I’m familiar with the movements but I’ve also been told by my friend who is a Pan Gu Shengong student that Michael Winn’s version in this video is not accurate because it is missing the following elements:

 

1. The energetic transmission given by Master Ou Wen Wei when one is formally accepted as a student.

2. The password phrases used to invoke the energy.

3. The visualization of the sun and moon spinning and combining while doing the movements.

4. Standing quietly with palms up for several minutes in the beginning to receive gong.

 

So Michael Winn just teaches the hand movements alone, and what he teaches is incomplete. I would rather get it from the source and have sent an application to be accepted as a student.

 

-Julia

 

I am not trying to be critical, but I was wondering why you felt that these points made a significant difference between the two?  Is it that you feel that Master Wei has the power to give some formal transmission that increases the effectiveness?  Or believe that a password phrase would somehow make a difference on internal work?  Or is it more that you trust the view of your friend?

 

Thanks, Jeff

[thelerner]

From what I've heard its the feeling that the form was handed down with those instructions and other lines of the teaching it are incomplete without them.. the 'empowerments'.   Understandable.   Winn even admits he's changed the form a bit. 

 

Anyhow, there's a simplicity to Pangu that is wonderful.  Winn has a short gi gung form that has sun and moon in it.  I'm sure if it was picked up by another teacher, modified and used without the visualization he might also feel the interpretation was problematic. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by thelerner

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, thelerner said:

  Winn even admits he's changed the form a bit. 

 

 

I think Winn changes every form a bit.  Doesn`t mean they`re bad -- they`re just authentic Winn.

[Julia Cobbett]

8 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

I am not trying to be critical, but I was wondering why you felt that these points made a significant difference between the two?  Is it that you feel that Master Wei has the power to give some formal transmission that increases the effectiveness?  Or believe that a password phrase would somehow make a difference on internal work?  Or is it more that you trust the view of your friend?

 

Thanks, Jeff

 

There are several differences between Winn’s method and that of Master Wei as far as I have been told by other Pangu Shengong practitioners. Pangu Shengong was transmitted/channeled to Master Wei according to his own account by Pangu himself who transmits Yuan Qi to formal students.  Without transmission you are working at a significant disadvantage. It would be like someone trying to do Reiki healing without a traditional Reiki initiation.  Yes I believe my friend and others I have spoken to.  

 

The password phrases help to activate the energy. So yes, they are necessary. Otherwise he would not teach them. So are the sun/moon visualizations that are taught with the method, but which Winn omits entirely and infact says are not necessary, which totally contradicts the founder’s own teachings.

 

As an example in Tibetan Buddhism there are the “empowerments” (in Pangu Shengong the Yuan Qi transmission) to do a Tantric practice, along with a Mantra (in Pangu Shengong the “password phrases”) to invoke/attune to a deity, along with visualizations (in both traditions) to receive the purifying Light of the deity, and hand mudras, hand movements or body positions to create a pathway for the chi and anchor the energy in the practitioner.  To do only the hand mudras/movements for a Buddhist Tantric deity and claim that you are practicing a Buddhist Tantric sadhana of a deity would be a half-truth in that your practice is missing many other necessary elements.

 

If someone is getting something of value from Winn’s method, then good for them. But it would be intellectually dishonest to call Winn’s method “Pangu Shengong” because it is missing several important pieces.  And I do think they would be getting much more if they followed the complete package.

 

-Julia

[Jeff]

10 hours ago, Julia Cobbett said:

 

There are several differences between Winn’s method and that of Master Wei as far as I have been told by other Pangu Shengong practitioners. Pangu Shengong was transmitted/channeled to Master Wei according to his own account by Pangu himself who transmits Yuan Qi to formal students.  Without transmission you are working at a significant disadvantage. It would be like someone trying to do Reiki healing without a traditional Reiki initiation.  Yes I believe my friend and others I have spoken to.  

 

The password phrases help to activate the energy. So yes, they are necessary. Otherwise he would not teach them. So are the sun/moon visualizations that are taught with the method, but which Winn omits entirely and infact says are not necessary, which totally contradicts the founder’s own teachings.

 

Thank you for sharing. It sounds like you have both a friend and teacher that you trust. I am not familiar with (or trying to defend) Winn, more just questioning the concept of things like passwords that give access to something or some being.

 

in my experience, divine beings look for an open heart, not a password to give access.

 

10 hours ago, Julia Cobbett said:

As an example in Tibetan Buddhism there are the “empowerments” (in Pangu Shengong the Yuan Qi transmission) to do a Tantric practice, along with a Mantra (in Pangu Shengong the “password phrases”) to invoke/attune to a deity, along with visualizations (in both traditions) to receive the purifying Light of the deity, and hand mudras, hand movements or body positions to create a pathway for the chi and anchor the energy in the practitioner.  To do only the hand mudras/movements for a Buddhist Tantric deity and claim that you are practicing a Buddhist Tantric sadhana of a deity would be a half-truth in that your practice is missing many other necessary elements.

 

If someone is getting something of value from Winn’s method, then good for them. But it would be intellectually dishonest to call Winn’s method “Pangu Shengong” because it is missing several important pieces.  And I do think they would be getting much more if they followed the complete package.

 

-Julia

 

[Julia Cobbett]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

 

Thank you for sharing. It sounds like you have both a friend and teacher that you trust. I am not familiar with (or trying to defend) Winn, more just questioning the concept of things like passwords that give access to something or some being.

 

in my experience, divine beings look for an open heart, not a password to give access.

 

 

 

I agree that an open heart is very helpful to attune to a deity but if that were the only element that is important then we wouldn’t have the tradition of mantra yoga in all the major traditions of spirituality and religion including Buddhism, Hinduism (Santana Dharma), Orthodox and Roman Catholic Christianity, Islam, Judaism and even in several sects of religious and spiritual Taoism. These mantras (or “password phrases”) have been designed and transmitted by the deity to open up a pathway of communication and reception of said deity’s energies.  They serve like a telephone number to the deity. A mantra is nothing more than the essence of a deity translated into words. In Hindu Tantra it is rightfully stated that the deity and its mantra are one.

 

-Julia

[Julia Cobbett]

23 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

Welcome Julia. Happy to have you here. Seattle185 is a great person to talk to and a friend of mine, so I can vouch for him and say you are lucky to have a Taoist brother nearby with a good reference to resources. 

 

My favorite discovery in this forum has been Flying Phoenix Qigong, which I highly recommend you check out. 

 

As for books, it really depends, but you have some good resources mentioned by everyone here already. 

 

Thank you Earl.  Flying Phoenix Qigong sounds wonderful. Can you tell me a bit about the background of the founder of this tradition? Also, can one learn it through DVD’s and where can I purchase them? What have you personally received from utilizing this method?

 

-Julia

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, Julia Cobbett said:

 

I agree that an open heart is very helpful to attune to a deity but if that were the only element that is important then we wouldn’t have the tradition of mantra yoga in all the major traditions of spirituality and religion including Buddhism, Hinduism (Santana Dharma), Orthodox and Roman Catholic Christianity, Islam, Judaism and even in several sects of religious and spiritual Taoism. These mantras (or “password phrases”) have been designed and transmitted by the deity to open up a pathway of communication and reception of said deity’s energies.  They serve like a telephone number to the deity. A mantra is nothing more than the essence of a deity translated into words. In Hindu Tantra it is rightfully stated that the deity and its mantra are one.

 

-Julia

 

A mantra or password is a concept or mapping in local mind. A true deity is not something that can be translated into words. This is why they say the Dao that can be named is not the Dao. Additionally, in most of the traditions you described (Christianity, Islam, etc...) they specifically say that one cannot name God. 

 

For a deity and mantra to be one, that deity would have to be a (local) mind conception. One can call spirit beings with a “phone number”, but must surrender (or open) to a deity, and the deity may come (or not).