What to do about compassion?

[C T]

 

[Lost in Translation]

1 hour ago, C T said:

Compassion is a universal principle, evident in the most fundamental to the most profound change. 

Its impersonal, and it permeates to levels far above & beyond considerations limited to the alleviation of human sufferings. 

 

I don't understand. Please explain.

[Stosh]

4 hours ago, ljazztrumpet said:

Yeah man, absolutely. If I have more ease/clarity/wisdom/love within myself, I am better able to help someone else. To get to the place with everyone (not just loved ones) where I have the same level of concern for them as myself is something I really desire.

 

 I think it's definitely good to be skeptical of the 'mysterious stuff', especially in this day and age. If you are really curious, just ask Life/The Universe/Etc. to put you into contact with someone who has had those types of experiences. Hey, it's worth a shot and you might be surprised!

I would indeed be surprised , the only thing I have ever seen as mysterious , are what get called ' Big Coincidences ' , I see those all the time. 

[Lost in Translation]

49 minutes ago, C T said:

Impersonal as in 'non-discriminatory', or dispassionateness. 

 

Or, maybe to help one understand what to do with compassion and its impersonal process, simply consider, not just the outer displays, but the very nature of how compassion unfolds without the least bias present.  

 

I am confused. How is compassion dispassionate? Are you saying that sentient beings should remain dispassionate while exercising compassion? If this is the case then I agree. If I misunderstand you then please explain.

[ljazztrumpet]

1 hour ago, C T said:

Compassion is a universal principle, evident in the most fundamental to the most profound change. 

Its impersonal, and it permeates to levels far above & beyond considerations limited to the alleviation of human sufferings. 

Yeah I like this CT. Any specific teachings/books you recommend that talk about this type of things? One of the areas I really like to study. 

[rene]

16 hours ago, ljazztrumpet said:

I have had some mystical-type experiences in deep meditation where I really saw everything was perfect just the way it is and nothing needs to be changed (including actions to create change). But, then my thinking mind came in and I went about my day and said, 'Hey, that's crazy! Things need to change and suffering needs to end!'.. But it was good for me to have those mystical experiences because it was yet another way of showing me that there are things 'greater/wiser' than my thinking mind. 

 

Now that I am writing this out, I see a great outlook to have would be to realize that everything really is perfect the way it is, nothing needs to be changed, AND all my actions to try to heal and help myself and others needn't be changed either. It would probably be the most effective for me to develop this outlook all the time, as I wouldn't have any type of undercurrent of frustration/anger about suffering going on in the world. I could act from a higher place of love and understanding which would probably bring greater clarity to my actions and apparent decisions. I wouldn't be surprised if Life forced me into this outlook sooner or later!

(All formatting emphasis mine)

 

Bravo, Lex! Yes!

 

This is the one of the manifestations of  'Both, same time' - that long time members here have heard me blather about for years, lol. This is how simultaneously standing in two worlds reveals itself. Cheers to Life if that is what 'forced' (LOLOL) you into this blended perspective. Well met!

 

Warm greetings (-:

Rene

 

[Lost in Translation]

17 hours ago, ljazztrumpet said:

I see a great outlook to have would be to realize that everything really is perfect the way it is, nothing needs to be changed, and all my actions to try to heal and help myself and others needn't be changed either.

 

8 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

Very nice. This needs to be said over, and over and over again.

 

36 minutes ago, rene said:

 

17 hours ago, ljazztrumpet said:

... I see a great outlook to have would be to realize that everything really is perfect the way it is, nothing needs to be changed, AND all my actions to try to heal and help myself and others needn't be changed either. ...

(All formatting emphasis mine)

 

Bravo, Lex! Yes!

 

This is the one of the manifestations of  'Both, same time' - that long time members here have heard me blather about for years, lol. This is how simultaneously standing in two worlds reveals itself. Cheers to Life if that is what 'forced' (LOLOL) you into this blended perspective. Well met!

 

Warm greetings (-:

Rene

 

We're on a roll now!

 

 

 

 

[rene]

5 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

We're on a roll now!

Thanks, Lost! I got so excited when I read his post I forgot to read the rest of the thread after replying, lolol.

And yes, said over and over and over again... but it wont be heard by anyone, though, until their ears are ready.

Too bad, that. Or not.

[ljazztrumpet]

5 hours ago, rene said:

(All formatting emphasis mine)

 

Bravo, Lex! Yes!

 

This is the one of the manifestations of  'Both, same time' - that long time members here have heard me blather about for years, lol. This is how simultaneously standing in two worlds reveals itself. Cheers to Life if that is what 'forced' (LOLOL) you into this blended perspective. Well met!

 

Warm greetings (-:

Rene

 

Thanks Rene, your confirmation of the idea that came to me is encouraging. Especially since I dig a lot of the posts I've read that you've written. Appreciate the confirmation!

[Lost in Translation]

5 hours ago, rene said:

This is the one of the manifestations of  'Both, same time' - that long time members here have heard me blather about for years, lol.

 

I was listening to an interview with Tim Freke on batgap. He repeatedly said "both, same time". Did you get this from him or does he owe you recognition? ;-)

Edited November 18, 2017 by Lost in Translation

[3bob]

also not before or after some point yet there is a point of before and after for the evolution of matrix... 

[rene]

7 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

I was listening to an interview with Tim Freke on batgap. He repeatedly said "both, same time". Did you get this from him or does he owe you recognition? ;-)

 

I had to google who Tim Freke is; seems like an interesting fella! Always nice to learn of others who enjoy this particular piece of candy...mine seems to be of the home-made variety...dunno where Freke got his. I'm always happy to share some...even though it's already in everyone's pocket.

[TheCLounge]

On 11/15/2017 at 0:22 AM, Lost in Translation said:

We all know people who are suffering. Many of us may also be suffering.

 

We cultivate compassion towards others, and towards ourselves. This is good. This is excellent. But what does that actually mean? For example, you know people who are suffering. You feel compassion towards them. What's next? Do you reach out to help? If so, how can you help without enabling? How do you know that your actions are truly compassionate? It may be that the best compassion is to do nothing.

 

Ideas?

I think religion has created this idea that one is "obligated" to help others. And if we don't we suffer damnation

 

This is wrong. You are not obligated to help others. If there is obligation then that means it is disingenuous. Anything that requires you to "try" to do something good is disingenuous and only reinforces the ego..

 

The solution is simple...Help when you want to help. And if you don't want to help then simply don't do it. It takes a level of self awareness and honesty to know when you truly want to do something or not.

 

Our egos are very tricky when it comes to decisions. You may think you're doing it because it's good, but chances are you're doing it because you're expecting a reward or because you hope to escape some kind of "bad karma" BS..

 

All of it is wrong. Help only when you truly seek to help. And the best way to help, is to simply...BE

 

If you have to think about doing it, chances are you aren't really doing it. It's your ego. Compassion and forgiveness can only be expressed when you are fully accepting of yourself and the situations that surround you. 

 

If you feel guilty by not giving that homeless man your pocket change then chances are you would have been lying to yourself if you actually did. Which means, there was no compassion. It was simply a lie..

Edited November 18, 2017 by TheCLounge

[oak]

34 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

 

 

If you feel guilty by not giving that homeless man your pocket change then chances are you would have been lying to yourself if you actually did. Which means, there was no compassion. It was simply a lie..

 

For me the lie is when you see yourself in that homeless man and deny and supress your true feelings, turning him into an object, giving him some "change".

Edited November 18, 2017 by oak
objet-object

[ljazztrumpet]

31 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

I think religion has created this idea that one is "obligated" to help others. And if we don't we suffer damnation

 

This is wrong. You are not obligated to help others. If there is obligation then that means it is disingenuous. Anything that requires you to "try" to do something good is disingenuous and only reinforces the ego..

 

The solution is simple...Help when you want to help. And if you don't want to help then simply don't do it. It takes a level of self awareness and honesty to know when you truly want to do something or not.

 

Our egos are very tricky when it comes to decisions. You may think you're doing it because it's good, but chances are you're doing it because you're expecting a reward or because you hope to escape some kind of "bad karma" BS..

 

All of it is wrong. Help only when you truly seek to help. And the best way to help, is to simply...BE

 

If you have to think about doing it, chances are you aren't really doing it. It's your ego. Compassion and forgiveness can only be expressed when you are fully accepting of yourself and the situations that surround you. 

 

If you feel guilty by not giving that homeless man your pocket change then chances are you would have been lying to yourself if you actually did. Which means, there was no compassion. It was simply a lie..

Very good stuff Clounge, the only thing I would say is that there are teachings that will present helping others as a way to gain benefit for yourself. But I believe what happens is that, even if you undertake service only for personal gain, you will evolve to the point where you are doing service, at least the types of service that resonate with you, because it brings you true peace and happiness. I don't think a person would be able to sustain true service for others for too long if they were only doing it for what they thought they could 'get'. Kind of like being in a new romantic relationship - You may be able to fool the person for awhile pretending to be something you're not but, eventually, your true personality comes through!

 

Just ask my 3rd to 4th last girlfriend

Edited November 18, 2017 by ljazztrumpet
Wanted to add a joke..well, it's kind of true, but funny!

[ljazztrumpet]

2 minutes ago, oak said:

 

For me the lie is when you see yourself in that homeless man and deny and supress your true feelings, turning him into an object, giving him some "change".

I think for many of us on a path like this it simply takes being consciousness for a few more moments when interacting with a homeless person and, then, you can't not help see yourself in the other person and act accordingly. I speak from personal experience as I live in Queens, NY and work, and walk around, NYC quite often...It also depends on my own state of mind.

 

If I am in a more peaceful state of mind and sm focusing on my love consciousness practice, this is way easier to do than if I am 'riled up' and/or in a rush to get somewhere. In those cases, I probably won't even 'see' the homeless person. 

[TheCLounge]

lol I'm from and live in Brooklyn and homeless people are everywhere 

 

Best con men in the world. A lot of those guys are doing a lot better than you think! 

[ljazztrumpet]

3 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

lol I'm from and live in Brooklyn and homeless people are everywhere 

 

Best con men in the world. A lot of those guys are doing a lot better than you think! 

Yeah sure, a lot of them are! But, if they are engaging in this type of behavior (conning people), they still need help - although, in this case, giving money might be enabling. The only thing I can go with is trusting my intuition in each specific case. 

[cold]

3 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

lol I'm from and live in Brooklyn and homeless people are everywhere 

 

Best con men in the world. A lot of those guys are doing a lot better than you think! 

 

1 minute ago, ljazztrumpet said:

Yeah sure, a lot of them are! But, if they are engaging in this type of behavior (conning people), they still need help - although, in this case, giving money might be enabling. The only thing I can go with is trusting my intuition in each specific case. 

 

I generally pay pretty good $15.00 an hour ($120.00 a day) its hard work out in the weather yet pan handlers may get twice that and don't have to do much...

I will offer work or share a meal, too often I see them buying booze when they get cash.

[TheCLounge]

5 minutes ago, cold said:

 

 

I generally pay pretty good $15.00 an hour ($120.00 a day) its hard work out in the weather yet pan handlers may get twice that and don't have to do much...

I will offer work or share a meal, too often I see them buying booze when they get cash.

Agreed. I usually offer them food instead of cash.

 

My basic point is that life is simple yet because of our egos we are faced with inner conflict on what we consider "right and wrong". Because of some kind of social and/or religious conditioning we faced..

 

The only way to truly be compassionate is to be in the moment where you are able to BE that..

 

imo

Edited November 18, 2017 by TheCLounge

[oak]

15 minutes ago, ljazztrumpet said:

Yeah sure, a lot of them are! But, if they are engaging in this type of behavior (conning people), they still need help - although, in this case, giving money might be enabling. The only thing I can go with is trusting my intuition in each specific case. 

yes, giving a shit instead of giving some change. It's commpn behaviour how some people immediately look for an excuse to not give a shit.

[ljazztrumpet]

Yes, that's certainly true.. but I think if a person needs booze/drugs that badly, they may be desperate to self-medicate to alleviate the pain of past trauma/PTSD/physical+emotional pain/etc. So, again, for me, I just have to go with my intuition in each specific situation. The best thing I feel I can do is elevate my own consciousness and develop more wisdom and intuition as I feel that is what will make me a more helpful person in the world in general.

[ljazztrumpet]

1 minute ago, oak said:

yes, giving a shit instead of giving some change. It's commpn behaviour how some people immediately look for an excuse to not give a shit.

But it gets harder and harder to not give a shit as you elevate your consciousness!;-)

[TheCLounge]

When you truly wish to help someone you would also realize when you are not in the position to do so..

 

Either because of inner conflict or just not being able to have the right mindset to extend yourself..

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by TheCLounge

[oak]

26 minutes ago, cold said:

 

 

I generally pay pretty good $15.00 an hour ($120.00 a day) its hard work out in the weather yet pan handlers may get twice that and don't have to do much...

I will offer work or share a meal, too often I see them buying booze when they get cash.

 

Congratulations cold! As you know many people do exactly the opposite: capitalize over addiction taking advantage of ill people. Also, you're helping them in doing a more conscious choice with what they do with their money.