What to do about compassion?

[cold]

14 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

I never said you're obligated to do anything 

 

No you would be to smart to do that.

Compassion arises out of ones being.

 The only obligation one has is to being true to their nature.

 

It remains inexplicable that one is both aware of the ton of bricks, and not flustered in any way by them.

It simply is what it is.

Its due to ones nature or not.

 

Six blind men exploring an dragon thru sense touch no matter how refined their are not having nearly the same journey as the one riding the dragon.

 

2 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

This is big. You guys are onto something here.

 

When I read the above, this is my take away:

 

Desire = Choice. One must choose to be aware of one's own condition (living, sentient, suffering being) and one must also choose to extend that awareness to others (also living, also sentient, also suffering beings) before one can consciously choose and embody compassion.

 

 

 

Imho choice doesn't come into play.

I can choose to sit in the dark or flip on a switch for a lamp.

I cannot choose to embody compassion.

Its either inborne or not. I can't cultivate

 

3 minutes ago, C T said:

it is easier to remove the veils and fetters that hide one's compassionate heart than to act in the limited human understanding of what compassion is. Compassion is like the sun - the sun naturally emits warmth and light, it doesnt have to force itself to do so, nor does the question of whether the sun shines selectively or not even arise. It simply rests in its own nature, effortlessly. What is the nature of a true human being? 

 

The veils or fetters that hide one's compassionate heart fall to the wayside naturally to one with skin in the game or innate compassion. No thought no struggle just one acting in their innate true nature.

 

The sun rises on the good and the evil equally. (This realization is the beginning of awareness.)

 

The true nature of human beings includes those with great innate compassion (skin in the game, and those (without skin in the game) without a compassionate nature. That's how it is.

 

The fellow who bear hugged the bomber didn't think.

He  didn't have a choice ...

He had an innate nature of compassion

[ljazztrumpet]

1 minute ago, TheCLounge said:

 

Acknowledge your true essence and that same essence will take care of everything for you. You will experience everything you need to experience.

 

Reminds me of something I was saying in the 'God thread' about surrender.. I think it's something a person needs to practice to be able to do it in more and more situations.

2 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

The fact that you acknowledge the ills of the world around you proves that you have seen compassion..

Yeah, that's usually a step in the right direction

[TheCLounge]

5 minutes ago, cold said:

 

No you would be to smart to do that.

Compassion arises out of ones being.

 The only obligation one has is to being true to their nature.

 

It remains inexplicable that one is both aware of the ton of bricks, and not flustered in any way by them.

It simply is what it is.

Its due to ones nature or not.

 

Six blind men exploring an dragon thru sense touch no matter how refined their are not having nearly the same journey as the one riding the dragon.

 

 

Imho choice doesn't come into play.

I can choose to sit in the dark or flip on a switch for a lamp.

I cannot choose to embody compassion.

Its either inborne or not. I can't cultivate

 

 

The veils or fetters that hide one's compassionate heart fall to the wayside naturally to one with skin in the game or innate compassion. No thought no struggle just one acting in their innate true nature.

 

The sun rises on the good and the evil equally. (This realization is the beginning of awareness.)

 

The true nature of human beings includes those with great innate compassion (skin in the game, and those (without skin in the game) without a compassionate nature. That's how it is.

 

The fellow who bear hugged the bomber didn't think.

He  didn't have a choice ...

He had an innate nature of compassion

We're pretty much saying the same thing 

Edited November 19, 2017 by TheCLounge

[ljazztrumpet]

1 minute ago, cold said:

 

The sun rises on the good and the evil equally. (This realization is the beginning of awareness.)

 

A great healer worked very hard to teach me that every single being is doing the best they can with what they know at the time. That, were I in the other person's place I would do exactly what they did.

 

Even though every second it usually feels like I'm choosing, if I sit and meditate about it, I see I really don't have any choice...I'm am just a product of my conditioning and past experiences. But some people I discuss this idea with have said you can reach a point where you 'break out' of this 'mold'.. I guess when your conditioning and past experiences absolutely don't effect you any more..if that's even possible.

[Lost in Translation]

12 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

The more you "try" to be good, the more you are making it known that you aren't good..

 

To be compassionate is to simply EXPERIENCE compassion..

 

You are nothing..you are essence. Nothing can define you

 

Acknowledge your true essence and that same essence will take care of everything for you. You will experience everything you need to experience.

 

Look at nature around you. A tree doesn't try to be a tree..it simply IS..

 

The more you "try"..the more you will fail

 

The fact that you acknowledge the ills of the world around you proves that you have seen compassion..

 

Thank you, but this is quite abstract.

 

To put this in concrete terms, let's say you have a family member who has serious problems, is losing their home and will soon be homeless. What do you do? Do you give them money to pay the mortgage, knowing you may go broke yourself? Do you take them into your own home, and in doing so possibly damage your own marriage? Do you do nothing and let them learn their lesson the hard way, and in the process allow the family to be splintered?

 

These are choices I have had to make. I chose the latter. He lost his home and died two years later from sorrow. Compassion is not abstract. It is these kinds of choices that I refer to when I use the word compassion.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Lost in Translation
spelling

[TheCLounge]

1 minute ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

Thank you, but this is quite abstract.

 

To put this is concrete terms, let's say you have a family member who has serious problems, is losing their home and will soon be homeless. What do you do? Do you give them money to pay the mortgage, knowing you may go broke yourself? Do you take them into your own home, and in doing so possibly damage your own marriage? Do you do nothing and let them learn their lesson the hard way, and in the process allow the family to be splintered?

 

These are choices I had had to make. I chose the latter. He lost his home and died two years later from sorrow. Compassion is not abstract. It is these kinds of choices that I refer to when I use the word compassion.

Do what you can. And acknowledge what you can't..

 

awareness and acknowledgement are things that begin internally. If it comes to you that you should help them do it..

 

What I'm saying is that there are those who feel OBLIGATED to do things for others to the point that they become blind. They are doing out of ego and not awareness..

[Lost in Translation]

2 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

What I'm saying is that there are those who feel OBLIGATED to do things for others to the point that they become blind. They are doing out of ego and not awareness..

 

Agreed. When obligation enters, choice exits. I do believe that it is all about choice.

[ljazztrumpet]

5 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

What I'm saying is that there are those who feel OBLIGATED to do things for others to the point that they become blind. They are doing out of ego and not awareness..

They could be doing it because of subconscious conditioning that says they SHOULD do what they feel is helpful in their own minds. Or could come from being indoctrinated in religious teachings. But, in the right circumstances, the initial motivation may not matter so much if the help given is from a wise place over time..Then that might transform the person so they are helping because it brings them joy, and they feel all the positive results they gain in their lives from doing so. That being said, I don't believe in motivating people out of fear.. but I'm just looking for positive aspects that may occur in less than positive situations.

Edited November 19, 2017 by ljazztrumpet
spaling, punctuation

[TheCLounge]

1 minute ago, ljazztrumpet said:

They could be doing it because of subconscious conditioning that says they SHOULD do what they feel is helpful in their own minds. Or could come from being indoctrinated in religious teachings. But, in the right circumstances, the initial motivation may not matter so much if the help given is from a wise place over time..Then that might transform the person so they are helping because it bring them joy and the feel all the positive results they gain in their lives from doing so. That being said, I don't believe in motivating people out of fear.. but am just looking for positive aspects that may occur in less than positive situations.

Many people who tell others to do good do it as a threat that they will "burn in hell" if they don't 

[ljazztrumpet]

2 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

Many people who tell others to do good do it as a threat that they will "burn in hell" if they don't 

Exactly, exists in a good amount of religious teaching..Use of fear to inspire 'better' behavior..and, in many cases, leads to all kinds of really crazy, strange distortions.

[cold]

6 minutes ago, ljazztrumpet said:

A great healer worked very hard to teach me that every single being is doing the best they can with what they know at the time. That, were I in the other person's place I would do exactly what they did.

 

Even though every second it usually feels like I'm choosing, if I sit and meditate about it, I see I really don't have any choice...I'm am just a product of my conditioning and past experiences. But some people I discuss this idea with have said you can reach a point where you 'break out' of this 'mold'.. I guess when your conditioning and past experiences absolutely don't effect you any more..if that's even possible.

 

Excuse me but I think if I was a carpenter and you were a lady we might have very different reactions / ideas to the same stimuli.

And if we were both ladies and carpenters we would never be in the same place ... because we are unique individuals products of our nature and how we were nurtured. Reread Taomeow's remarks on empathy in this thread they are spot on!

 

9 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

Thank you, but this is quite abstract.

 

To put this in concrete terms, let's say you have a family member who has serious problems, is losing their home and will soon be homeless. What do you do? Do you give them money to pay the mortgage, knowing you may go broke yourself? Do you take them into your own home, and in doing so possibly damage your own marriage? Do you do nothing and let them learn their lesson the hard way, and in the process allow the family to be splintered?

 

These are choices I have had to make. I chose the latter. He lost his home and died two years later from sorrow. Compassion is not abstract. It is these kinds of choices that I refer to when I use the word compassion.

 

Your example above is an example of empathy you had a choices.

You made a choice based upon best available information ...

Live with it. Don't fall on your sword over it.

 

1 minute ago, ljazztrumpet said:

Exactly, exists in a good amount of religious teaching..Use of fear to inspire 'better' behavior..and, in many cases, leads to all kinds of really crazy, strange distortions.

 

What's love have to do with it? With compassion?

Nothing!

Nor does fear! Not true compassion.

 

Empathy may be modeled...

[Lost in Translation]

5 minutes ago, cold said:

Your example above is an example of empathy you had a choices.

 

Are you saying that compassion does not involve choice? As an emotion I can accept that, but as an action I can not. One must always choose how to act of out compassion, even if one chooses not to act at all.

[C T]

some will say compassion is a type of action resulting from a feeling of deep empathy. 

this is ok - after all, its difficult to relate to concepts that one is not familiar with,

but i think compassion extends far beyond the limits of human understanding. 

To me, it is the very nature of existence itself.

Look around... its starkly evident - even weeds and grass have its nature. 

 

The assumption that one can 'do' compassion is quite a bold one, almost arrogant even;

In actuality, i think its the other way round. 

Compassion that arises without motive, without self-concern, is instinctual.

Just like a snail that withdraws into its shell when agitated, or you pulling a runaway child who stumbles onto a busy street. 

Its a reflex, but humans have a tendency to train themselves out of that reflexiveness. 

Some call this 'ignorance'. 

On some fundamental level, spiritual cultivation is a kind of process of getting familiar with it again. 

To reconnect with one's heart. Cliched, but hey, thats what it comes down to. 

[ljazztrumpet]

5 minutes ago, cold said:

 

Excuse me but I think if I was a carpenter and you were a lady we might have very different reactions / ideas to the same stimuli.

And if we were both ladies and carpenters we would never be in the same place ... because we are unique individuals products of our nature and how we were nurtured. Reread Taomeow's remarks on empathy in this thread they are spot on!

 

Yes, I can't disagree with that - but I feel we can gain empathy to other peoples' outlooks. Taomeow has some deep things to say about compassion and empathy. In situations like this, I tend to look at things more from a soul's development throughout a number of lifetimes.. So, while a sociopath may never have compassion or empathy in this life, at some point in that soul's timeline, compassion and empathy will develop. Again, these insights are from my own personal mystical experiences so they might not jibe exactly with others' views.. but there is a whole 'school of belief' that thinks of things like this in this way. 

[ljazztrumpet]

11 minutes ago, cold said:

 

What's love have to do with it? With compassion?

Nothing!

Nor does fear! Not true compassion.

 

Empathy may be modeled...

I don't know..it's beyond my current scope of understanding. To me, at this point in my understanding, things like love and compassion are related and fear, to me, is the opposite of love. 

[ljazztrumpet]

2 minutes ago, C T said:

some will say compassion is a type of action resulting from a feeling of deep empathy. 

this is ok - after all, its difficult to relate to concepts that one is not familiar with,

but i think compassion extends far beyond the limits of human understanding. 

To me, it is the very nature of existence itself.

Look around... its starkly evident - even weeds and grass have its nature. 

 

The assumption that one can 'do' compassion is quite a bold one, almost arrogant even;

In actuality, i think its the other way round. 

Compassion that arises without motive, without self-concern, is instinctual.

Just like a snail that withdraws into its shell when agitated, or you pulling a runaway child who stumbles onto a busy street. 

Its a reflex, but humans have a tendency to train themselves out of that reflexiveness. 

Some call this 'ignorance'. 

On some fundamental level, spiritual cultivation is a kind of process of getting familiar with it again. 

To reconnect with one's heart. Cliched, but hey, thats what it comes down to. 

Yeah, in this thread, this post really resonates with me. Thanks for sharing that

[Lost in Translation]

4 minutes ago, C T said:

some will say compassion is a type of action resulting from a feeling of deep empathy. 

this is ok - after all, its difficult to relate to concepts that one is not familiar with,

but i think compassion extends far beyond the limits of human understanding. 

To me, it is the very nature of existence itself.

Look around... its starkly evident - even weeds and grass have its nature. 

 

This is moving to a meta level I had not expected. Thank you for bringing us here. I do admit this is foreign ground.

 

[Fa Xin]

1 hour ago, cold said:

 

Care to share examples of compassion you have experience with?

Tia

Hi Tia,

 

sorry im not sure what you mean by examples of compassion?

 

thanks

FX

[C T]

8 minutes ago, ljazztrumpet said:

Yes, I can't disagree with that - but I feel we can gain empathy to other peoples' outlooks. Taomeow has some deep things to say about compassion and empathy. In situations like this, I tend to look at things more from a soul's development throughout a number of lifetimes.. So, while a sociopath may never have compassion or empathy in this life, at some point in that soul's timeline, compassion and empathy will develop. Again, these insights are from my own personal mystical experiences so they might not jibe exactly with others' views.. but there is a whole 'school of belief' that thinks of things like this in this way. 

Except for the little doubt about the soul, i am in agreement with the above. 

A few pages back I mentioned something about how compassion is weaved into the process of beings' evolution. 

Similar view. 

[oak]

56 minutes ago, cold said:

Its either inborne or not. I can't cultivate

 

Don't know if I can agree with you in this point. People may have overwhelming experiences that change them at their core, mystical or not. More than 20 years ago I had my life saved at great risk by someone else. Don't realy think I'm the same person since then.

 

 

[ljazztrumpet]

4 minutes ago, C T said:

Except for the little doubt about the soul, i am in agreement with the above. 

A few pages back I mentioned something about how compassion is weaved into the process of beings' evolution. 

Similar view. 

Yes, I was reading that..as LIT said, it feels you are coming from a 'meta level' when you are speaking of compassion and I hope to gain more insight into that.

 

The soul thing is from previous NDE's I've had and those I've studied and talked with people about... It's just a way I think of my being (referring to the 'little me' I still identify with primarily)..I just use the term 'soul' out of convienence.

[oak]

41 minutes ago, cold said:

To put this in concrete terms, let's say you have a family member who has serious problems, is losing their home and will soon be homeless. What do you do? Do you give them money to pay the mortgage, knowing you may go broke yourself? Do you take them into your own home, and in doing so possibly damage your own marriage? Do you do nothing and let them learn their lesson the hard way, and in the process allow the family to be splintered?

 

These are choices I have had to make. I chose the latter. He lost his home and died two years later from sorrow. Compassion is not abstract. It is these kinds of choices that I refer to when I use the word compassion.

 

Thanks for sharing this with us... 

man and this thread... no words to thank you for starting it and to thank all the participants.

[ljazztrumpet]

2 minutes ago, oak said:

 

Don't know if I can agree with you in this point. People may have overwhelming experiences that change them at their core, mystical or not. More than 20 years ago I had my life saved at great risk by someone else. Don't realy think I'm the same person since then.

 

 

The way I think of it is that cultivation will happen whether you want it to or not. For some, it might happen in the same lifetime and they recognize it strongly.. For others, like the sociopath example I was referring to, it might not happen in the same lifetime..So one could say in that particular person's lifetime, it's not inborn. But I think it's inborn in all of our existences - speaking beyond the present human lives we are identifying with now... And I use past and present lives just because my thinking mind likes linearity.. Some people start to talk about all lives happening simultaneously and all that type of thing.. But I just give my thinking mind what I feel will just help me get practical results in this life!

[C T]

1 minute ago, oak said:

 

Don't know if I can agree with you in this point. People may have overwhelming experiences that change them at their core, mystical or not. More than 20 years ago I had my life saved at great risk by someone else. Don't realy think I'm the same person since then.

 

 

Maybe you saved that person's life too? Selfless acts are 99.9% synergistic. No one really understands how resulting transformations can impact a being in such profound ways. 

[ljazztrumpet]

Just now, oak said:

 

Thanks for sharing this with us... 

man and this thread... no words to thank you for starting it and to thank all the participants.

Yes, well said oak.. This is where I feel it really matters.. All of this stuff that we are discussing.. How does it effect our practical lives? How can we use it for benefit?