What to do about compassion?

[Lost in Translation]

We all know people who are suffering. Many of us may also be suffering.

 

We cultivate compassion towards others, and towards ourselves. This is good. This is excellent. But what does that actually mean? For example, you know people who are suffering. You feel compassion towards them. What's next? Do you reach out to help? If so, how can you help without enabling? How do you know that your actions are truly compassionate? It may be that the best compassion is to do nothing.

 

Ideas?

[Marblehead]

Yes, what to do about compassion?

 

What is compassion?  

 

And what is required in order to be considered compassionate?

 

Sometimes just listening to another is enough compassion.  Othertimes one might need a helping hand.

 

It has been my long-standing understanding that true compassion has no expectations of any return of the effort.  That is, we place no expectation of any result from our doing something for another.

 

I often link the concept of compassion with that of charity.  But neither are universal.  We all have our own set of values that guide us.

 

 

[cold]

44 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Yes, what to do about compassion?

 

What is compassion?  

 

And what is required in order to be considered compassionate?

 

Sometimes just listening to another is enough compassion.  Othertimes one might need a helping hand.

 

It has been my long-standing understanding that true compassion has no expectations of any return of the effort.  That is, we place no expectation of any result from our doing something for another.

 

I often link the concept of compassion with that of charity.  But neither are universal.  We all have our own set of values that guide us.

 

 

bold by me

 

Listening is a skill in short supply in the world today.

One would hope people familiar with meditation stopping the internal chatter would also master the art of listening.

All it costs is time and effort to really listen. And laying your agenda ego aside.

[Lost in Translation]

1 hour ago, cold said:

Listening is a skill in short supply in the world today.

One would hope people familiar with meditation stopping the internal chatter would also master the art of listening.

 

Good point. Thanks for reminding me.

 

I think about Kuan Yin in times like this. The Bodhisattva is an excellent guide in such matters. We mere mortals however, lacking clear perception of all things, can never be sure if we are actually helping or not. Maybe I need to redefine 'help'.

[cold]

14 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

Good point. Thanks for reminding me.

 

I think about Kuan Yin in times like this. The Bodhisattva is an excellent guide in such matters. We mere mortals however, lacking clear perception of all things, can never be sure if we are actually helping or not. Maybe I need to redefine 'help'.

Bold by me

 

Had a local homeless person who came to the farm from time to time. First time I took him to lunch he ordered a crab cake sub, it was of course the most expensive item on the menu. It was hot outside, he couldn't eat but maybe half the sub.Threw the rest away. Thereafter I would offer to share a pizza with him he always took me up on those offers to share a pizza. He would call it "breaking the bread" as in "Mr C wanna break some bread with me?"

 

He died almost a year ago. I miss him.

[thelerner]

Random thoughts

Compassion is good, but not enough..

it doesn't cook the rice. <as my sensei would say>

 

So, help, when you can.

Knowing you can't help everyone or every time

but when possible.. try..

 

Doing something, something real, 

helps them, helps you, helps the world a little bit. 

Cause maybe deeds echo on,

and a little kindness brings on more.

[Taomeow]

Compassion is something most people have never experienced.  Empathy, maybe.  Empathy is fleeting and doesn't disrupt your own life.

 

Compassion derails it completely.   A power tremendously greater than self-preservation, self-interest, self-care, self-help, self-anything grabs hold of you, plucks you out of your life and crucifies you on the altar of devotion to the one you feel compassion for.   

 

I know what I'm talking about. 

 

Language is funny...    

[Lost in Translation]

6 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

Compassion derails it completely.   A power tremendously greater than self-preservation, self-interest, self-care, self-help, self-anything grabs hold of you, plucks you out of your life and crucifies you on the altar of devotion to the one you feel compassion for. 

 

This is powerful. Thank you.

 

[3bob]

a subtle and gentle wind that pierces crashing seas of thought and emotion, suddenly the raging storm is calmed and the cruel iron chains are removed, giving one rest and peace and then deeper still to an unveiling of truth and its freedom!  

[Marblehead]

3 hours ago, 3bob said:

a subtle and gentle wind that pierces crashing seas of thought and emotion, suddenly the raging storm is calmed and the cruel iron chains are removed, giving one rest and peace and then deeper still to an unveiling of truth and its freedom!  

When is this going to happen?

 

[cold]

3 hours ago, 3bob said:

a subtle and gentle wind that pierces crashing seas of thought and emotion, suddenly the raging storm is calmed and the cruel iron chains are removed, giving one rest and peace and then deeper still to an unveiling of truth and its freedom!  

 

9 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

When is this going to happen?

 

 

Uh, when you fall asleep?

[ljazztrumpet]

On 11/15/2017 at 0:22 AM, Lost in Translation said:

We all know people who are suffering. Many of us may also be suffering.

 

We cultivate compassion towards others, and towards ourselves. This is good. This is excellent. But what does that actually mean? For example, you know people who are suffering. You feel compassion towards them. What's next? Do you reach out to help? If so, how can you help without enabling? How do you know that your actions are truly compassionate? It may be that the best compassion is to do nothing.

 

Ideas?

I've studied spiritual healing for a number of years and had quite a number of profound experiences. As far as compassion, it depends on how you define it. This I can tell you. Across the board, in all different belief paradigms, I have seen that the few people with a very highly developed love consciousness are the ones that can effect physical and/or emotional healings in people where traditional and alternative medicine has failed. These people are also the ones who emphasize the importance to the people they are helping, that healing themselves/keeping themselves healthy is done through developing a very high degree of love consciousness. Along with this, I always notice these people have great humility, and would never think of taking any type of 'credit' for the work they do. Many times they realize that Life forced them to the place in consciousness that they're at, and it doesn't have anything to do with their ego selves. 

 

So to answer the question of how do you know your actions are truly compassionate. In the way I look at things, from all the experiences I've had in spiritual healing, you can know your actions to help someone else are positive and compassionate if you are able to effect any physical/emotional healing in them. Better yet, and what seems to take place more often in this day and age, is the ability to show someone how they can heal themselves through highly developed love consciousness. Even if you are at a high enough level of love consciousness to heal a person, they still have to have the tools to maintain their healing. They have to lift their own love consciousness up to a very high level. I was just talking with a lady who has healed two people this past year who were totally blind, now they can see. But it doesn't have to be that grandiose. Sometimes just being there for a person and listening with a non-judgmental ear and 'sending' them love can effect a huge change in a person and even save their life if they are feeling depressed. 

[ljazztrumpet]

16 hours ago, 3bob said:

a subtle and gentle wind that pierces crashing seas of thought and emotion, suddenly the raging storm is calmed and the cruel iron chains are removed, giving one rest and peace and then deeper still to an unveiling of truth and its freedom!  

 

13 hours ago, Marblehead said:

When is this going to happen?

 

 

13 hours ago, cold said:

 

 

Uh, when you fall asleep?

Cha! It's happening all over the world to people right now. IMO, there are more humans at a more developed level of consciousness than ever before in traditionally recorded human history. It may not seem so because the media focuses on negative things and tragedies and the like. This is not necessarily bad because it brings peoples' attention to problems that still need to be addressed. Things are way better than they were 100 years ago. It may not seem so because of the media, but I feel that's because of technology - the internet and the like. Everything has greatly 'shrunk', and we get our information extremely quickly in this day and age in most cases. But I believe if we had the technology 100 years ago that we do now, there would be much more negativity being reported 100 years ago than compared to nowadays. 

 

Should it happen more quickly - the winds of transformation changing everything and ending suffering? Well, imo, of course it should. I can't be that surrendered - at least most of the time. I have had some mystical-type experiences in deep meditation where I really saw everything was perfect just the way it is and nothing needs to be changed (including actions to create change). But, then my thinking mind came in and I went about my day and said, 'Hey, that's crazy! Things need to change and suffering needs to end!'.. But it was good for me to have those mystical experiences because it was yet another way of showing me that there are things 'greater/wiser' than my thinking mind. 

 

Now that I am writing this out, I see a great outlook to have would be to realize that everything really is perfect the way it is, nothing needs to be changed, and all my actions to try to heal and help myself and others needn't be changed either. It would probably be the most effective for me to develop this outlook all the time, as I wouldn't have any type of undercurrent of frustration/anger about suffering going on in the world. I could act from a higher place of love and understanding which would probably bring greater clarity to my actions and apparent decisions. I wouldn't be surprised if Life forced me into this outlook sooner or later!

[Lost in Translation]

8 hours ago, ljazztrumpet said:

But I believe if we had the technology 100 years ago that we do now, there would be much more negativity being reported 100 years ago than compared to nowadays.

 

Yeah! 100 years ago was WWI - "The Great War", "The War to End All Wars". Mustard gas? Trenches in Europe? 

 

"The total number of military and civilian casualties in World War I was more than 41 million: there were over 18 million deaths and 23 million wounded, ranking it among the deadliest conflicts in human history."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties

 

8 hours ago, ljazztrumpet said:

'Hey, that's crazy! Things need to change and suffering needs to end!'

 

Ironic, is it not, that such thoughts are themselves a form of suffering?

 

8 hours ago, ljazztrumpet said:

I see a great outlook to have would be to realize that everything really is perfect the way it is, nothing needs to be changed, and all my actions to try to heal and help myself and others needn't be changed either.

 

Very nice. This needs to be said over, and over and over again.

 

8 hours ago, ljazztrumpet said:

I see a great outlook to have would be to realize that everything really is perfect the way it is, nothing needs to be changed, and all my actions to try to heal and help myself and others needn't be changed either.

 

8 hours ago, ljazztrumpet said:

I see a great outlook to have would be to realize that everything really is perfect the way it is, nothing needs to be changed, and all my actions to try to heal and help myself and others needn't be changed either.

 

[ljazztrumpet]

4 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

 

Ironic, is it not, that such thoughts are themselves a form of suffering?

 

It really is! Even though I find it also to be a motivating factor, I believe that it's better to be motivated from a positive outlook, and my actions will have even more clarity and effectiveness from a totally positive standpoint.

9 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

Very nice. This needs to be said over, and over and over again.

Yeah, it was hearing that idea from different sources that I believe allowed me to consider that possibility. Even though I used to get angry when I heard it.. But, then, I had a couple of mystical experiences after a lot of meditation, over a couple of years ago, and saw that that was actually the case - or, at least, it was a 'higher/wiser perspective' than that which usually comes from my thinking mind.

 

I have good arguments with myself about this

[Lost in Translation]

 

9 hours ago, ljazztrumpet said:

'Hey, that's crazy! Things need to change and suffering needs to end!'

 

25 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

Ironic, is it not, that such thoughts are themselves a form of suffering?

 

9 hours ago, ljazztrumpet said:

I see a great outlook to have would be to realize that everything really is perfect the way it is, nothing needs to be changed, and all my actions to try to heal and help myself and others needn't be changed either.

 

26 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

Very nice. This needs to be said over, and over and over again.

 

13 minutes ago, ljazztrumpet said:

Yeah, it was hearing that idea from different sources that I believe allowed me to consider that possibility.

 

Suffering is suffering.

The desire the end suffering is suffering.

Acceptance of suffering is the end of suffering.

Acceptance of the desire to end suffering is the end of suffering.

 

I think we're on to something here...

[ljazztrumpet]

3 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Suffering is suffering.

The desire the end suffering is suffering.

Acceptance of suffering is the end of suffering.

Acceptance of the desire to end suffering is the end of suffering.

 

I think we're on to something here...

Yeah man, we are. And that's a great way to put it.. Thanks!

[Stosh]

40 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Suffering is suffering.

The desire the end suffering is suffering.

Acceptance of suffering is the end of suffering.

Acceptance of the desire to end suffering is the end of suffering.

 

I think we're on to something here...

IMO , it is Just the end of MY suffering over, ' Your ' situation. 

Compassion is when one integrates another individuals welfare into their own realm of concern, therefore compassion is taking on more suffering oneself. If one is going to absorb some actual suffering , they have to bring it on themselves and either console the other , or fix the issue. This thing where folks just worry about whether they alone have issues , and pretend they are being compassionate IMO...  is a pretense.

One may be disposed towards compassion , sitting in a cave somewhere living off the handouts of -actually compassionate people , but they aren't fixing issues of anyone but themselves. 

[ljazztrumpet]

Righto - But there are people who have overcome suffering and are able to take on others suffering without suffering themselves. Example - The most prolific healer I'm aware of, who healed tens of thousands of people in Germany and Europe in the 1940's and 50's, had two dots that showed up on his X-Rays at the end of his life. One was small, and one was big. The small one he said was from all the people he helped to heal and he said that was fine, it didn't bother him at all. The big one was the suppression of his energy as the German government kept trying to prohibit him from healing. That's what killed him. He predicted his death years before and how it would happen.

 

At the end of his life he was walking around and talking to people and his whole insides were burned out. The doctors at the time couldn't understand how he could possibly still be walking around. When he died, the doctors didn't know what to call it, so they said he died of cancer. When he died, there was very unusual weather phenomenon that happened at that moment with thunderstorms and the like just out of nowhere. Reminds me of some of the stories you hear about the big JC dying at crucifixion.

 

All of this reminds me of people who go through torturous deaths and are laughing and singing..or the buddhist monk types who self-immolate and sit there totally peacefully. It shows me that the suffering isn't there. They may experience pain, yes, but they don't judge it as 'good' or 'bad' at the deepest of levels within themselves..No thought of, 'The pain shouldn't be here..I wish it would stop, etc.' So no suffering.

 

At a much 'lower' level, I notice that, as I evolve in love consciousness, I am able to take on a friends suffering without having it effect me as much as it used to. 

 

Oh, here's a good clip of John Sherman (from justonelook.org) talking about this idea of having intense pain and not suffering from it.

 

 

[Stosh]

Righto - But there are people who have overcome suffering and are able to take on others suffering without suffering themselves. Example - The most prolific healer I'm aware of, who healed tens of thousands of people in Germany and Europe in the 1940's and 50's, had two dots that showed up on his X-Rays at the end of his life. One was small, and one was big. The small one he said was from all the people he helped to heal and he said that was fine, it didn't bother him at all. The big one was the suppression of his energy as the German government kept trying to prohibit him from healing. That's what killed him. He predicted his death years before and how it would happen.

 

At the end of his life he was walking around and talking to people and his whole insides were burned out. The doctors at the time couldn't understand how he could possibly still be walking around. When he died, the doctors didn't know what to call it, so they said he died of cancer. When he died, there was very unusual weather phenomenon that happened at that moment with thunderstorms and the like just out of nowhere. Reminds me of some of the stories you hear about the big JC dying at crucifixion.

 

All of this reminds me of people who go through torturous deaths and are laughing and singing..or the buddhist monk types who self-immolate and sit there totally peacefully. It shows me that the suffering isn't there. They may experience pain, yes, but they don't judge it as 'good' or 'bad' at the deepest of levels within themselves..No thought of, 'The pain shouldn't be here..I wish it would stop, etc.' So no suffering.

 

At a much 'lower' level, I notice that, as I evolve in love consciousness, I am able to take on a friends suffering without having it effect me as much as it used to. 

 

Oh, here's a good clip of John Sherman (from justonelook.org) talking about this idea of having intense pain and not suffering from it.

 

OK accepted with caveat , You probably know already , or can guess, I dismiss most of that sort of mysterious stuff, I will agree otherwise ,especially  the implicit thing , that it can be easier to take on someone else's concerns with more ease, but with the same level of concern ,as one would have for themselves, and that's a nice thing too...,, just not while actually ignoring them   

[ljazztrumpet]

Yeah man, absolutely. If I have more ease/clarity/wisdom/love within myself, I am better able to help someone else. To get to the place with everyone (not just loved ones) where I have the same level of concern for them as myself is something I really desire.

 

 I think it's definitely good to be skeptical of the 'mysterious stuff', especially in this day and age. If you are really curious, just ask Life/The Universe/Etc. to put you into contact with someone who has had those types of experiences. Hey, it's worth a shot and you might be surprised!

Edited November 17, 2017 by ljazztrumpet
Spelling

[C T]

On 11/15/2017 at 5:22 AM, Lost in Translation said:

We all know people who are suffering. Many of us may also be suffering.

 

We cultivate compassion towards others, and towards ourselves. This is good. This is excellent. But what does that actually mean? For example, you know people who are suffering. You feel compassion towards them. What's next? Do you reach out to help? If so, how can you help without enabling? How do you know that your actions are truly compassionate? It may be that the best compassion is to do nothing.

 

Ideas?

Compassion is a universal principle, evident in the most fundamental to the most profound change. 

Its impersonal, and it permeates to levels far above & beyond considerations limited to the alleviation of human sufferings. 

[3bob]

as long as we are caught in our karmas, egos, and whatever else may be in play the saying that everything is perfect can be a rather trite and anguish causing concept for some... 

 

as for working within duality towards non-duality everything is not perfect for or to beings bound by their karmas, egos, and whatever else may be in play - thus all the teachers, teachings and practices about a return to peace.  Also everything in the One is perfect in a certain sense or with a certain perception and state of being yet the One also contains greater and lesser freedoms or realities per permutations to the ten thousand - meaning that in that context there are greater and lesser perfections so to speak, namely and anywhere  from being at the threshold of non-duality or in a heavy karmic hell.   

[Taomeow]

7 minutes ago, C T said:

Compassion is a universal principle, evident in the most fundamental to the most profound change. 

Its impersonal, and it permeates to levels far above & beyond considerations limited to the alleviation of human sufferings. 

 

Yes, it is universal, but I believe it is intensely personal.   Here's a few illustrations:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[C T]

Impersonal as in 'non-discriminatory', or dispassionateness. 

 

Or, maybe to help one understand what to do with compassion and its impersonal process, simply consider, not just the outer displays, but the very nature of how compassion unfolds without the least bias present.  

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by C T