Indians Hopi and aliens

[Lois]

Aliens flew to the Hopi Indians in ancient times and they created a tradition to portray these aliens (kachin) in the form of dolls. And the dolls will tell you not weak ....!
Here, for example, such. Kachina
Pay attention to the prices. Prices are considerable. In general, all this has turned into a business. Now, other tribes of Indians have pulled themselves into this business.

[Nungali]

Don't culturally misappropriate a spiritual tradition (from the other side of the planet from you )  as a vehicle for your alien nonsense  .  Theyt didn't 'fly' anywhere !

 

" The exact origin of the kachinas is not completely known, but according to one version of Hopi belief, the kachinas were beneficent spirit-beings who came with the Hopis from the underworld. The underworld is a concept common to all the Pueblo Indians. It is a place where the spirits or shades live: the newly born come from there and the dead return there. " -   Wiki .

 

... so, unless your 'aliens'  were 'Morlocks ' ..... 

[Apech]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

Don't culturally misappropriate a spiritual tradition (from the other side of the planet from you )  as a vehicle for your alien nonsense  .  Theyt didn't 'fly' anywhere !

 

" The exact origin of the kachinas is not completely known, but according to one version of Hopi belief, the kachinas were beneficent spirit-beings who came with the Hopis from the underworld. The underworld is a concept common to all the Pueblo Indians. It is a place where the spirits or shades live: the newly born come from there and the dead return there. " -   Wiki .

 

... so, unless your 'aliens'  were 'Morlocks ' ..... 

 

 

Please do not mess this thread up with facts!

 

 

[zerostao]

Unless your Hopi, it's all speculation as to what they believe. Harold Courlander who wrote  The Fourth World of the Hopis: The Epic Story of the Hopi Indians as Preserved in their Legends and Traditions states that "There is a Hopi reticence about discussing matters that could be considered ritual secrets or religion-oriented traditions."

The Star people are talked about by the Hopi, the Ant people, Spider Grandmother, Twin War Gods, Tawa, Lost white Brother,

and the Kachina being discussed here. One version of several says that they are from the underworld. That doesnt qualify as a fact.

The Aztec were fooled and thought that the conquistadors were the Whitey of legend. The Hopi knew better.

Don't forget about Coyote either.

[Lois]

On 16.11.2017 at 11:11 PM, Nungali said:

Don't culturally misappropriate a spiritual tradition (from the other side of the planet from you )  as a vehicle for your alien nonsense  .  Theyt didn't 'fly' anywhere !

 

" The exact origin of the kachinas is not completely known, but according to one version of Hopi belief, the kachinas were beneficent spirit-beings who came with the Hopis from the underworld. The underworld is a concept common to all the Pueblo Indians. It is a place where the spirits or shades live: the newly born come from there and the dead return there. " -   Wiki .

 

... so, unless your 'aliens'  were 'Morlocks ' ..... 

For what he bought, for that and sold .... I read about this in an article in Russian. Perhaps the problem is that the Indians hide their secrets. The Indian told me about this.

[Nungali]

You read about it in Russian , yet you claim an Indian told you about it ?

 

An Indian that writes in Russian ?   I suppose it's possible    

 

The Indians hide their secrets  (from in depth anthropological research apparently )  but NOT   from Russian texts and conversations with Russians ?

 

 

There is my damn lineal logic again !     

[Apech]

26 minutes ago, Nungali said:

You read about it in Russian , yet you claim an Indian told you about it ?

 

An Indian that writes in Russian ?   I suppose it's possible    

 

The Indians hide their secrets  (from in depth anthropological research apparently )  but NOT   from Russian texts and conversations with Russians ?

 

 

There is my damn lineal logic again !     

 

Don't be so pedantic.

[Lois]

11 hours ago, Nungali said:

You read about it in Russian , yet you claim an Indian told you about it ?

 

An Indian that writes in Russian ?   I suppose it's possible    

 

The Indians hide their secrets  (from in depth anthropological research apparently )  but NOT   from Russian texts and conversations with Russians ?

 

 

There is my damn lineal logic again !     

I do not know how they got such information. I can only assume (this is most likely) that this is a retelling of some sources in English. However, in Russian Wikipedia it is said that the kachina is connected with cosmology.

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Don't be so pedantic

 

 

 

The Basques are aliens that build UFOs in underground France ....  and damn any 'minor details' that try to shoot my story down !  

 

Spoiler

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Nungali

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, Lois said:

I do not know how they got such information. I can only assume (this is most likely) that this is a retelling of some sources in English. However, in Russian Wikipedia it is said that the kachina is connected with cosmology.

 

I thought you said that an Indian told you ? 

 

Whoops !  There I go with  'mere details' again   

 

Cosmology don't mean 'aliens'  'flying'    ....   "  Religious or mythological cosmology is a body of beliefs based on mythological, religious, and esoteric literature and traditions of creation myths and eschatology. "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmology

 

So if Kachina 'doll' is connected to cosmology , could mean lots of things !

 

 

These dolls are connected to cosmology too

 

 

 

But it does not mean they are aliens that flew to us

[Lois]

 

[zerostao]

https://www.pueblodirect.com/collections/kachinas

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, Lois said:

 

 

 

Pfffft !         I aint watching  an hour and a half of that rubbish !   He is using old  youtube alternative science woo-woo that got debunked years back !  (like the 'Orion Theory' .    And, as he said , they have many types of  headdresses , but "some look like  space helmets "

 

" Space   helmets  " .....   really    ?     What type of space helmet .....  the one's that  were used by 'Earthlings' between  1960s and 2020 ? -   in the narrow corridor of the present        

 

 

 

or the ones we used in the past

 

 

or like one's we will use in the future

[Nungali]

... and Kachinas do not 'come from  outer space' , nor need space helmets ,

 

Within Hopi religion, the kachinas are said to live on the San Francisco Peaks near Flagstaff, Arizona

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kachina#Kachina_dolls

 

 

.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Nungali

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, zerostao said:

https://www.pueblodirect.com/collections/kachinas

 

 

Cool !  Sorta like a '3D  tarot set '   , each one is codified semantics that encompass a range of teaching and knowledge . I particularly like this one ;

 

 

looks a bit like an  Aussie 'totem pole ' ( except for the modern colours ) .

 

 

[Lois]

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Pfffft !         I aint watching  an hour and a half of that rubbish !   He is using old  youtube alternative science woo-woo that got debunked years back !  (like the 'Orion Theory' .   

 

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

[Nungali]

Part of your own doll collection  is it Lois ?

[Lois]

26 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Part of your own doll collection  is it Lois ?

yes. This is a very cool girl. She is dedicated to a whole story

 

Laura Shay, a black woman in her early 30s, used to be a member of Brooklyn’s

 

middle class. The joy of her life was working at her knitting store in downtown

 

Manhattan, and although her customer base was not strong, she was a woman of

 

strength and pure of heart. Tall, strong physically and emotionally, Laura had

 

everything she needed.

 

One day, though, Laura decided to grow her small and local business by

 

advertising in local TV with her hard-earned money from various odd jobs around

 

the city. Although business at first from this new venture was slow, the word got

 

out and rapidly spread as “Laura’s Vestments” came to the attention of newsroom

 

coverage and mass media. Her business, although small, grew at a rapid pace.

 

This coverage proved to be so lucrative that the media alone increased her draw

 

of citizens not just from Brooklyn and Manhattan, but all of New York as this

 

advertising on the local TV drew in new customers from all across the state. And

 

not just the state, but fringe cities beyond the state! Unlike her previous few

 

customers, this new mass rush of customers praised the basic composition of her

 

work, which oddly was desirable for its lack of ornamentation and sensible build.

 

It was just plain, economic, but above all, resistant to any of the rigors of the

 

daily life, ideal for the working housewife or factory worker underneath a uniform.

 

Laura was happy, but she was also panicked within...

 

…For her store could not contain these mass rushes of customers, all clamoring

 

to purchase this wildly popular product and wear it for themselves. As it stood,

 

some customers had to stand in a line outside her store just to get in, and

 

judging by the remarks of those she passed by on the street, her small core of

 

employees, whom she had previously struggled to pay, and the simple

 

dimensions of her store were simply not enough to handle the influx of these new

 

customers, and they were dispersing in dissatisfaction because of it. Laura had to

 

act, and quickly, for she was running out of time and creativity.

 

She sought advice from her loved ones, mostly her mother, aunt, and uncle, for

 

they had supported the business since its inception. Though it was nearing the

 

end, her store’s existence, as fewer and fewer customers came in to purchase

 

her wares, and her employees were leaving, as well, due to sheer stress and

 

frustration.

 

Finally, one of the top clothing designers of New York knocked on her door, and

 

after the resulting conversation, Laura walked away with a contract and the

 

newfound strength she needed to close her business and reopen it a warehouse

 

in upper Manhattan. Laura Shay was back, and she was ready to commence the

 

new stage of her business. But to begin, she needed help.

 

 

 

She turned to her employees who had remained at her store in the face of

 

adversity, and asked them to become part of this new venture. Those employees

 

who agreed stayed at the small store in the meantime while the others remained,

 

but would find work elsewhere when the small store closed. When this was done,

 

Laura selected a warehouse amongst a block of businesses and outfitted it to her

 

use by installing mass production machines and other necessities of a new

 

business such as a point-of- sale system that would log every product her new

 

company produced, and the old products too would be logged to join the new

 

wave of clothing.

 

 

 

Laura Shay couldn’t be happier; everything was in place. Her new point of sale

 

system was active, her employees were clothed in their new uniforms, and not

 

only that, but Laura knew deep down in her heart that the future was bright.

 

Posting about her newly-reopened business using social networking, running ads

 

in the newspapers, advertisements on TV and even in the cinema, the day of the

 

opening drew nearer and nearer, and in response, many would-be customers

 

flooded the main store’s front doors, eagerly awaiting the time the doors would

 

open and the shopping to begin.

 

At last! The final hour! The grand reopening! And Laura Shay couldn’t wait. She

 

strode to the front door to open the doors for herself, to walk boldly forth and

 

greet the masses…

 

But then tragedy struck! Suddenly, Laura heard screaming of various ages;

 

elderly, middle-aged, young adult, children, and even domesticated animals

 

created a cacophony that made her sob as gunfire roared out from the crowd.

 

The would-be shoppers panicked; they ran every which way to get away from

 

the crazed gunmen, but their target wasn’t any of the shoppers – it was the black

 

woman who had dared to open a business in their neighborhood. They had

 

followed the store and its proceedings ever since the first TV station aired a

 

commercial featuring the original store, and had planned for its downfall once it

 

grew to popularity, in this case the death of Laura Shay. Without the CEO, there

 

would be no business to run, and the white supremacists smirked as they held

 

Laura at gunpoint. “Bitch, you think you can just waltz into our neighborhood and

 

open your little clothing store run by your black self?” The first gunman pointed

 

his gun into Laura’s mouth and cocked the trigger. “Any last words before I send

 

you to hell?”

 

 

 

Laura nodded, and the gunman tightened his figure on the trigger. “Well spit it

 

out, past this gun.”

 

“Hah! Not that she can,” sneered the other. Laura noticed that they were both

 

dressed in white hoods… they all knew where this was going, and Laura was no

 

novice to men like these declaring racial supremacy against those they killed,

 

even if they were of the same ethnicity. She had seen this coming from miles

 

away, and while she was regretful that it was happening on the day of her new

 

store opening, she gazed at the street, the empty street that had once held the

 

throngs of the eager masses, the consumers of her utilitarian and useful clothing

 

that would no longer be enjoyed by anyone. To make matters even worse, these

 

men were wearing some of the clothing that she had created from the original

 

store themselves! A sick twist of agony, and Laura could not bear to watch as

 

she closed her eyes and, changing her mind about her one-phrase utterance,

 

shook her head almost imperceptibly.

 

And then, as the gunman squeezed the trigger, Laura Shay knew no more,

 

another victim of those who held themselves as gods above the minorities.

[Nungali]

Yes ..... I can see you playing with the doll and reciting that story while you mimic it (badly ) with the doll .

 

Except you didn't write that did you Lois ?  You just copied it off the internet .  Like you selected the dolly picture from the internet  and posted it randomly here .

 

Why ? 

 

I am supposing to try and divert from the issue that what you posted previously was shown to be rubbish ... silly new age mis appropriation of culture knowledge .

 

Not that your type ever just comes out with it . There is a claim and then linking to irrelevant long vids ( with no summary or even comment from them ) , they post   out of context pictures ,  some that are  photo shopped .  And go  on about some alien UFO stuff or other New age BS  and ...

 

.........   oh !   ....   Ooooooo   ...   I mean   ......   thank you   -   come again !   

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Nungali

[9th]

 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

Yes ..... I can see you playing with the doll and reciting that story while you mimic it (badly ) with the doll .

 

Except you didn't write that did you Lois ?  You just copied it off the internet .  Like you selected the dolly picture from the internet  and posted it randomly here .

 

Why ? 

 

I am supposing to try and divert from the issue that what you posted previously was shown to be rubbish ... silly new age mis appropriation of culture knowledge .

 

Not that your type ever just comes out with it . There is a claim and then linking to irrelevant long vids ( with no summary or even comment from them ) , they post   out of context pictures ,  some that are  photo shopped .  And go  on about some alien UFO stuff or other New age BS  and ...

 

.........   oh !   ....   Ooooooo   ...   I mean   ......   thank you   -   come again ! 

 

 

How do you know that he didn't write it in the first place and post it on the internet?

 

You are dragging this whole thing down with your insistence on relevance and accuracy.  When are you going to start thinking outside the box?

 

 

[9th]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

your type

 

[Nungali]

13 hours ago, Apech said:

 

How do you know that he didn't write it in the first place and post it on the internet?

 

 

I went outside my box and had a look.

 

13 hours ago, Apech said:

 

You are dragging this whole thing down with your insistence on relevance and accuracy.  When are you going to start thinking outside the box?

 

 

 

Sorry if I offended you by me not seeing how relevant Lois' dolly and her story is to Hopi Indians        

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

 

I went outside my box and had a look.

 

 

Sorry if I offended you by me not seeing how relevant Lois' dolly and her story is to Hopi Indians        

 

It's all about inclusivity and symbiotic additionalities, I would have thought that was obvious.  Once you escape the paradigm of your rigid world view where dollies and Hopi Indians occupy separate conceptual spaces you may begin to understand that truth is additive and does not comprise singular thought-fact placements. A placement being a space in which a certain defined operational actuality does or does not have performative effect.

 

Ok?

[Nungali]

Sure, its okay  .......    but  argot   some other things to do now.

 

 

Spoiler