What is Non-duality?

[Wells]

.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Wells

[dwai]

  On 12/7/2017 at 3:46 PM, Wells said:

 

Well, that's exactly what I call a dualistic view.

When starting from a dualistic view, we have to use a dualistic method.

When one recognizes what it is like to abide in Pure Awareness, all methods can be discarded. 

[Wells]

.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Wells

[Wells]

.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Wells

[dwai]

  On 12/7/2017 at 3:55 PM, Wells said:

 

Dzogchen 101: In dzogchen, everything has to be integrated and nothing has to be removed right from the start.

 

Czatgchen 101: In Czatgchen everything has to be accepted and let go, and nothing has to be integrated ever. 

[Wells]

.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Wells

[3bob]

if folks are going to be mixing up Buddhism and Hinduism in the Hindu forum then maybe this thread should be moved to the general forum instead...

[Gunther]

  On 12/7/2017 at 3:38 PM, Jeff said:

 

That too many mistake the natural state for a momentarily quiet mind. 

It is there, the presence that knows the quiet mind. It is simply you.

[Jonesboy]

  Reveal hidden contents

Stanzas on Vibration

Translated by MARK S. G. DYCZKOWSKI

 

1. WE PRAISE THAT SANKARA WHO IS THE

SOURCE OP THE POWER OF THE WHEEL OF

ENERGIES BY WHOSE EXPANSION (UNMESA)

AND CONTRACTION (NIMESA) THE UNIVERSE

IS ABSORBED AND COMES INTO BEING.

 

2. THAT IN WHICH ALL THIS CREATION IS

ESTABLISHED AND FROM WHENCE IT ARISES

IS NOWHERE OBSTRUCTED BECAUSE IT IS

UNCONDITIONED BY (ITS VERY) NATURE.

 

3. EVEN WHEN DIVISION PREVAILS DUE TO

THE WAKING AND OTHER STATES, IT EXTENDS

THROUGH THAT WHICH IS UNDIVIDED

(TADABHINNA) BECAUSE THE PERCEIVING

SUBJECTIVITY FOREVER REMAINS TRUE TO ITS

OWN NATURE.

 

4. NO NOTIONS SUCH AS: 'I AM HAPPY,' 'I AM

MISERABLE' OR 'I AM ATTACHED' (EXIST

INDEPENDENTLY). THEY ALL CLEARLY RESIDE

ELSEWHERE, NAMELY, (IN THAT) WHICH

THREADS THROUGH (ALL) THE STATES OF

PLEASURE AND THE REST.

 

5. THAT EXISTS IN THE ULTIMATE SENSE

WHERE THERE IS NEITHER PLEASURE NOR

PAIN, SUBJECT NOR OBJECT, NOR AN ABSENCE

OF CONSCIOUSNESS.

 

6 - 7 . THAT PRINCIPLE SHOULD BE EXAMINED

WITH EFFORT AND REVERENCE BECAUSE THIS,

ITS UNCREATED FREEDOM, PREVAILS

EVERYWHERE. BY VIRTUE OF IT, THE SENSES,

ALONG WITH THE INNER CIRCLE, (ALTHOUGH)

UNCONSCIOUS BEHAVE AS IF CONSCIOUS IN

THEMSELVES AND MOVE TOWARDS (THEIR

OBJECTS), REST (THERE) AND WITHDRAW

(FROM THEM).

 

8. INDEED THE INDIVIDUAL SOUL (PURUSA)

DOES NOT ACTIVATE THE IMPULSE OF THE

WILL (WHICH DIRECTS THE BODY'S ACTIVITY)

BY HIMSELF ALONE, BUT THROUGH HIS CON­

TACT WITH (HIS) OWN (INNER) STRENGTH

(BALA) MADE IN SUCH A WAY THAT HE IDENTI­

FIES WITH IT, (THUS ACQUIRING ITS POWER).

 

9. AN INDIVIDUAL WHO, (THOUGH) DESIROUS

OF DOING VARIOUS THINGS, (BUT) INCAPABLE

OF DOING THEM DUE TO HIS INNATE

IMPURITY, (EXPERIENCES) THE SUPREME

STATE (PARAM PADAM) WHEN THE

DISRUPTION (KSOBHA) (OF HIS FALSE EGO)

CEASES.

 

10. THEN (THE SOUL REALIZES) THAT HIS

(TRUE) UNCREATED NATURE (DHARMA) IS

(UNIVERSAL) AGENCY AND PERCEIVING

SUBJECTIVITY, AND SO HE KNOWS AND DOES

WHATEVER (HE) DESIRES.

 

11. HOW CAN ONE WHO, AS IF ASTONISHED,

BEHOLDS HIS OWN NATURE AS THAT WHICH

SUSTAINS (ALL THINGS) BE SUBJECT TO THIS

ACCURSED ROUND OF TRANSMIGRATION?

 

12. NOTHINGNESS CAN NEVER BE AN OBJECT

OF CONTEMPLATION BECAUSE

CONSCIOUSNESS IS ABSENT THERE. (IT IS A

MISTAKE TO BELIEVE THAT ONE HAS

PERCEIVED NOTHINGNESS) BECAUSE WHEN

REFLECTION (SUBSEQUENTLY) INTERVENES,

ONE IS CERTAIN THAT ' IT WAS. '

 

13. THEREFORE CONSIDER THAT TO BE AN

ARTIFICIAL STATE SIMILAR TO DEEP SLEEP.

THAT PRINCIPLE IS FOREVER PERCEIVED AND

NOT REMEMBERED IN THIS WAY.

 

14. MOREOVER TWO STATES CALLED, ' 'THE

AGENT' AND ' PRODUCT OF ACTION' ABIDE

HERE. THE PRODUCT OF ACTION IS SUBJECT

TO DECAY WHEREAS AGENCY IS

IMPERISHABLE.

 

15. ONLY THE EFFORT DIRECTED TOWARDS

THE PRODUCT OF ACTION DISAPPEARS HERE

(IN STATES OF INTENSE INTROVERTED

CONTEMPLATION) . WHEN THAT CEASES THE

UNENLIGHTENED BELIEVES THAT HIS OWN

EXISTENCE CEASES (WITH IT).

 

16. THAT INNER BEING IS THE ABODE OF

OMNISCIENCE AND EVERY OTHER DIVINE

ATTRIBUTE. IT CAN NEVER CEASE TO EXIST

BECAUSE NOTHING ELSE CAN BE PERCEIVED

(OUTSIDE IT) .

 

17. THE FULLY AWAKENED (YOGl ' s ) PERCEP­

TION OF THAT (REALITY) IS CONSTANT (AND

ABIDES) UNALTERED IN ALL THREE STATES,

WHEREAS OTHERS (PERCEIVE) THAT ONLY AT

THE END OF THE FIRST (TADADYANTE).

 

18. THE OMNIPRESENT LORD APPEARS IN TWO

STATES IN UNION WITH (HIS) SUPREME

POWER WHOSE FORM IS KNOWLEDGE AND ITS

OBJECT. ELSEWHERE, APART FROM THESE

(TWO STATES, HE MANIFESTS) AS PURE

CONSCIOUSNESS.

 

19. THE STREAMS OF THE PULSATION

(SPANDA) OF THE QUALITIES ALONG WITH THE

OTHER (PRINCIPLES) ARE GROUNDED IN THE

UNIVERSAL VIBRATION (OF CONSCIOUSNESS)

AND SO ATTAIN BEING; THEREFORE THEY CAN

NEVER OBSTRUCT THE ENLIGHTENED.

 

2 0 . YET FOR THOSE WHOSE INTUITION SLUM­

BERS, (THESE VIBRATIONS OF CONSCIOUSNESS)

ARE INTENT ON DISRUPTING THEIR OWN

ABIDING STATE OF BEING (SVASTHITI ) , CAST­

ING THEM DOWN ONTO THE TERRIBLE PATH

OF TRANSMIGRATION SO HARD TO CROSS.

 

2 1 . THEREFORE HE WHO STRIVES CONSTANTLY

TO DISCERN THE SPANDA PRINCIPLE RAPIDLY

ATTAINS HIS OWN (TRUE) STATE OF BEING

EVEN WHILE IN THE WAKING STATE ITSELF.

 

2 2 . SPANDA IS STABLE IN THE STATE ONE

ENTERS WHEN EXTREMELY ANGRY,

INTENSELY EXCITED, RUNNING OR

WONDERING WHAT TO DO.

 

2 3 - 2 4 . ONCE ENTERED THAT STATE WHICH

(THE YOGI) TAKES AS HIS SUP PORT AND

FIRMLY RESOLVES THAT: ' I WILL SURELY DO

WHATEVER HE SAYS, ' BOTH THE SUN AND

MOON SET, FOLLOWING THE ASCENDING WAY,

INTO THE CHANNEL OF SUSUMNA, ONCE

ABANDONED THE SPHERE OF THE UNIVERSE.

 

2 5 . THEN IN THAT GREAT SKY, WHEN THE

SUN AND MOON DISSOLVE AWAY, THE DULL

MINDED (YOGI IS CAST DOWN) INTO A STATE

LIKE THAT OF DEEP SLEEP. THE AWAKENED

HOWEVER REMAINS LUCID.

 

2 6 . SEIZING THAT STRENGTH (BALA),

MANTRAS, ENDOWED WI TH THE POWER OF

OMNISCIENCE, PERFORM THEIR FUNCTIONS,

AS DO THE SENSES OF THE EMBODIED.

 

2 7 . IT IS THERE ALONE THAT THEY,

QUIESCENT AND STAINLESS, DISSOLVE AWAY

ALONG WITH THE ADEPT'S MIND AND SO

PARTAKE OF SIVA'S NATURE.

 

2 8 . EVERYTHING ARISES (OUT OF) THE

INDIVIDUAL SOUL, AND SO HE IS ALL THINGS

BECAUSE HE PERCEIVES HIS IDENTITY WITH

THE AWARENESS (HE HAS) OF THEM.

 

2 9 . THEREFORE THERE IS NO STATE IN THE

THOUGHTS OF WORDS OR (THEIR) MEANINGS

THAT IS NOT SIVA. IT IS THE ENJOYER ALONE

WHO ALWAYS AND EVERYWHERE ABIDES AS

THE OBJECT OF ENJOYMENT.

 

3 0 . OR, CONSTANTLY ATTENTIVE, AND

PERCEIVING THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE AS PLAY,

HE WHO HAS THI S AWARENESS (SAMVITTI ) IS

UNDOUBTEDLY LIBERATED IN THIS VERY LIFE.

 

31. THIS INDEED IS THE ARISING OF THAT

OBJECT OF MEDITATION IN THE MIND OF THE

MEDITATOR, NAMELY, THE ADEPT'S

REALIZATION OF HIS IDENTITY WITH IT BY

THE FORCE OF (HIS) INTENT.

 

3 2 . THIS ALONE IS THE ATTAINMENT OF THE

NECTAR OF IMMORTALITY, THI S INDEED IS TO

CATCH HOLD OF ONESELF, THI S IS THE

INITIATION OF NIRVANA WHICH BESTOWS

SIVA'S TRUE NATURE (SADBHAVA).

 

3 3 . REQUESTED BY THE WILL, THE

BENEFACTOR MAKES THE SUN AND MOON

RISE AND BESTOWS ON THE EMBODIED,

WHILE THEY WAKE, THE OBJECTS THAT ARE

IN (THEIR) HEART.

 

3 4 . SO ALSO IN THE DREAM STATE (SIVA) ,

RESIDING IN THE CENTER, MANIFESTS

WI THOUT EXCEPTION, ALWAYS AND MOST

VIVIDLY THE THINGS (HIS DEVOTEE) DESIRES

BECAUSE HE NEVER DESISTS FROM (HIS)

PRAYERFUL REQUEST.

 

3 5 . OTHERWI SE (AS HAP PENS NORMALLY) ,

THE GENERATION (OF IMAGES) WOULD BE

CONTINUOUS AND INDEPENDENT

THROUGHOUT THE WAKING AND DREAMING

STATES IN ACCORD WITH THEIR CHARACTER,

AS HAP PENS TO THE WORLDLY.

 

3 6 - 3 7 . JUST AS AN OBJECT WHICH IS NOT

SEEN CLEARLY AT FIRST, EVEN WHEN THE

MIND ATTENDS TO IT CAREFULLY, LATER

BECOMES FULLY EVIDENT WHEN OBSERVED

WI TH THE EFFORT EXERTED THROUGH ONE'S

OWN ( INHERENT) STRENGTH (SVABALA) ;

WHEN (THE YOGI ) LAYS HOLD OF THAT SAME

POWER IN THE SAME WAY, THEN WHATEVER

(HE PERCEIVES MANIFESTS TO HIM) QUICKLY

IN ACCORD WI TH ITS TRUE NATURE

(PARAMARTHENA), WHATEVER BE ITS FORM,

LOCUS, TIME OR STATE.

 

3 8 . LAYING HOLD OF THAT (STRENGTH) EVEN

A WEAK MAN ACHIEVES HIS GOAL, AND SO IN

THE SAME WAY A STARVING MAN CAN STILL

HIS HUNGER.

 

3 9 . WHEN THE BODY IS SUSTAINED BY THI S ,

ONE KNOWS EVERYTHING THAT HAP PENS

WI THIN IT. SIMILARLY (THIS SAME

OMNISCIENCE) WILL PREVAIL EVERYWHERE

(WHEN THE YOGI) FINDS HIS SUPPORT IN HIS

OWN NATURE.

 

4 0 . LASSITUDE RAVAGES THE BODY, AND

THIS ARISES FROM IGNORANCE. BUT IF IT IS

ELIMINATED BY AN EXPANSION OF

CONSCIOUSNESS (UNMESA), HOW CAN

( IGNORANCE) , DEPRIVED OF ITS CAUSE,

CONTINUE TO EXIST?

 

4 1 . THE EXPANSION OF CONSCIOUSNESS THAT

TAKES PLACE WHEN ONE IS ENGAGED IN A

SINGLE THOUGHT SHOULD BE KNOWN AS THE

SOURCE FROM WHENCE ANOTHER ARISES.

ONE SHOULD EXPERIENCE THAT FOR ONESELF.

 

4 2 . SHORTLY AFTER, FROM THAT (EXPANSION)

ARISES THE POINT (HINDU), FROM THAT

SOUND (NADA), FROM THAT FORM (RUPA), AND

FROM THAT TASTE (RASA) WHI CH DISTURB

THE EMBODIED SOUL.

 

4 3 . WHEN (THE YOGI 'S CONSCIOUSNESS)

PERVADES ALL THINGS BY (HIS) DESIRE TO

PERCEIVE, THEN WHY SPEAK MUCH? - HE

WILL EXPERIENCE IT FOR HIMSELF.

 

4 4 . AT ALL TIMES (THE YOGI ) SHOULD

REMAIN WELL AWAKE. HAVING WI TH (HIS)

PERCEPTION OBSERVED THE FIELD (OF

AWARENESS) , HE SHOULD DEPOSIT ALL IN ONE

PLACE, AND SO BE UNTROUBLED BY ANY

ALIEN (REALITY) .

 

4 5 . HE WHO IS DEPRIVED OF HIS POWER BY

THE FORCES OF OBSCURATION (KAIA), AND IS

A VICTIM OF THE POWERS ARISING FROM THE

MASS OF SOUNDS (SABDARASI), IS CALLED THE

FETTERED (PASU).

 

4 6 . OPERATING IN THE FIELD OF THE SUBTLE

ELEMENTS, THE ARISING OF MENTAL

REPRESENTATION (PRATYAYA) MARKS THE

DISAPPEARANCE OF THE FLAVOR OF THE

SUPREME NECTAR OF IMMORTALITY; DUE TO

THI S (MAN) FORFEITS HIS FREEDOM.

 

4 7 . MOREOVER THE POWERS (OF SPEECH) ARE

ALWAYS READY TO OBSCURE HIS NATURE AS

NO MENTAL REPRESENTATION CAN ARISE

UNPENETRATED BY SPEECH.

 

4 8 . THI S , SIVA'S POWER OF ACTION, RESIDING

IN THE FETTERED SOUL, BINDS IT, (BUT) WHEN

( ITS TRUE NATURE) IS UNDERSTOOD AND IT IS

SET ON ITS OWN PATH, (THIS POWER) BESTOWS

THE FRUITS OF YOGA (SIDDH1).*

 

4 9 - 5 0 . (THE SOUL) IS BOUND BY THE CITY OF

RIGHT (PURYASTAKA) THAT RESIDES IN THE

MIND, INTELLECT, AND EGO AND CONSISTS OF

THE ARISING OF THE (FIVE) SUBTLE ELEMENTS

(OF SENSORY PERCEPTION) . HE HELPLESSLY

SUFFERS WORLDLY EXPERIENCE (BHOGA)

WHICH CONSISTS OF THE ARISING OF MENTAL

REPRESENTATION BORN OF THAT (CITY OF

EIGHT) , AND SO ITS EXISTENCE SUBJECTS HIM

TO TRANSMIGRATION. THUS WE WILL

EXPLAIN HOW TO END THIS

TRANSMIGRATORY EXISTENCE.

 

51. BUT WHEN HE IS FIRMLY ESTABLISHED IN

ONE PLACE THAT IS THEN GENERATED AND

WITHDRAWN (BY HIM AT WILL) , HIS STATE

BECOMES THAT OF THE (UNIVERSAL) SUBJECT.

THUS HE BECOMES THE LORD OF THE WHEEL.

 

52. I REVERE THE WONDERFUL SPEECH OF

THE MASTER, WHOSE WORDS AND THEIR

MEANING ARE MARVELOUS; IT IS THE BOAT

THAT CARRIES ONE ACROSS THE FATHOMLESS

OCEAN OF DOUBT.

 

A nice step by step to the non dual.

[Jeff]

  On 12/7/2017 at 5:55 PM, Gunther said:

It is there, the presence that knows the quiet mind. It is simply you.

 

Not sure what you are trying to say here?  That the "presence that knows the quiet mind" is the "natural state"?

[Jeff]

  On 12/7/2017 at 5:59 PM, Jonesboy said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Stanzas on Vibration

Translated by MARK S. G. DYCZKOWSKI

 

1. WE PRAISE THAT SANKARA WHO IS THE

SOURCE OP THE POWER OF THE WHEEL OF

ENERGIES BY WHOSE EXPANSION (UNMESA)

AND CONTRACTION (NIMESA) THE UNIVERSE

IS ABSORBED AND COMES INTO BEING.

 

2. THAT IN WHICH ALL THIS CREATION IS

ESTABLISHED AND FROM WHENCE IT ARISES

IS NOWHERE OBSTRUCTED BECAUSE IT IS

UNCONDITIONED BY (ITS VERY) NATURE.

 

3. EVEN WHEN DIVISION PREVAILS DUE TO

THE WAKING AND OTHER STATES, IT EXTENDS

THROUGH THAT WHICH IS UNDIVIDED

(TADABHINNA) BECAUSE THE PERCEIVING

SUBJECTIVITY FOREVER REMAINS TRUE TO ITS

OWN NATURE.

 

4. NO NOTIONS SUCH AS: 'I AM HAPPY,' 'I AM

MISERABLE' OR 'I AM ATTACHED' (EXIST

INDEPENDENTLY). THEY ALL CLEARLY RESIDE

ELSEWHERE, NAMELY, (IN THAT) WHICH

THREADS THROUGH (ALL) THE STATES OF

PLEASURE AND THE REST.

 

5. THAT EXISTS IN THE ULTIMATE SENSE

WHERE THERE IS NEITHER PLEASURE NOR

PAIN, SUBJECT NOR OBJECT, NOR AN ABSENCE

OF CONSCIOUSNESS.

 

6 - 7 . THAT PRINCIPLE SHOULD BE EXAMINED

WITH EFFORT AND REVERENCE BECAUSE THIS,

ITS UNCREATED FREEDOM, PREVAILS

EVERYWHERE. BY VIRTUE OF IT, THE SENSES,

ALONG WITH THE INNER CIRCLE, (ALTHOUGH)

UNCONSCIOUS BEHAVE AS IF CONSCIOUS IN

THEMSELVES AND MOVE TOWARDS (THEIR

OBJECTS), REST (THERE) AND WITHDRAW

(FROM THEM).

 

8. INDEED THE INDIVIDUAL SOUL (PURUSA)

DOES NOT ACTIVATE THE IMPULSE OF THE

WILL (WHICH DIRECTS THE BODY'S ACTIVITY)

BY HIMSELF ALONE, BUT THROUGH HIS CON­

TACT WITH (HIS) OWN (INNER) STRENGTH

(BALA) MADE IN SUCH A WAY THAT HE IDENTI­

FIES WITH IT, (THUS ACQUIRING ITS POWER).

 

9. AN INDIVIDUAL WHO, (THOUGH) DESIROUS

OF DOING VARIOUS THINGS, (BUT) INCAPABLE

OF DOING THEM DUE TO HIS INNATE

IMPURITY, (EXPERIENCES) THE SUPREME

STATE (PARAM PADAM) WHEN THE

DISRUPTION (KSOBHA) (OF HIS FALSE EGO)

CEASES.

 

10. THEN (THE SOUL REALIZES) THAT HIS

(TRUE) UNCREATED NATURE (DHARMA) IS

(UNIVERSAL) AGENCY AND PERCEIVING

SUBJECTIVITY, AND SO HE KNOWS AND DOES

WHATEVER (HE) DESIRES.

 

11. HOW CAN ONE WHO, AS IF ASTONISHED,

BEHOLDS HIS OWN NATURE AS THAT WHICH

SUSTAINS (ALL THINGS) BE SUBJECT TO THIS

ACCURSED ROUND OF TRANSMIGRATION?

 

12. NOTHINGNESS CAN NEVER BE AN OBJECT

OF CONTEMPLATION BECAUSE

CONSCIOUSNESS IS ABSENT THERE. (IT IS A

MISTAKE TO BELIEVE THAT ONE HAS

PERCEIVED NOTHINGNESS) BECAUSE WHEN

REFLECTION (SUBSEQUENTLY) INTERVENES,

ONE IS CERTAIN THAT ' IT WAS. '

 

13. THEREFORE CONSIDER THAT TO BE AN

ARTIFICIAL STATE SIMILAR TO DEEP SLEEP.

THAT PRINCIPLE IS FOREVER PERCEIVED AND

NOT REMEMBERED IN THIS WAY.

 

14. MOREOVER TWO STATES CALLED, ' 'THE

AGENT' AND ' PRODUCT OF ACTION' ABIDE

HERE. THE PRODUCT OF ACTION IS SUBJECT

TO DECAY WHEREAS AGENCY IS

IMPERISHABLE.

 

15. ONLY THE EFFORT DIRECTED TOWARDS

THE PRODUCT OF ACTION DISAPPEARS HERE

(IN STATES OF INTENSE INTROVERTED

CONTEMPLATION) . WHEN THAT CEASES THE

UNENLIGHTENED BELIEVES THAT HIS OWN

EXISTENCE CEASES (WITH IT).

 

16. THAT INNER BEING IS THE ABODE OF

OMNISCIENCE AND EVERY OTHER DIVINE

ATTRIBUTE. IT CAN NEVER CEASE TO EXIST

BECAUSE NOTHING ELSE CAN BE PERCEIVED

(OUTSIDE IT) .

 

17. THE FULLY AWAKENED (YOGl ' s ) PERCEP­

TION OF THAT (REALITY) IS CONSTANT (AND

ABIDES) UNALTERED IN ALL THREE STATES,

WHEREAS OTHERS (PERCEIVE) THAT ONLY AT

THE END OF THE FIRST (TADADYANTE).

 

18. THE OMNIPRESENT LORD APPEARS IN TWO

STATES IN UNION WITH (HIS) SUPREME

POWER WHOSE FORM IS KNOWLEDGE AND ITS

OBJECT. ELSEWHERE, APART FROM THESE

(TWO STATES, HE MANIFESTS) AS PURE

CONSCIOUSNESS.

 

19. THE STREAMS OF THE PULSATION

(SPANDA) OF THE QUALITIES ALONG WITH THE

OTHER (PRINCIPLES) ARE GROUNDED IN THE

UNIVERSAL VIBRATION (OF CONSCIOUSNESS)

AND SO ATTAIN BEING; THEREFORE THEY CAN

NEVER OBSTRUCT THE ENLIGHTENED.

 

2 0 . YET FOR THOSE WHOSE INTUITION SLUM­

BERS, (THESE VIBRATIONS OF CONSCIOUSNESS)

ARE INTENT ON DISRUPTING THEIR OWN

ABIDING STATE OF BEING (SVASTHITI ) , CAST­

ING THEM DOWN ONTO THE TERRIBLE PATH

OF TRANSMIGRATION SO HARD TO CROSS.

 

2 1 . THEREFORE HE WHO STRIVES CONSTANTLY

TO DISCERN THE SPANDA PRINCIPLE RAPIDLY

ATTAINS HIS OWN (TRUE) STATE OF BEING

EVEN WHILE IN THE WAKING STATE ITSELF.

 

2 2 . SPANDA IS STABLE IN THE STATE ONE

ENTERS WHEN EXTREMELY ANGRY,

INTENSELY EXCITED, RUNNING OR

WONDERING WHAT TO DO.

 

2 3 - 2 4 . ONCE ENTERED THAT STATE WHICH

(THE YOGI) TAKES AS HIS SUP PORT AND

FIRMLY RESOLVES THAT: ' I WILL SURELY DO

WHATEVER HE SAYS, ' BOTH THE SUN AND

MOON SET, FOLLOWING THE ASCENDING WAY,

INTO THE CHANNEL OF SUSUMNA, ONCE

ABANDONED THE SPHERE OF THE UNIVERSE.

 

2 5 . THEN IN THAT GREAT SKY, WHEN THE

SUN AND MOON DISSOLVE AWAY, THE DULL

MINDED (YOGI IS CAST DOWN) INTO A STATE

LIKE THAT OF DEEP SLEEP. THE AWAKENED

HOWEVER REMAINS LUCID.

 

2 6 . SEIZING THAT STRENGTH (BALA),

MANTRAS, ENDOWED WI TH THE POWER OF

OMNISCIENCE, PERFORM THEIR FUNCTIONS,

AS DO THE SENSES OF THE EMBODIED.

 

2 7 . IT IS THERE ALONE THAT THEY,

QUIESCENT AND STAINLESS, DISSOLVE AWAY

ALONG WITH THE ADEPT'S MIND AND SO

PARTAKE OF SIVA'S NATURE.

 

2 8 . EVERYTHING ARISES (OUT OF) THE

INDIVIDUAL SOUL, AND SO HE IS ALL THINGS

BECAUSE HE PERCEIVES HIS IDENTITY WITH

THE AWARENESS (HE HAS) OF THEM.

 

2 9 . THEREFORE THERE IS NO STATE IN THE

THOUGHTS OF WORDS OR (THEIR) MEANINGS

THAT IS NOT SIVA. IT IS THE ENJOYER ALONE

WHO ALWAYS AND EVERYWHERE ABIDES AS

THE OBJECT OF ENJOYMENT.

 

3 0 . OR, CONSTANTLY ATTENTIVE, AND

PERCEIVING THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE AS PLAY,

HE WHO HAS THI S AWARENESS (SAMVITTI ) IS

UNDOUBTEDLY LIBERATED IN THIS VERY LIFE.

 

31. THIS INDEED IS THE ARISING OF THAT

OBJECT OF MEDITATION IN THE MIND OF THE

MEDITATOR, NAMELY, THE ADEPT'S

REALIZATION OF HIS IDENTITY WITH IT BY

THE FORCE OF (HIS) INTENT.

 

3 2 . THIS ALONE IS THE ATTAINMENT OF THE

NECTAR OF IMMORTALITY, THI S INDEED IS TO

CATCH HOLD OF ONESELF, THI S IS THE

INITIATION OF NIRVANA WHICH BESTOWS

SIVA'S TRUE NATURE (SADBHAVA).

 

3 3 . REQUESTED BY THE WILL, THE

BENEFACTOR MAKES THE SUN AND MOON

RISE AND BESTOWS ON THE EMBODIED,

WHILE THEY WAKE, THE OBJECTS THAT ARE

IN (THEIR) HEART.

 

3 4 . SO ALSO IN THE DREAM STATE (SIVA) ,

RESIDING IN THE CENTER, MANIFESTS

WI THOUT EXCEPTION, ALWAYS AND MOST

VIVIDLY THE THINGS (HIS DEVOTEE) DESIRES

BECAUSE HE NEVER DESISTS FROM (HIS)

PRAYERFUL REQUEST.

 

3 5 . OTHERWI SE (AS HAP PENS NORMALLY) ,

THE GENERATION (OF IMAGES) WOULD BE

CONTINUOUS AND INDEPENDENT

THROUGHOUT THE WAKING AND DREAMING

STATES IN ACCORD WITH THEIR CHARACTER,

AS HAP PENS TO THE WORLDLY.

 

3 6 - 3 7 . JUST AS AN OBJECT WHICH IS NOT

SEEN CLEARLY AT FIRST, EVEN WHEN THE

MIND ATTENDS TO IT CAREFULLY, LATER

BECOMES FULLY EVIDENT WHEN OBSERVED

WI TH THE EFFORT EXERTED THROUGH ONE'S

OWN ( INHERENT) STRENGTH (SVABALA) ;

WHEN (THE YOGI ) LAYS HOLD OF THAT SAME

POWER IN THE SAME WAY, THEN WHATEVER

(HE PERCEIVES MANIFESTS TO HIM) QUICKLY

IN ACCORD WI TH ITS TRUE NATURE

(PARAMARTHENA), WHATEVER BE ITS FORM,

LOCUS, TIME OR STATE.

 

3 8 . LAYING HOLD OF THAT (STRENGTH) EVEN

A WEAK MAN ACHIEVES HIS GOAL, AND SO IN

THE SAME WAY A STARVING MAN CAN STILL

HIS HUNGER.

 

3 9 . WHEN THE BODY IS SUSTAINED BY THI S ,

ONE KNOWS EVERYTHING THAT HAP PENS

WI THIN IT. SIMILARLY (THIS SAME

OMNISCIENCE) WILL PREVAIL EVERYWHERE

(WHEN THE YOGI) FINDS HIS SUPPORT IN HIS

OWN NATURE.

 

4 0 . LASSITUDE RAVAGES THE BODY, AND

THIS ARISES FROM IGNORANCE. BUT IF IT IS

ELIMINATED BY AN EXPANSION OF

CONSCIOUSNESS (UNMESA), HOW CAN

( IGNORANCE) , DEPRIVED OF ITS CAUSE,

CONTINUE TO EXIST?

 

4 1 . THE EXPANSION OF CONSCIOUSNESS THAT

TAKES PLACE WHEN ONE IS ENGAGED IN A

SINGLE THOUGHT SHOULD BE KNOWN AS THE

SOURCE FROM WHENCE ANOTHER ARISES.

ONE SHOULD EXPERIENCE THAT FOR ONESELF.

 

4 2 . SHORTLY AFTER, FROM THAT (EXPANSION)

ARISES THE POINT (HINDU), FROM THAT

SOUND (NADA), FROM THAT FORM (RUPA), AND

FROM THAT TASTE (RASA) WHI CH DISTURB

THE EMBODIED SOUL.

 

4 3 . WHEN (THE YOGI 'S CONSCIOUSNESS)

PERVADES ALL THINGS BY (HIS) DESIRE TO

PERCEIVE, THEN WHY SPEAK MUCH? - HE

WILL EXPERIENCE IT FOR HIMSELF.

 

4 4 . AT ALL TIMES (THE YOGI ) SHOULD

REMAIN WELL AWAKE. HAVING WI TH (HIS)

PERCEPTION OBSERVED THE FIELD (OF

AWARENESS) , HE SHOULD DEPOSIT ALL IN ONE

PLACE, AND SO BE UNTROUBLED BY ANY

ALIEN (REALITY) .

 

4 5 . HE WHO IS DEPRIVED OF HIS POWER BY

THE FORCES OF OBSCURATION (KAIA), AND IS

A VICTIM OF THE POWERS ARISING FROM THE

MASS OF SOUNDS (SABDARASI), IS CALLED THE

FETTERED (PASU).

 

4 6 . OPERATING IN THE FIELD OF THE SUBTLE

ELEMENTS, THE ARISING OF MENTAL

REPRESENTATION (PRATYAYA) MARKS THE

DISAPPEARANCE OF THE FLAVOR OF THE

SUPREME NECTAR OF IMMORTALITY; DUE TO

THI S (MAN) FORFEITS HIS FREEDOM.

 

4 7 . MOREOVER THE POWERS (OF SPEECH) ARE

ALWAYS READY TO OBSCURE HIS NATURE AS

NO MENTAL REPRESENTATION CAN ARISE

UNPENETRATED BY SPEECH.

 

4 8 . THI S , SIVA'S POWER OF ACTION, RESIDING

IN THE FETTERED SOUL, BINDS IT, (BUT) WHEN

( ITS TRUE NATURE) IS UNDERSTOOD AND IT IS

SET ON ITS OWN PATH, (THIS POWER) BESTOWS

THE FRUITS OF YOGA (SIDDH1).*

 

4 9 - 5 0 . (THE SOUL) IS BOUND BY THE CITY OF

RIGHT (PURYASTAKA) THAT RESIDES IN THE

MIND, INTELLECT, AND EGO AND CONSISTS OF

THE ARISING OF THE (FIVE) SUBTLE ELEMENTS

(OF SENSORY PERCEPTION) . HE HELPLESSLY

SUFFERS WORLDLY EXPERIENCE (BHOGA)

WHICH CONSISTS OF THE ARISING OF MENTAL

REPRESENTATION BORN OF THAT (CITY OF

EIGHT) , AND SO ITS EXISTENCE SUBJECTS HIM

TO TRANSMIGRATION. THUS WE WILL

EXPLAIN HOW TO END THIS

TRANSMIGRATORY EXISTENCE.

 

51. BUT WHEN HE IS FIRMLY ESTABLISHED IN

ONE PLACE THAT IS THEN GENERATED AND

WITHDRAWN (BY HIM AT WILL) , HIS STATE

BECOMES THAT OF THE (UNIVERSAL) SUBJECT.

THUS HE BECOMES THE LORD OF THE WHEEL.

 

52. I REVERE THE WONDERFUL SPEECH OF

THE MASTER, WHOSE WORDS AND THEIR

MEANING ARE MARVELOUS; IT IS THE BOAT

THAT CARRIES ONE ACROSS THE FATHOMLESS

OCEAN OF DOUBT.

 

A nice step by step to the non dual.

 

Interesting... 

 

51. BUT WHEN HE IS FIRMLY ESTABLISHED IN

ONE PLACE THAT IS THEN GENERATED AND

WITHDRAWN (BY HIM AT WILL) , HIS STATE

BECOMES THAT OF THE (UNIVERSAL) SUBJECT.

THUS HE BECOMES THE LORD OF THE WHEEL.

 

If one is the universal subject and firmly established in that place, I see how you are now "One, with no second", but then how can one also be empty?

[doc benway]

The mind can play all kinds of word and thought games with it's essence, with non-duality - it's endless.

Until it allows itself to simply rest. 

 

It was fun for me for a while, now it gets tiresome pretty quickly.

 

When the knowing is there, no words are needed and none are adequate.

[Limahong]

  On 12/7/2017 at 12:59 PM, Jonesboy said:

Void is only half of the equation.

When one realizes void=form then they rest in wuwei if you ask me.

 

Hi Jonesboy,

 

I can accept your trend of thoughts comfortably. To me both 'void' and 'form' can come under the "two-worded/related 'dependents'".

 

However, I differentiate 'void' from The Void.

 

- LimA

[Jeff]

  On 12/7/2017 at 7:12 PM, steve said:

The mind can play all kinds of word and thought games with it's essence, with non-duality - it's endless.

Until it allows itself to simply rest. 

 

It was fun for me for a while, now it gets tiresome pretty quickly.

 

When the knowing is there, no words are needed and none are adequate.

 

If the mind is simply at rest, then how do you know it is not simply torpor?

 

Non-dual is vibrant, pristine and clear... Also, in my view, both pure and impure vision are part of the natural state.

[Jonesboy]

  On 12/7/2017 at 7:35 PM, Limahong said:

 

Hi Jonesboy,

 

I can accept your trend of thoughts comfortably. To me both 'void' and 'form' can come under the "two-worded/related 'dependents'".

 

However, I differentiate 'void' from The Void.

 

- LimA

 

How is void and form dependents?

 

Also what is void and Void to you?

[Jonesboy]

  On 12/7/2017 at 6:19 PM, Jeff said:

 

Interesting... 

 

51. BUT WHEN HE IS FIRMLY ESTABLISHED IN

ONE PLACE THAT IS THEN GENERATED AND

WITHDRAWN (BY HIM AT WILL) , HIS STATE

BECOMES THAT OF THE (UNIVERSAL) SUBJECT.

THUS HE BECOMES THE LORD OF THE WHEEL.

 

If one is the universal subject and firmly established in that place, I see how you are now "One, with no second", but then how can one also be empty?

 

I guess that would be the difference between KS and Buddhism.

[dwai]

  On 12/7/2017 at 5:43 PM, 3bob said:

if folks are going to be mixing up Buddhism and Hinduism in the Hindu forum then maybe this thread should be moved to the general forum instead...

I'm open to moving it to the general forum. But the OP was intended to specifically discuss Advaita Vedanta and the related straw men homicides it has to endure  

[dwai]

  On 12/7/2017 at 6:19 PM, Jeff said:

 

If one is the universal subject and firmly established in that place, I see how you are now "One, with no second", but then how can one also be empty?

Even the subjectivity appears from emptiness. Imho, Empty doesn't mean "nothing"...it means "not a thing". 

Edited December 7, 2017 by dwai

[Limahong]

  On 12/7/2017 at 7:44 PM, Jonesboy said:

How is void and form dependents?

Also what is void and Void to you?

 

Hi Jonesboy,

 

When I read TDB posts I do so in terms of trend of thoughts. I don't read in between words. Why? Words are limiting and restricting.

 

My "two-worded/related 'dependents'" is linked to 'both' & 'and'.

 

'The Void' and not 'Void'.

 

If I know 'The Void' in terms of words, I would surely shared experientially and contextually.

 

At the moment I only have a gut feel with 'The Void' and it is one of the reasons I joined TDB. 

 

So far I have come across a few great minds. Their posts are experientially liberating and nurturing; not limiting and restricting with words.

 

I avoid reading posts with lengthy citations.

 

Brevity is the soul of wit.

 

- LimA

[Jeff]

  On 12/7/2017 at 8:13 PM, dwai said:

Even the subjectivity appears from emptiness. Imho, Empty doesn't mean "nothing"...it means "not a thing". 

 

Yes, Emptiness “includes” both nirvana (universal subject) and samsara (dualistic). Or you could also say that the natural state has both pure and impure vision, as it is “beyond” the mind.

[dwai]

  On 12/7/2017 at 8:30 PM, Jeff said:

 

Yes, Emptiness “includes” both nirvana (universal subject) and samsara (dualistic). Or you could also say that the natural state has both pure and impure vision, as it is “beyond” the mind.

I agree 100%. All opposites have to exist in this as potentiality.

[Limahong]

  On 12/7/2017 at 8:39 PM, dwai said:

I agree 100%.

 

Hi dwai,

 

Nothing in life is 100%.

 

- LimA

[dwai]

  On 12/7/2017 at 8:43 PM, Limahong said:

 

Hi dwai,

 

Nothing in life is 100%.

 

- LimA

 

[Limahong]

  On 12/7/2017 at 8:43 PM, Limahong said:

Nothing in life is 100%.

 

Hi dwai,

 

My trend of thoughts per the above:

Nothing = 0

0 = 100%?

 

Good night.

 

- LimA

[Jonesboy]

  On 12/7/2017 at 8:23 PM, Limahong said:

 

Hi Jonesboy,

 

When I read TDB posts I do so in terms of trend of thoughts. I don't read in between words. Why? Words are limiting and restricting.

 

My "two-worded/related 'dependents'" is linked to 'both' & 'and'.

 

'The Void' and not 'Void'.

 

If I know 'The Void' in terms of words, I would surely shared experientially and contextually.

 

At the moment I only have a gut feel with 'The Void' and it is one of the reasons I joined TDB. 

 

So far I have come across a few great minds. Their posts are experientially liberating and nurturing; not limiting and restricting with words.

 

I avoid reading posts with lengthy citations.

 

Brevity is the soul of wit.

 

- LimA

 

Thank you