What is Non-duality?

[3bob]

since when does water and oil mix?  Since when has the historic Buddha not said (in effect) his teachings are the only way to liberation with all other ways leading to some level of "illusion", also since when has the term illusion not been beaten to death ten thousand times over by most Buddhists? 

Edited December 16, 2017 by 3bob

[Boy]

I’d like to add some pointers on enquiry if you don’t mind.

 

Another way of understanding “Abiding in the I” would be to think of it as “Returning to the I”. This returning (nota bene: I’m not at all suggesting dwai is wrong in any way) is indeed an intellectual process. You have to think yourself back to the only “thing” that is evident/beyond words - until the words give up. The best material I’ve come across that describes this process is from the Thai forest tradition, Dzogchen, Ramana Maharshi, and traditional vedanta. For me the Upanishads did it, but I also see supreme value in Ramana’s simple focus.

 

Come to think of it, perhaps dwai’s method is actually tailored to the very advanced practitioner? Or even the enlightened (=realised but not actualised)? ..Oh, you said it yourself, dwai! And with practice it will indeed only take a fraction of a second!

 

I will also suggest an alternative method. Given mumukshutva, there is still the problem that the disciple hasn’t got a clue of what the Self is, so perhaps all efforts to return to it or abide in it will be in vain? The language gives the problem away (“What's this ‘it’", the mind asks, and promptly starts looking for 'it')! So, perhaps Ramana’s method is preferable initially? Thus, just focus on the I!

 

Finally, and I hesitate to say it - it really is a cliché - but the problem really is ignorance. Enlightenment is for the jiva.

[dwai]

51 minutes ago, Boy said:

I’d like to add some pointers on enquiry if you don’t mind.

 

Another way of understanding “Abiding in the I” would be to think of it as “Returning to the I”. This returning (nota bene: I’m not at all suggesting dwai is wrong in any way) is indeed an intellectual process. You have to think yourself back to the only “thing” that is evident/beyond words - until the words give up.

This is also true. Either method can follow the other. I followed this first but by mechanically inquiring “who am I” until it “clicked”!

 

51 minutes ago, Boy said:

The best material I’ve come across that describes this process is from the Thai forest tradition, Dzogchen, Ramana Maharshi, and traditional vedanta. For me the Upanishads did it, but I also see supreme value in Ramana’s simple focus.

 

Come to think of it, perhaps dwai’s method is actually tailored to the very advanced practitioner? Or even the enlightened (=realised but not actualised)? ..Oh, you said it yourself, dwai! And with practice it will indeed only take a fraction of a second!

It’s not advanced at all but very simple. I’d left the part you suggested out as I suspect that would automatically follow.

 

[silent thunder]

When in my exhaustion, I released... everything

when inertia could no longer be maintained by force of seeking

when all desire vanished in utter collapse

 

clarity and awareness remained.

 

In this emptiness... reality shone. 

 

One Truth... ringing.

 

Undistinguished, gossamer, beyond coneptual mind, containing all and utterly empty, shining with the reality of One.

 

When I released all notions, even 'I'.  realization and liberation rang and awareness revealed what was always abiding under all the seeking and clinging... simultaneously, the clouds of hallucination and mind stuff evaporated like mist in the clear light.  

 

In total release... finally then realizing what was true all along, yet hidden by seeking and defining of this and that

here and there, self and other.

 

One Truth. 

Unity.

All in All.

Empty.

Spacious.

Abiding.

One.

 

When I released every notion, awareness remains.

 

 

[silent thunder]

Yesterday at work a painter expressing gratitude for a kindness offered, gave me this gift.

 A pocket printing of:

 

Hsin-Hsin Ming: Seng Ts'an

 

Words without words, ringing.

One moment is ten thousand years.

Seng sits with me at my table, smiling over coffee.

 

Deep abiding love and gratitude to all.

Thank You!

Thank You!

Thank You!

 

*deep bow of respect*

 

 

[dwai]

2 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Yesterday at work a painter expressing gratitude for a kindness offered, gave me this gift.

 A pocket printing of:

 

Hsin-Hsin Ming: Seng Ts'an

 

Words without words, ringing.

One moment is ten thousand years.

Seng sits with me at my table, smiling over coffee.

 

Deep abiding love and gratitude to all.

Thank You!

Thank You!

Thank You!

 

*deep bow of respect*

 

 

Thank you too for sharing such a powerful and direct exposition of the Way here.

_/|\_

[Boy]

18 hours ago, dwai said:

This is also true. Either method can follow the other. I followed this first but by mechanically inquiring “who am I” until it “clicked”!

 

It’s not advanced at all but very simple. I’d left the part you suggested out as I suspect that would automatically follow.

 

 

Sorry, I didn’t mean complex !

 

8 hours ago, silent thunder said:

When in my exhaustion

[...]

When I released every notion, awareness remains.

 

 

This is very beautiful! All of it! Thank you! ..and maybe the word exhaustion points to a third way?

[shortstuff]

You really have to experience it to understand it. Otherwise the words are just confusing.

 

There is also a trap when you first taste non duality. You realise that "I" is empty but you still relate to other people or a world. Ie you are nothingness in a world of others. This is false because both the others and the world don't exist either. There is only consciousness. This is known as "unity consciousness" or "God consciousness" where everything you feel or see or experience is part of your consciousness. If you are unawakened and you read that you would think "what a load of ......" but if you have experienced it you will know exactly what I mean.

 

Supposedly when you go beyond this too you come back to understand there is a subtle I as part of the consciousness but I am not going to comment on it because I have not yet experienced it.

 

As for buddhism, for purposes of enlightenment it is now irellevant really. Consciousness has changed, it wants people to awaken and enlighten so there are methods available that will push someone from pre-non duality into total enlightenment and the end of seeking in one lifetime as apposed to the 8 life cycles required to get there as a buddhist. It will still take a few decades for this to be accepted however.

However this brings its own problems because if you go the buddhist way you learn to be compassionate to others etc along the way... these new ways will bring a bit of chaos too. I for example am experiencing unity consciousness however I still have desires, negative thoughts (not many now), and the other things that you would have "evolved over" during the 8 life cycles. I just know these desires are false and choose to ignore them through witnessing.

 

Imagine a sociopath or someone who has something wrong with them, so their natural, egoic desire is to murder people...and that someone becomes Self Realized... there will no longer be anything stopping them. This has happened in the past
 

His answer "nobody" in this case reveals that he is self aware - he is aware he doesn't exist. He just didn't experience consciousness otherwise he would have realized that killing others is both pointless and hurts himself as he is them etc.

Edited December 19, 2017 by shortstuff

[Boy]

 everything about that post made me sad, shortstuff. You are clearly on the path but you've took a wrong turn. Retreat and regroup! Much love!