I’m making a stew. What are the best ingredients to add?

[Phoenix3]

I recently realised that cooking a stew is like a perfect Daoist dish for a beginner (at least for a Westerner who hasn’t got easy access to all your fancy herbs). You got a lot of vegetables, meat, and few if any grains. Also it is very warming, and so good for the body. However, as I plan to cook this on a regular basis, I want to know not only the best ingredients, but ingredients that are widely available and not too expensive. 

 

So, in my stew I shall add

 

1. hot water (of course)
2. bones (for the marrow, which will strengthen my Jing energy). From which animal do you think is best?
3. meat (again, from which animal do you think is best?)
4. Vegetable oil

 

Anything else? I look forward to any suggestions, like what vegetables, spices, etc to add. However, Lao Zi says not to make a dish appeal to the 5 tastes of the tongue, so a bland, tasteless dish is what I want. So if you add something sour, suggest also something bitter.

[thelerner]

For long slow cooking, a fattier cut like Chuck roast is better (cheaper too) then lean , which can overcook and get tough.  Course to get marrow you can add in some ox tail or bonier cuts.  I'll often let what's on sale guide my purchase, after all stew is a peasant dish, made with whats on hand. Carrots and potatoes are good, cause they're cheap, such root vegetables are good winter food.  Parsnips are nice for sweetness.  For sour, I don't do it, but a little orange peel might work.   

 

Not Daoish, but I'll use broth or lager beer for my stews to simmer in.  Sometimes adding something tomato-ey.  My secret ingredient tends to be Fish Sauce, which adds Umami, the 6th taste, not alot.  Keeping it simple with an herb or two is great. 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

I haven`t made this, but I like the Serious Eats website and this one looks good.  Some ideas for ingredients anyway.

 

http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/01/all-american-beef-stew-recipe.html

 

 

[Taomeow]

One of my family recipes for the stew (just the basic one, there's many versions):

 

1. Make bone broth in advance (if you make a large batch, you can freeze what you're not using for later), using marrow bones and adding, an hour before done, a large onion, criss-cross cut to the center but not all the way, with skin on (cleaned at the ends); a large carrot, also cut lengthwise but not all the way; a generous amount of celery, parsley, and a parsnip if you have it on hand, or a piece of celery root; a couple of bay leaves and some crushed (better than ground) peppercorns.  Once ready, strain, discard everything that's been cooking in it (except for the bone marrow, which it is a good idea to retrieve and add to the stew, or eat on the spot with some salt, as I usually do) and have the broth handy.

 

2. Wash meat very thoroughly (any meat you have on hand will work), cut it into chunks, not too small, not too large.  Sautee some onions in a skillet, add the meat, stir-fry them together for a few minutes, transfer everything to a pot.  Splash the skillet with your broth and bring to a boil to pick up all the caramelized juices, add to the pot.

 

3. Pour enough broth and then some over your meat to cover it, bring to a boil, cook on low for some 30 minutes.

 

4. On top of it all, add cut vegetables -- the ones that work well are potatoes, sweet peppers, and my favorite addition to this stew -- eggplant.  Anything else vegetable that you like, you can use too.  Cover, stew it all together till the toughest of your vegetables are soft. 

 

5. The only way to screw this up (provided you don't burn what you're preparing in the skillet) is by oversalting it, so for a beginner I would suggest a safe strategy, since I never know any proportions (an experienced cook just "knows" and uses no recipes, but that comes with, well, experience).  Ten minutes before you're going to finish cooking, add some salt, a very conservative amount on the not-enough side, to the pot, stir it all to intermix, and then, ten minutes later, taste a sample of the stew.  If you find it undersalted, repeat, with a small amount.  If you still managed to oversalt it, that's when your hot water comes in, you can save the pot by adding that and cooking for a couple minutes, but if you don't need to use it, don't, the savory stew has none.

 

This whole thing can also be simplified and streamlined of course, any ingredients can be omitted safely and many can be added safely.  Good luck!  

 

By the way, don't use "vegetable oil."  Either use coconut oil in this recipe (to sautee your onions and meat) or ghee or a mix of both (my favorite).  

 

Good luck!

[C T]

I like to add a tablespoon of beef fat (aka tallow) to pan-fry red-meats, ie. after dusting them lightly with some flour or corn starch prior to adding said meats into the slow cooker. Slow cooking is great for stews. Get one going at night before bed, and by lunch time a hearty, earthy, nutritious powerhouse of steaming goodness will be readied. 

[thelerner]

I love my slow cooker, but the Instant Pot (which can cook slow) is a smart pressure cooker and makes stews with fork tender meat and flavorful veggies in about 30 minutes plus saute and depressurizing time.   Great for soups too.  Not that pressure cooking is anything new, but the Instant Pot and its ilk takes out much of the work and worry.  

 

The fast cooking means individual flavors keep there integrity better then a slow cookers, a good thing.  Great for soups and beans too. 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2017 by thelerner

[Aetherous]

Dang gui (angelica root)

[Taomeow]

I am not a fan of slow cookers, but my overall leanings are taoist so it's no surprise -- my culinary creations are all about timing, and different ingredients ask for different preparation times in order to reveal their best flavor and best texture.  (So, CT, the "thank you" was for the addition of the tallow.  Yes to that. )  I used to have one, it did save time and effort, but somehow everything cooked in it wound up tasting the same.   

 

And pressure cookers I'm actually afraid of, after one attacked me many moons ago with rapid fire of pressurized oatmeal.  The valves got clogged, the pressure rose way above what it's meant to be, then the valves got unclogged and started spinning, shooting streams of above-boiling-point-hot oatmeal in a perfect circle that, unfortunately, covered not only all the kitchen but, through the open door, was hitting the living-room as well.  I had to approach the cooker crawling on my belly from the living-room to the kitchen, under tight streams of fiery oatmeal hissing with extreme hostility, in order to turn the damn thing off, but this did nothing for another twenty minutes or so, whereupon the pressure finally subsided.  I spent the whole night washing oatmeal off the walls and furniture.  I never owned a pressure cooker ever again, and I don't care how advanced they have become since.  Better safe than sorry.  Oh, and I don't eat oatmeal anymore.  

  

[Phoenix3]

It takes so long to make just the bone broth, i’m thinking of just using a slow cooker. I’ll get all the bones (lamb or beef probably), put them in a slow cooker with some meat (lightly cooked in the pan first of course) and vegetables with a big lump of coconut oil (i need to put on some fat!).

 

Also a few tablespoons of lemon juice or vinegar to release some minerals from the bones, which will help make the vegetables less bitter too.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Phoenix3

[Taomeow]

12 hours ago, Phoenix3 said:

It takes so long to make just the bone broth, i’m thinking of just using a slow cooker. I’ll get all the bones (lamb or beef probably), put them in a slow cooker with some meat (lightly cooked in the pan first of course) and vegetables with a big lump of coconut oil (i need to put on some fat!).

 

Also a few tablespoons of lemon juice or vinegar to release some minerals from the bones, which will help make the vegetables less bitter too.

 

Bones, meat and vegetables cooked together in a slow cooker will yield meat-vegetable porridge with bones in it.  If that's what you're after, you won't be disappointed.  But for a stew, you still want to make the broth first, separately.  (Or skip it altogether and just use water.)  A bone broth takes at least eight times longer than a stew, regardless of whether you use a slow cooker or stovetop.  So if you combine both steps into one, you are shooting either for a bone broth eight times undercooked, or a stew eight times overcooked, depending on your preference.  Just sayin'.  

 

 

[Phoenix3]

3 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Bones, meat and vegetables cooked together in a slow cooker will yield meat-vegetable porridge with bones in it.  If that's what you're after, you won't be disappointed.  But for a stew, you still want to make the broth first, separately.  (Or skip it altogether and just use water.)  A bone broth takes at least eight times longer than a stew, regardless of whether you use a slow cooker or stovetop.  So if you combine both steps into one, you are shooting either for a bone broth eight times undercooked, or a stew eight times overcooked, depending on your preference.  Just sayin'.  

 

 

 

I found a recipe which uses the same ingredients as you here: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/26/bone-broth-chicken-soup-recipe

 

But it says that beef bones require 24 hours to cook in a broth! That seems a little too much, couldn’t 20 or 18 hours be ok? So in the morning before, I put the beef bones into the slow cooker with some water and all the other things, the next morning it is ready, and then I add the vegetables and meat, correct?

[Seatle185]

Actually 24 hours is the very least amount. When cooking bone broth i will go up to 48 hours. You can do it less i guess, but that would be wasting some of the valuable nutrients you could extract. It takes a long time to break down the bones unfortunately. 

 

If you cant wait, you can try to find some broth at a farmers market or somewhere. Most store bought broth is really bad and unhealthy but i have bought good broth from local farmers that cook it right.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Seatle185

[C T]

 

[Phoenix3]

43 minutes ago, Seatle185 said:

Actually 24 hours is the very least amount. When cooking bone broth i will go up to 48 hours. You can do it less i guess, but that would be wasting some of the valuable nutrients you could extract. It takes a long time to break down the bones unfortunately. 

 

If you cant wait, you can try to find some broth at a farmers market or somewhere. Most store bought broth is really bad and unhealthy but i have bought good broth from local farmers that cook it right.

 

But I want it to be a daily meal, for lunch or in the evening This is becoming too troublesome.

 

How long does it stay fresh? If I make it just twice a week I suppose it would be ok.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Phoenix3

[Seatle185]

I have soup every day and almost every day it includes bone broth. Its actually not that hard once you figure the timing out. Bone broth can be cooking in the back ground in a crockpot with very little effort required to make. (And its cheap) It just takes time. When its finished you will have enough for a while, just freeze some and it will last a very long time. In the fridge it will last at least a week.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Seatle185

[Phoenix3]

4 minutes ago, Seatle185 said:

I have soup every day and almost every day it includes bone broth. Its actually not that hard once you figure the timing out. Bone broth can be cooking in the back ground in a crockpot with very little effort required to make. It just takes time. When its finished you will have enough for a while, just freeze some and it will last a very long time. In the fridge it will last at least a week.

 

Do you cook the meat with the bones? In the video above, it shows the guy cooking the meat with the bones, but I’m concerned cooking meat for two whole days or a bit less will leave very mushy, overcooked meat.

[Seatle185]

Yeah i cook with some meat on it, when your cooking broth the idea is to strain everything out from the liquid at the end because all the nutrients have transfered from the bones (and meat) into the liquid so while you could still eat the meat most of the times you dispose of it with the bones

[Taomeow]

2 hours ago, Phoenix3 said:

 

I found a recipe which uses the same ingredients as you here: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/26/bone-broth-chicken-soup-recipe

 

But it says that beef bones require 24 hours to cook in a broth! That seems a little too much, couldn’t 20 or 18 hours be ok? So in the morning before, I put the beef bones into the slow cooker with some water and all the other things, the next morning it is ready, and then I add the vegetables and meat, correct?

 

Kudos for investigate further!  People who jump to conclusions seldom eat well!

 

So, as I mentioned in my original recipe, there's many ways to modify it, streamline, take shortcuts.  Later I specified which one shortcut not to take, but this does not invalidate the earlier premise -- shortcuts can be taken.

 

  One major shortcut is the length of time of preparing bone broth.  Yes, there's the ideal loooong preparation time, but how much better is 48 hours than 8 hours?  Maybe 15% better.  We're dealing with the Law of Diminishing Returns here.  Eight hours is plenty.  You'll get good stuff.  Well, maybe you won't extract each and every mineral you could if you cooked for 24 or 48 hours, but we're gourmets here, not gluttons, we don't need to get greedy.  24+ hours -- that's when the tribe is at the risk of not getting enough nourishment during a harsh winter, or when the broth is made commercially and greed is a factor.  For regular home cooking -- well, I've made excellent bone broths in 4 hours too.

 

So, no need to overcomplicate a simple task toward perfection when perfection is only very slightly better than "imperfect but really, really good."  However you arrange your timing, between 4 and 8 hours (shooting for 8 if you can, not sweating it if you can't) will do the job.  And if it's a longer, involved affair, then I'd make a large batch and freeze it to have on hand for future needs.  

[Phoenix3]

Ok, so here is my mealplan. Please bear in mind i’m trying to gain weight (fat and muscle). I have a very high metabolism.

 

7am: breakfast in the morning is egg and tomato with rice. I will use 3 eggs and 4 tomatoes (though I always find that I can’t get much juice out of the tomatoes, the dish is always a bit dry). I want to make it just like the authentic Chinese way, but it never turns out good.

 

9am: Fruit and vegetable smoothie with lots of yogurt (cooling and a good source of fat and protein), honey (heating) and coconut oil for the fat.

 

10am: go and buy some fresh ingredients and bones

 

Midday: bone broth stew, following taomeow’s recipe above  chicken, beef or lamb, depending on what’s available.

 

1pm: get bones and other ingredients and cook for 22 hours until the next day

 

———

 

I’ll try to keep it as so, because I know i’m not supposed to eat after midday, but I may have a light dinner if I feel hungry while at the beginning, while trying to gain weight.

Later on, when I’ve gained enough weight, I will cut out grains (rice) and meals after midday.

 

by the way:

 

On 26/11/2017 at 9:16 PM, Taomeow said:

an hour before done, a large onion, criss-cross cut to the center but not all the way, with skin on (cleaned at the ends); a large carrot, also cut lengthwise but not all the way; a generous amount of celery, parsley, and a parsnip if you have it on hand, or a piece of celery root; a couple of bay leaves and some crushed (better than ground) peppercorns.  Once ready, strain, discard everything that's been cooking in it (except for the bone marrow, which it is a good idea to retrieve and add to the stew, or eat on the spot with some salt, as I usually do) and have the broth handy.

 

All the videos I watched on youtube say you cook the vegetables with the bones for the whole 24-48 hours, but you say only an hour before it’s done. Is there a reason? I’d imagine with the former, you’ll receive more nutrients. Both instances, one is supposed to discard the solids, so may as well let them simmer in there for as long as possible, right?

 

And I thought bone marrow was something that dissolved into the broth? I didn’t know it remained a solid, or something that could be picked out the soup. I’m obviously no expert though.

 

On 26/11/2017 at 9:16 PM, Taomeow said:

On top of it all, add cut vegetables -- the ones that work well are potatoes

 

I thought potatoes, like grains, are not permitted in a Daoist diet? Too starchy, like the grains? I remember reading a lot of your posts about this, which is why I don’t include nuts, grains, etc.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Phoenix3

[Joolian]

15 hours ago, Phoenix3 said:

7am: breakfast in the morning is egg and tomato with rice. I will use 3 eggs and 4 tomatoes (though I always find that I can’t get much juice out of the tomatoes, the dish is always a bit dry). I want to make it just like the authentic Chinese way, but it never turns out good.

 

This just caught my eye - didn't know that dish/recipe before and googled it. Will definitely try it out.

Not to derail this thread but just wanted to say that I have found a good cooking video of it.

 

 

The guy in this video sliced the tomatoes in a special way not to lose too much tomato fluids...

 

Thought I leave it here. Also I got very much inspired to once again try to make bone broth and then stew

[C T]

In some Asian households, in making beef broth it is quite the norm to add crushed ginger root, white peppercorns, (real) cinnamon sticks and star anise into the mix. 

 

My personal preference is close to whats illustrated in this clip (method begins at 1.05)

 

 

 

[Taomeow]

17 hours ago, Phoenix3 said:

way:

 

 

All the videos I watched on youtube say you cook the vegetables with the bones for the whole 24-48 hours, but you say only an hour before it’s done. Is there a reason? I’d imagine with the former, you’ll receive more nutrients. Both instances, one is supposed to discard the solids, so may as well let them simmer in there for as long as possible, right?

 

 

 

You may or may not get more nutrients.  A few get enhanced and concentrated with prolonged thermal exposures but some (many) degrade from longer cooking.  Taste and flavor will reveal this degradation to an experienced, discerning palate.  If you cook onions, carrots, parsley etc. longer than an hour, the flavor they are supposed to impart will start evaporating, and in several hours much of it (if not all) will be completely lost.  Another thing you may consider: the overall optimal times for herbal decoctions, known to herbalists regardless of whether they're making a medicinal or a culinary brew (traditionally they don't even differ in many cases) are such and such for dried/fresh material, roots/twigs, coarse leaves/soft stalks, tender leaves/flowers, and all of it applies here.  An hour is actually a compromise and a shortcut -- ideally, you'd add parsnip and celery root an hour before the broth is done, the onion and carrot, forty minutes, parsley, ten minutes, bay leaf, three minutes.  For some recipes I also use crushed garlic, this is added 15 seconds before the broth is done.

 

The rest of your Qs I'll try to answer later.  You're doing fine investigating the "whys" and "wherefores," but don't be surprised if you come across conflicting or dissenting info on  youtube.  People on youtube may have learned from other people on youtube.  I learned from a whole family lineage of creative, imaginative, fundamentally traditional cooking, and then from every tradition in the world I could incorporate without spending too much time in the kitchen (don't want to, so anything too complicated, time-consuming, or mediocre taste-wise and/or nutrition-wise, I won't bother making.   )   

Edited November 28, 2017 by Taomeow

[Gerard]

Meat? Try and see the one that is best for your constitution:

 

http://www.shen-nong.com/eng/lifestyles/food_body_constitutions.html#033

 

&

 

http://www.shen-nong.com/eng/lifestyles/food_diet_advice_body_constitutions.html#

 

Universal Tao provides more specific details:

 

https://www.universal-tao.com/5elements/5ElementsCDmenu.html

 

Some recipes you may try:

 

https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/collection/healthy-casserole-stew

 

Happy meal!

 

 

 

[Pavel Karavaev]

On 24.11.2017 at 7:39 AM, Phoenix3 said:

So, in my stew I shall add

 

1. hot water (of course)
2. bones (for the marrow, which will strengthen my Jing energy). From which animal do you think is best?
3. meat (again, from which animal do you think is best?)
4. Vegetable oil

 

Anything else? I look forward to any suggestions, like what vegetables, spices, etc to add. However, Lao Zi says not to make a dish appeal to the 5 tastes of the tongue, so a bland, tasteless dish is what I want. So if you add something sour, suggest also something bitter.

 

The use of bones is very good for preparing stew, so then the dish will turn out strong. In winter time it is best to use pork or lamb meat, as they have a good warming effect.
In summer, beef is better.
I like Chinese dishes, these recipes are simple enough In the case of meat quenching, and they can be found on the Internet. But usually they use spices. Spices are preferably used since they allow the body to better digest chi from food.

[KuroShiro]

On 11/27/2017 at 3:46 AM, Taomeow said:

And pressure cookers I'm actually afraid of, after one attacked me many moons ago with rapid fire of pressurized oatmeal. 

 

You don't pressure cook oatmeal.

 

 

On 11/27/2017 at 5:29 AM, Phoenix3 said:

Also a few tablespoons of lemon juice or vinegar to release some minerals from the bones

 

Yes.

 

On 11/27/2017 at 5:39 PM, Taomeow said:

But for a stew, you still want to make the broth first, separately. 

 

Yes.

 

On 11/27/2017 at 9:31 PM, Phoenix3 said:

But it says that beef bones require 24 hours to cook in a broth! That seems a little too much, couldn’t 20 or 18 hours be ok?

 

On 11/27/2017 at 9:43 PM, Seatle185 said:

Actually 24 hours is the very least amount. When cooking bone broth i will go up to 48 hours. You can do it less i guess, but that would be wasting some of the valuable nutrients you could extract. It takes a long time to break down the bones unfortunately. 

 

I imagine your gas/electricity bill

 

 

On 11/27/2017 at 10:18 PM, Phoenix3 said:

But I want it to be a daily meal, for lunch or in the evening This is becoming too troublesome.

 

On 11/28/2017 at 0:34 AM, Taomeow said:

One major shortcut is the length of time of preparing bone broth.  Yes, there's the ideal loooong preparation time, but how much better is 48 hours than 8 hours?  Maybe 15% better.  We're dealing with the Law of Diminishing Returns here.  Eight hours is plenty.  You'll get good stuff.  Well, maybe you won't extract each and every mineral you could if you cooked for 24 or 48 hours, but we're gourmets here, not gluttons, we don't need to get greedy.  24+ hours -- that's when the tribe is at the risk of not getting enough nourishment during a harsh winter, or when the broth is made commercially and greed is a factor.  For regular home cooking -- well, I've made excellent bone broths in 4 hours too.

 

 

The easiest way, for me, to make bone broth at home is to use a pressure cooker.

Phoenix3, you can get a high quality pressure cooker (Swiss or German) from how much you'll save on gas/electricity.

 

You can use bones with marrow and cartilage (if possible organic grass fed), add (spring) water to cover them plus a bit more (some will evaporate). Bring to a boil, skim off the foam that rises to the top. When the foam stops appearing/almost nonexistent pour tablespoons apple cider vinegar and check if you need to add more water. Close the lid of the pressure cooker and put the timer for around 90 min. Voilà, super easy.

Repeat this process again (minus skimming of the foam) as many times you wish. You can then freeze the bones for future use or discard them.

 

Bone broth is very healthy, you can drink it with some salt or use it as stock for recipes.