The Taoist and Chopsticks

[Taomeow]

2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

I`d use the chopsticks for my rice simply because it`s still enough of a novelty to me to be fun.  Some of my friends prefer western utensils which is odd, but I don`t begrudge them their choice.

 

You're talking Mexico, right?  I had the cultural embarrassment of a lifetime there once...  Went to a Japanese restaurant in Tijuana with an American friend and his local one.  The local was an MD, well-educated, bright, funny, good-looking, if he wasn't married I'd certainly take a second look and a third one...  until that Japanese dinner.  The waitress gave us chopsticks, me and the American friend started eating, the Mexican guy started stabbing his food with chopsticks, this way and that, and getting more and more annoyed, since his efforts yielded nothing to eat.  I was about to show him how to handle chopsticks (have done it many times, my greatest victory was a traffic cop I taught to use chopsticks who, once he got it, got so excited that he asked for another pair to take home and practice), but before I had a chance, he threw them in disgust and yelled at the top of his voice, "Can we get some normal human utensils here?!!" 

The Japanese waitress meekly fetched three forks and knives...  I literally figuratively felt like using one of the knives to cut his tongue out.         

[liminal_luke]

Wow, that`s quite a story.  The friends I referenced who prefer forks and spoons are gringos, but they don`t make a fuss about it and servers always seem happy to bring them whatever.  I generally stay clear of non-Mexican food here (but go crazy for anything asian during trips to the states).  Mexicans do love their sushi, though.

[dawei]

True test is eating sushi with chopsticks...  change to wide gap method.

 

Truth be told, my chopstick method is closer to Korea style. 

[Taomeow]

38 minutes ago, dawei said:

True test is eating sushi with chopsticks...  change to wide gap method.

 

 

The ultimate test is bypass the tongs for sukiyaki and use chopsticks all the way -- here's a friend of mine operating them with such impeccability that a halo appears around his head:  

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Taomeow

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

I recall learning in my language classes that the spoon was used not for soups at least in Japan historically, but for doctors only and in medical practice, and it was all chopsticks before eventually becoming the norm at the dining table. If anyone can confirm, was this the same in China as well before (spoons used not for dining at the table but primarily by doctors historically long ago)? 

 

People certainly look at my friends and I funny when we eat using chopsticks and rice, I do say, but those people are mostly those who have the inability to use chopsticks at all or ask why my Southeast Asian friends use a spoon and fork instead of fork and knife, or just use their hands. 

 

Can't confirm this about China but it is likely -- my books on Chinese culinary arts and medicinal foods (where many recipes are ancient) always say something like, "cook this and that, discard this, eat that, and drink the soup," not "eat the soup."  So I'm guessing they fished out the solid parts with chopsticks (or with fingers, who knows) and the liquid was just chugged straight from the bowl. 

 

Native Americans had large ladles for soup, the size of a portion, sometimes made out of the heads of cattle (which gives you an idea of the size), and strictly individual.  They used this ladle to get the whole individual portion from the communal pot, dipping it once for the purpose.  They were very amused when first introduced to Western spoons, thinking they are used in a similar fashion but are way too small -- "won't you go hungry if you take so little?"  Little did they know about the newcomers' appetite...             

Edited November 30, 2017 by Taomeow

[dawei]

On 11/29/2017 at 10:27 PM, Earl Grey said:

If anyone can confirm, was this the same in China as well before (spoons used not for dining at the table but primarily by doctors historically long ago)? 

On 11/29/2017 at 11:46 PM, Taomeow said:

 

Can't confirm this about China but it is likely -- my books on Chinese culinary arts and medicinal foods (where many recipes are ancient) always say something like, "cook this and that, discard this, eat that, and drink the soup," not "eat the soup." 

 

No real historical research on it but my experience in having traveled around China, and even to small villages, etc... spoons are just not needed, chopsticks are all you need. The scarcity of owning things is appallingly evident, except for restaurants... but for soup, you still 'drink' it, according to custom. 

[Pavel Karavaev]

I'm not a Taoist, either, but I use chopsticks.

It is much more convenient than forks, in many cases. It is convenient to take pickled vegetables and fruits from cans, such as olives, tomatoes and others. It is also convenient to use chopsticks when preparing food. For example, I constantly use them when breading meat in starch, and it turns out much better than when you do it with your hands.

 

We can eat slower with using chopsticks, it's important for digestion and also to not miss the moment when you're already full.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Pavel Karavaev

[thelerner]

I like chopsticks.  Tending to put meat and veggies on the smaller rice bowl and 'shovel' or picking up pieces individually.  Must admit when I'm closer to the bottom I'll give up and just fork it. 

 

Don't like spoons for soup.  When with friends and family I'll usually pick up the bowl of soup and slurp but for formalities sake I'll pick it straight up, then it at 90 degrees to my mouth; setting it down the same way.   Adds a little decorum to my uncouthness. 

[Pavel Karavaev]

All in all, I much like to use chopsticks ythan a fork and spoon. There is a feeling of some kind of inner comfort with using chopsticks, however it is difficult for me to describe and analyze it. Food intake becomes more thoughtful and creatively.

Besides, according to my feelings  wood is more pleasant to hold in hands than metal.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Pavel Karavaev

[Rara]

On 30/11/2017 at 4:46 AM, Taomeow said:

 

Can't confirm this about China but it is likely -- my books on Chinese culinary arts and medicinal foods (where many recipes are ancient) always say something like, "cook this and that, discard this, eat that, and drink the soup," not "eat the soup."  So I'm guessing they fished out the solid parts with chopsticks (or with fingers, who knows) and the liquid was just chugged straight from the bowl.      

 

Thanks for this - somehow I missed this part the other month.

 

It's the way I eat soup around close friends/those less judgemental. Seems like the actual path of least resistence

 

Not in front of my mum though. I'd never hear the last of it.

[C T]

The historical emperors, dowagers and members of the royal households of China had chopsticks made from jade for the purpose of detecting poison, and would also carry jade needles which they insert into liquids prior to consumption. 

[Fa Xin]

On 12/28/2017 at 1:08 AM, Pavel Karavaev said:

All in all, I much like to use chopsticks ythan a fork and spoon. There is a feeling of some kind of inner comfort with using chopsticks, however it is difficult for me to describe and analyze it. Food intake becomes more thoughtful and creatively.

Besides, according to my feelings  wood is more pleasant to hold in hands than metal.

I dated a Chinese girl for a while, and her family had metal chopsticks. I embarrassed myself more than a few times trying to use them. The wooden ones are much easier!

[Joolian]

On 30.11.2017 at 2:13 AM, Taomeow said:

You don't have to imagine putting wood on a stove.  It's called a bamboo steamer.   Well, I'm not that strict with my utensils, I use good quality enameled pots that are reputed to leak nothing into what's cooking (even stainless steel "enriches" your food with cadmium and the like), or cast iron skillets which actually add iron but nothing else.  Ideally though it would be earthenware all the way, but nothing/nobody is perfect.  Even Taomeow.  

 

@Taomeow As I haven't researched that before and still use stainless-steel pots most of the time, could you please give an example pot and/or pan which you use, that are reputed to leak nothing?

 

Would it be such a dutch-oven pot?

https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-EC6D43-Enameled-6-Quart-Island/dp/B000N501BK

 

Thank you and greetings

[Pavel Karavaev]

15 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

I dated a Chinese girl for a while, and her family had metal chopsticks. I embarrassed myself more than a few times trying to use them. The wooden ones are much easier!

 

Yes, it really seems inconvenient. I imagine that maybe it makes sense to use chopsticks made from the noble metal, for example silver or gold. But it looks more like get away from simplicity in the side of excess.

[Taomeow]

9 hours ago, Joolian said:

 

@Taomeow As I haven't researched that before and still use stainless-steel pots most of the time, could you please give an example pot and/or pan which you use, that are reputed to leak nothing?

 

Would it be such a dutch-oven pot?

https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-EC6D43-Enameled-6-Quart-Island/dp/B000N501BK

 

Thank you and greetings

 

Greetings to you too!  

 

Stainless steel is not "horrible," far as I know, just not ideal.  The dutch-oven pot is indeed better.  Mine are of this kind -- strong chip-resistant enamel over cast iron.  I bought a vintage German set a few years ago, and was told "they don't make them like that anymore," but I haven't checked, maybe they do.  But that's the general idea -- heavy, with high quality enamel, the best you can find, and if you don't bang them around, it's a forever purchase, nothing happens to these pots (unlike cheap/thin enameled ones where the enamel chips if you sneeze around that pot.)   Heavy pots are superior for prolonged cooking, everything tastes better, possibly due to the even distribution of heat, and the fact that you can keep the temperature lower.  For something like a boiled egg, I have a small stainless steel pot.   

 

I also have a heavy duty Chinese stoneware clay pot, and another one for herbs.   

[Joolian]

Thank you very much

I will have a look into these kind of pots. 

[Pavel Karavaev]

Hallo all!

 

Can anyone advise an interesting discussion on the topic of Chinese cuisine in this forum?

 

 

Spoiler

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Pavel Karavaev