The no-enlightenment thread

[Gerard]

It's absurd to read claims of this nature especially in this day and age, particularly coming from lay practitioners.

 

 

 

 

 

Gautama Buddha was officially the first, he almost died in the quest and that was 2,500 years ago. Imagine today, one probably has to nearly die close to a 1,000 times to reach that mental state.

 

Less talk about enlightenment and more about hard work, healing practices, and being a good and moral person.

 

No tree, it is said, can grow to heaven unless its roots reach down to hell (Carl Jung)

 

And deep to hell you got to go, brother, very, very deep.

 

"If you were a monk that wanted to achieve enlightenment and be revered as a “living Buddha,” self-mummification was your brutal option. Monks on this spiritual path would starve themselves for almost a decade, subsisting on water, seeds and nuts. Then, they’d be sealed inside the statue and ingest roots, pine bark and a toxic, tree sap-based tea for another 1,000 days — eating and breathing through a small tube. Eventually death would come, and monks mummified in this manner were said to have reached enlightenment."

 

X-Rays of Buddhist Statue Reveal Mummified Monk

 

And these new age bunch thought it is easy to reach enlightenment, yes I would dare to say:

 

1. Enlightenment of the EGO

2. DELUSION

 

Happy and hard work practice.

 

 

 

[Mudfoot]

Doesn’t sound like a practice endorsed by the Buddha. 

[Cheshire Cat]

People let go of the superstition of God... only to embrace the superstition of enlightenment.

 

 

 

 

[Jetsun]

The belief that it is hard work and the belief that it is difficult to achieve may just be two more beliefs which need to be let go of on the way to Enlightenment ☺️

[allinone]

There is no point instigate someone random who isn't even interested to sit, its very useless and time waste to sit because this age is not best suitable for yoga, jhana.

 

dark age body is not the body type what was age before. Certain body type doesn't feel the things other type would feel. So it is useless to tell things to someone who is kali yuga - For them they need only to wish to become enlightened, their thoughts will manifest thats what they think that their thoughts make things happen//that's why a kali yuga person can get enlightened by wishing to become enlightened because they cling to thoughts so heavy that they think that their thought manifest reality.

 

with ascetics practice you get the body you need pictorially. Other words you can be fat, but still be the correct breed. Like you need be man to become enlightened, that does not mean taht female body means one is female and vice versa.

Edited November 29, 2017 by allinone

[bax44]

The first post was so full of dogma that it was tough to even get through. But then @allinone came along and just.. well idk but he did what he always does and types nonsense, which kind of fits in this thread I suppose.

[Maddie]

The Buddha's first sermon was the middle way, to neither torture one's self nor totally indulge in sensual pleasures as the path to enlightenment. 

[bax44]

You can't juxtapose things from 3000 years ago that were said and take them as literal. The world was totally different. To even find someone to teach you meditation would require arduous journeys and no guarantee of even finding anyone. People had no toilets and lived short lives.

(got this bit from shinzen young)

 

taking all that into account awakening or enlightenment was probably thought of as virtually impossible and for good reason. Today the average 12 year old has more comfort and knowledge at their fingertips than the kings of that time. Taking the words said by masters back then and pretending they are literal truth without looking deeper(at least when it comes to the subject of this thread) is very shortsighted and somewhat ignorant.

Edited November 29, 2017 by bax44

[Lost in Translation]

If you tell me you know something that can be neither proven nor disproven, I will trust you.

 

If I give you my trust and you beat me over the head with it, I will stop trusting you.

 

Welcome to the Internet.

[rainbowvein]

14 hours ago, Gerard said:

Gautama Buddha was officially the first, he almost died in the quest and that was 2,500 years ago.

 

The first officially enlightened? 

 

Howsabout Nuwa and Fuxi?  

 

 

[ljazztrumpet]

The few truly great spiritual healers, that were able to effect mass physical and emotional healings, never made claims of enlightenment. In fact they had to work really hard to get people to look away from them and not elevate them in any way. They had to teach, and demonstrate, hardcore humility. And, also, work extremely hard to try and convince people that they had the power within themselves to do what they were doing. Most people constantly wanted to elevate them and rely on them for help, all the time they always insist that the power is within us.. The healings are demonstrations to show us what is possible and so there is actual proof that there is something real going on and not just intellectual b.s. that they are spouting. Of course no one today just spouts intellectual b.s. without backing it up with healings and the like

 

Hey, but at least on this group I found a place where a lot of people actually get it and I can speak freely about these things without worrying I'm going to offend anyone..or most anyone

Edited November 29, 2017 by ljazztrumpet
Notify me of replies..still getting the hang of this!

[ljazztrumpet]

Wait - do have to write another post and then click the notify switch? Goddamnit! If only I were enlightened I could just do this spiritually/mentally with my awesome enlightenment powers!!

[C T]

I have reservations that spiritual healing and enlightenment are necessarily conjoined. 

I know loads of spiritual healers in Asia who couldn't care less about enlightenment, 

and humility is not exactly on their 'to do list' either 

[ljazztrumpet]

1 minute ago, C T said:

I have reservations that spiritual healing and enlightenment are necessarily conjoined. 

I know loads of spiritual healers in Asia who couldn't care less about enlightenment, 

and humility is not exactly on their 'to do list' either 

I don't know C T. Are they truly spiritual healers? I mean we have energy healers, psychic surgeons, mental healers, qigong healers, etc.. And we have many people claiming to be spiritual healers when, in reality, they aren't really powerful at all. True, they may have good intentions, but they still need to raise their love consciousness, imo, to be more effective as a spiritual healer.

[C T]

5 minutes ago, ljazztrumpet said:

I don't know C T. Are they truly spiritual healers? I mean we have energy healers, psychic surgeons, mental healers, qigong healers, etc.. And we have many people claiming to be spiritual healers when, in reality, they aren't really powerful at all. True, they may have good intentions, but they still need to raise their love consciousness, imo, to be more effective as a spiritual healer.

 

I wouldn't know how to grade them really, nor is it my place to judge who is true and who is not. My opinion is based off the queues that wait patiently for healing at some of these places. The longer the queue, the better the result. They are quite pragmatic over there. Do all the 'patients' get what they expect? I think affinity between seeker and healer plays a big part in the process. 

[ljazztrumpet]

2 minutes ago, C T said:

 

I wouldn't know how to grade them really, nor is it my place to judge who is true and who is not. My opinion is based off the queues that wait patiently for healing at some of these places. The longer the queue, the better the result. They are quite pragmatic over there. Do all the 'patients' get what they expect? I think affinity between seeker and healer plays a big part in the process. 

Right that makes sense of course...  Yes, I do feel affinity usually plays a part as well.. Even the most powerful and prolific healer I am aware of had people he said he couldn't help.. They were just too completely closed off at the time.

[rene]

1 hour ago, C T said:

 

I wouldn't know how to grade them really, nor is it my place to judge who is true and who is not. My opinion is based off the queues that wait patiently for healing at some of these places. The longer the queue, the better the result. They are quite pragmatic over there. Do all the 'patients' get what they expect? I think affinity between seeker and healer plays a big part in the process. 

 

1 hour ago, ljazztrumpet said:

Right that makes sense of course...  Yes, I do feel affinity usually plays a part as well.. Even the most powerful and prolific healer I am aware of had people he said he couldn't help.. They were just too completely closed off at the time.

 

In my thinking, our bodies have the skillsets to heal themselves IF we can keep ourselves out of the way.

 

Second best - if we cant keep our minds from 'interfering' - is believing we are healed or being healed (the longer the queue the more that must mean it works!) This affinity (between our mind and body) only amplifies the efficacy of our naturally  inherent healing mechanisms.

 

IMO, of course.

[Gerard]

4 hours ago, rene said:

our bodies have the skillsets to heal themselves

 

Indeed....BUT with reservations:

 

 

 

 

An aberration. Like food transportation across the globe, eating what is not in season, drinking chilled beverages, and the list goes on. We discussed this topic so many times before. No need to repeat time and again.

 

Let's start rebuilding the new human. From the ground up (a strong root all the way down to Hell).

 

PART 1. How to Asian Squat + Training routine 1 + Training routine 2

 

Do this every day as long as you like and as often as you like, anytime, anywhere.

 

Drill 1

Drill 2

 

 

PART 2 (to be continued).

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Gerard

[3bob]

obviously the later part of OP is twisted up...although we do have to face hell or the hellish (for instance karma, ego & evil facts or potentials) both within and without of ourselves, BUT that in no way means any true root is based or found there... for spiritual practices help enable one to face such forces and to seal them off.  The True Root and eternal power is greater than any known or knowable power by or of the mind - and is of the "spiritual heart",   

Edited November 30, 2017 by 3bob

[allinone]

13 hours ago, Gerard said:

Let's start rebuilding the new human. From the ground up (a strong root all the way down to Hell).

 

but to me it seem what you do is cutting the roots. Reading your other posts too you like the fetters model.

 

fetters model is not about cutting the root that we don't like female boobs anymore. They are great, because when we see them then we can connect to the belly and get a feeling. Feeling can be cultivated. Eventually boobs are a reminder and so on.

[C T]

49 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

but to me it seem what you do is cutting the roots. Reading your other posts too you like the fetters model.

 

fetters model is not about cutting the root that we don't like female boobs anymore. They are great, because when we see them then we can connect to the belly and get a feeling. Feeling can be cultivated. Eventually boobs are a reminder and so on.

 

Not sure if that's an appropriate analogy, mister allinone. I dont see the connection at all, but if you do, kindly instil in your writing a sense of meaning and clarity that makes your point more digestible? 

[allinone]

14 minutes ago, C T said:

 

Not sure if that's an appropriate analogy, mister allinone. I dont see the connection at all, but if you do, kindly instil in your writing a sense of meaning and clarity that makes your point more digestible? 

 

Buddha got milk. And ended its ascetic practice.

[allinone]

and for clarity Buddha doesn't accept offerings from anyone, only from who just appears out of nowhere(actually not remember that last part).

[C T]

3 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

Buddha got milk. And ended its ascetic practice.

 

that doesn't mean he suddenly became a happy chappy overnight. 

He merely initiated the practice of renunciation to replace asceticism, which he thought was too extreme. 

The Middle Way still encourages ethics, morality and discipline. Its up to the individual to decide how best to fit these guidelines into their life practice, a choice that is not available and therefore not promoted on the path of asceticism. 

[allinone]

9 minutes ago, C T said:

 

that doesn't mean he suddenly became a happy chappy overnight. 

He merely initiated the practice of renunciation to replace asceticism, which he thought was too extreme. 

The Middle Way still encourages ethics, morality and discipline. Its up to the individual to decide how best to fit these guidelines into their life practice, a choice that is not available and therefore not promoted on the path of asceticism. 

 

if to ask people do they suffer, the answer is no.

and

Mahayana tells that suffering needs to be developed.

 

teachings are how to get to suffering. 

But what we can see that middle way is abused like it will bring one to happiness, so the happiness is the focus. Like cart is put before the horse.