Unfair Karma

[ChiForce]

Just now, bax44 said:

 

You maid a lot of claims about what happens at the moments of death and beyond up to and including the ""49 days" where we can reincarnate..or not. Im aware that this may be metaphor-if so please tell me because taken literally it just sounds like more religious nonsense.

You need to make up your mind.  You say you have experienced the death bardo experience in your meditation (I doubt it).  Now, you are calling the entire bardo experience as nonsense and religious propaganda.  Well?  Look....I don't need to entertain you with any arguments.  There are no points.  The death experience itself is an individual experience.  Is going to happen when you are about to die.       

[bax44]

1 minute ago, ChiForce said:

You need to make up your mind.  You say you have experienced the death bardo experience in your meditation (I doubt it).  Now, you are calling the entire bardo experience as nonsense and religious propaganda.  Well?  Look....I don't need to entertain you with any arguments.  There are no points.  The death experience itself is an individual experience.  Is going to happen when you are about to die.       

Where did I say Ive experienced the "death bardo" in meditation? I have no clue what that even would look like. Ive had "cessation" type experiences though, where things flickered out and went offline.. but nothing constituting anything like youre describing. You totally just made that up, please dont.

 

Also, Im not sure I agree with your assertion about what happens in meditation. Theres "dullness" that can be circumvented with enough practice time that I suppose could be akin to "death" and the aliveness that comes when real awareness and attention are brought in could be "birth"-so again as metaphors I can see these working, and even in seeing ones own mind and proclivities certain habit energies "die off"...but upon more careful observation these are metaphors, nothing more.

[ChiForce]

1 minute ago, bax44 said:

Where did I say Ive experienced the "death bardo" in meditation? I have no clue what that even would look like. Ive had "cessation" type experiences though, where things flickered out and went offline.. but nothing constituting anything like youre describing. You totally just made that up, please dont.

 

Also, Im not sure I agree with your assertion about what happens in meditation. Theres "dullness" that can be circumvented with enough practice time that I suppose could be akin to "death" and the aliveness that comes when real awareness and attention are brought in could be "birth"-so again as metaphors I can see these working, and even in seeing ones own mind and proclivities certain habit energies "die off"...but upon more careful observation these are metaphors, nothing more.

Whatever you say...I am not here to entertain you and to prove to you anything.  Why? 

[bax44]

Just now, ChiForce said:

Whatever you say...I am not here to entertain you and to prove to you anything.  Why? 

 

You dont have to. You were throwing things around in your post about the after death state with a lot of certainty, so I simply am wondering where you got that type of confidence about death from. I figured it was some religious thousand year old text you were referencing, but just was curious. You dont know any more than me or anyone else does.

[ChiForce]

1 minute ago, bax44 said:

 

You dont have to. You were throwing things around in your post about the after death state with a lot of certainty, so I simply am wondering where you got that type of confidence about death from. I figured it was some religious thousand year old text you were referencing, but just was curious. You dont know any more than me or anyone else does.

Of course..no one knows more than you....

[bax44]

1 minute ago, ChiForce said:

Of course..no one knows more than you....

 

true.

[thelerner]

17 minutes ago, bax44 said:

Well Im sure we could take any book and imagine a scenario where what its claiming or talking about "could" be true at any given time under the right circumstances. But theres also the danger of getting lost in the words.

Course, that's also the game we tend to play with regards to interpreting Karma.

[Jessup2]

And here we run into entanglements, which I would be bold enough to say, are what I think happens from an energy point of view. Perhaps more the ideal karma? And thus, removing it from religious and santa claus speculation.

 

Explanation, everything we "invest" "e-motional" energy into, entangles and bundles, ties up, energy, and creates bonds and links between us and everything around us, particularly other people, but also objects. These are mostly wasteful and become anchors that keep us from pure energy that is clear and free. It is also obvious that it blocks or alters the flow of energy for all forms of practices.

This process of freedom is considered to be retrieval of your energy, spitting out the energy of others, and thus untangling. Untangling energy cobwebs. I hear many people are reincarnated around each other.

Some of this is very quantum-type science. Since that which is entangled in a quantum manner, reflects energy from source or destination as though it is connected or in the same circuit. So others can drag you down if you are still, entangled...

 

 

[Gerard]

5 hours ago, Jessup2 said:

How about some reflective thoughts?

 

 

Deepen your practice rather than attacking what you don’t yet understand. Very easy and simple...the hard work is where most fail. No one wants to work hard anymore, it’s easier to sit down hoping wisdom will knock on your door. Sorry it doesn’t quite work like that.

 

Come with me and train under my tutelage circle walking every day for 10 years (only mother palm work, expect walking in one direction for 30 min holding nothing but one palm

and then change direction and do the same thing for another 1/2 h) plus all the foundation and seated meditation work that follows the moving practice. No socialising, no girls, and all that sensual stuff that plagues this material plane.

 

Rain, heat, high humidity, tropical storms, wind, etc. It doesn’t matter you’ll train under all those conditions. 

 

Alternatively (another example of hard work which I highly recommend and vouch for):

 

https://www.updevelopment.org/pa-auk-tawya/

 

Upon meditating, around day 30, there was a shift in the way “I” experienced reality.

It occurred to me that I wasn’t conscious of sensations. They were conscious of themselves.

 

Vipassana/insight meditation. Good stuff!

 

Karma? You’ll discover bigger things than karma, ie what you really are and the ultimate meaning of reality.

 

And people today claiming enlightenment...please let’s be serious because you honestly don’t know what you are talking about.

 

You have no remote idea how far you need to go to reach that state.

 

Self-realisation leads to wisdom.

 

I deeply respect and admire this type of spiritual warrior:

 

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/encounter/in-search-of-a-wandering-buddhist-monk/5847926

 

 

He will tell you a thing or two about the law of karma, for sure.

 

Btw,

 

Here’s is where you CURRENTLY are located in this life cycle as the website so wisely states:

 

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html

 

Also:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_Material

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Gerard

[Jessup2]

23 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

Come with me and train under my tutelage circle walking every day for 10 years (only mother palm work, expect walking in one direction for 30 min holding nothing but one palm

and then change direction and do the same thing for another 1/2 h) plus all the foundation and seated meditation work that follows the moving practice. No socialising, no girls, and all that sensual stuff that plagues this material plane.

 

Rain, heat, high humidity, tropical storms, wind, etc. It doesn’t matter you’ll train under all those conditions. 

 

 

I don't do teachers and masters. No offense, but I'm nobody's fool and will never be a slave unless you can walk on water or something. Anything that proves you are non-human by all standards will do. Oh, and that you achieved this by self-inflicted torture of this kind. Following blind is how people end up in the Kool-Aid situation, and the end is usually not pretty.

 

So... Uh, no thanks. I will never be a slave to that sort of mind-F'ing torture. And exactly my point. If that is what it takes, screw that system. I would rather just die and cease to exist, instead of being screwed over and over by some no-fun system without real power, or with nothing but an empty promise of some better afterlife... or the "maybe next life" bull sales technique. This is the same Santa Claus, be good or else, Christian, hell is waiting for you, scare tactics without merit and fact.

 

I think the only good that mental screw has had has been to make people feel like they don't need to jump in and correct the evils in this world. Don't worry about it. Leave it up to karma. Let God be the punisher. All crap in my opinion.

 

No offense, and more power to you if you choose that life. 

 

I want proof, I want people who have come back (reincarnate) that remember exactly what happened, why it happened, with direct instructions for all of us, and proof of that. But it doesn't exist and nobody survives or remembers, so it is rather vague at best, and as such goes into the "never mind this is not right" pile...

 

If they can explain it and give instructions, and don't, I have some choice words for people like that, not nice ones. If they could explain it and give instructions, and hold back for "chosen" people, or those who jump through magic hoops, special students, etc. I have even more ugly words.... because that is just not right. There is no way to justify withholding.

 

What I am saying, is that if we are all slaves to this crap, and it is run by some "invisible" plan that tortures everyone, I think it is more than likely wrong and some scare tactic. If it does exist as a reward and punishment system, which is what the life you describe is all about, self-inflicted suffering and torture, then it can kiss my ....

 

Thus, I choose the quantum entanglement idea as the better one. It has nothing to do with torturing yourself or suffering, or moving away from material things, etc.

What the entanglement shows, is plain energy. You invest it, you are stuck with your investment until you pull your energy back out. You can pull it back, and can send others the energy back that they left behind. That is worthwhile, that is worth the effort if this energy is all that stands between you and bending gravity or freedom of the "soul" to not have to be recycled over and over. But still, nobody returns to tell us things. Nobody is on TV as, the reincarnated with instruction... they all just take off and never come back? Not buying it...

 

To invest and entangle your energy in another practice is simply to switch what you are entangling, not a form of freedom.

To attach yourself with a teacher/master, is simply more entanglement of your energy and what you are allowed to do with it. Someone else deciding when you are "ready" for the next particle while torturing you to be sure you are "ready". Judgmental and rather narrow-minded for this century... yet they still claim it is forces beyond deciding your fate. Prove it...

 

When you are "ready", someone else shows up and beats you to death, just to prove who is better? WTF... yes, this is the history of most of this... not some enlightened monk. 

 

Interesting concepts, thanks for sharing...

 

Stay fluid

[bax44]

43 minutes ago, Jessup2 said:

 

I don't do teachers and masters. No offense, but I'm nobody's fool and will never be a slave unless you can walk on water or something. Anything that proves you are non-human by all standards will do. Oh, and that you achieved this by self-inflicted torture of this kind. Following blind is how people end up in the Kool-Aid situation, and the end is usually not pretty.

 

So... Uh, no thanks. I will never be a slave to that sort of mind-F'ing torture. And exactly my point. If that is what it takes, screw that system. I would rather just die and cease to exist, instead of being screwed over and over by some no-fun system without real power, or with nothing but an empty promise of some better afterlife... or the "maybe next life" bull sales technique. This is the same Santa Claus, be good or else, Christian, hell is waiting for you, scare tactics without merit and fact.

 

I think the only good that mental screw has had has been to make people feel like they don't need to jump in and correct the evils in this world. Don't worry about it. Leave it up to karma. Let God be the punisher. All crap in my opinion.

 

No offense, and more power to you if you choose that life. 

 

I want proof, I want people who have come back (reincarnate) that remember exactly what happened, why it happened, with direct instructions for all of us, and proof of that. But it doesn't exist and nobody survives or remembers, so it is rather vague at best, and as such goes into the "never mind this is not right" pile...

 

If they can explain it and give instructions, and don't, I have some choice words for people like that, not nice ones. If they could explain it and give instructions, and hold back for "chosen" people, or those who jump through magic hoops, special students, etc. I have even more ugly words.... because that is just not right. There is no way to justify withholding.

 

What I am saying, is that if we are all slaves to this crap, and it is run by some "invisible" plan that tortures everyone, I think it is more than likely wrong and some scare tactic. If it does exist as a reward and punishment system, which is what the life you describe is all about, self-inflicted suffering and torture, then it can kiss my ....

 

Thus, I choose the quantum entanglement idea as the better one. It has nothing to do with torturing yourself or suffering, or moving away from material things, etc.

What the entanglement shows, is plain energy. You invest it, you are stuck with your investment until you pull your energy back out. You can pull it back, and can send others the energy back that they left behind. That is worthwhile, that is worth the effort if this energy is all that stands between you and bending gravity or freedom of the "soul" to not have to be recycled over and over. But still, nobody returns to tell us things. Nobody is on TV as, the reincarnated with instruction... they all just take off and never come back? Not buying it...

 

To invest and entangle your energy in another practice is simply to switch what you are entangling, not a form of freedom.

To attach yourself with a teacher/master, is simply more entanglement of your energy and what you are allowed to do with it. Someone else deciding when you are "ready" for the next particle while torturing you to be sure you are "ready". Judgmental and rather narrow-minded for this century... yet they still claim it is forces beyond deciding your fate. Prove it...

 

When you are "ready", someone else shows up and beats you to death, just to prove who is better? WTF... yes, this is the history of most of this... not some enlightened monk. 

 

Interesting concepts, thanks for sharing...

 

Stay fluid

 

Excellent.

[Gerard]

Train like a Mickey Mouse and you shall get a Mickey Mouse body. Train like a warrior and you shall get a warrior’s body.

 

Same applies to the Mind.

 

 

Please read the book, if you haven’t already, Opening the Dragon Gate: The Making of a Modern Taoist Wizard and ask yourself this question:

 

Did Wang Liping practice like a Mickey Mouse and were his three masters three rodents or three dragons?

 

Good luck and I hope you find what you are after.

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Gerard

[Bud Jetsun]

The nature of reality offers some sensations of phenomena. 

 

Self-torture ends when phenomena is greeted with genuine appreciation.  

 

When a beings thoughts match their speech and actions and the choice of appreciation of what may or may not be is unbreakable, karma will not be an opponent to be tangled with but an opportunity to live actions aligned with the Dao.  

 

[ljazztrumpet]

We're all doing the best we can with what we know. Who knows what people who commit acts that cause great suffering have went through themselves? They are doing the best they can with what they know. I don't believe in punishment - but I do believe in doing everything possible to alleviate suffering. Sure, I think certain people have to be isolated from society/euthanized to lessen suffering - but not as punishment... Just to lessen suffering. It's not that I'm saying that life isn't valuable, but I think what is definitely more valuable is not suffering. Do we learn great lessons and grow spiritually through suffering? In most cases I would say definitely. Is it ethically right? Is the end justified by the means? Throughout history, has this ever worked out?

 

But I am much more interested in overcoming any karma that might exist rather than debating over what it really is and why it might be there. One strategy I find helpful is cultivating an active love for Life. Let's say you live in a country run by a ruthless dictator. If you cultivate a love for that dictator perhaps you can rise in power and, one day, overcome that dictator. Maybe one day you can change the paradigm of 'learning through suffering'. 

 

In other sense, by cultivating a love for Life, maybe you will come to see that you are that Life you are loving. Maybe it will dissolve ideas of separation and, perhaps, you could overcome the ignorant part of yourself that setup a paradigm of suffering and the idea that we are separate beings, and replace/overcome this ignorance with a wiser part of yourself and really change things up! 

[ljazztrumpet]

There are also demonstrations of people who have overcome suffering in this world. People who go to torturous deaths singing and laughing. Or the buddhist monks who self-immolate sitting stock still and seeming to be in no apparent pain. There is at least proof that we can overcome what most of us perceive to be a very unfair setup - even if some part of us knows we set it up in the first place!;-)

[ljazztrumpet]

6 hours ago, Jessup2 said:

 

I don't do teachers and masters. No offense, but I'm nobody's fool and will never be a slave unless you can walk on water or something. Anything that proves you are non-human by all standards will do. Oh, and that you achieved this by self-inflicted torture of this kind. Following blind is how people end up in the Kool-Aid situation, and the end is usually not pretty.

 

So... Uh, no thanks. I will never be a slave to that sort of mind-F'ing torture. And exactly my point. If that is what it takes, screw that system. I would rather just die and cease to exist, instead of being screwed over and over by some no-fun system without real power, or with nothing but an empty promise of some better afterlife... or the "maybe next life" bull sales technique. This is the same Santa Claus, be good or else, Christian, hell is waiting for you, scare tactics without merit and fact.

 

I think the only good that mental screw has had has been to make people feel like they don't need to jump in and correct the evils in this world. Don't worry about it. Leave it up to karma. Let God be the punisher. All crap in my opinion.

 

No offense, and more power to you if you choose that life. 

 

I want proof, I want people who have come back (reincarnate) that remember exactly what happened, why it happened, with direct instructions for all of us, and proof of that. But it doesn't exist and nobody survives or remembers, so it is rather vague at best, and as such goes into the "never mind this is not right" pile...

 

If they can explain it and give instructions, and don't, I have some choice words for people like that, not nice ones. If they could explain it and give instructions, and hold back for "chosen" people, or those who jump through magic hoops, special students, etc. I have even more ugly words.... because that is just not right. There is no way to justify withholding.

 

What I am saying, is that if we are all slaves to this crap, and it is run by some "invisible" plan that tortures everyone, I think it is more than likely wrong and some scare tactic. If it does exist as a reward and punishment system, which is what the life you describe is all about, self-inflicted suffering and torture, then it can kiss my ....

 

Thus, I choose the quantum entanglement idea as the better one. It has nothing to do with torturing yourself or suffering, or moving away from material things, etc.

What the entanglement shows, is plain energy. You invest it, you are stuck with your investment until you pull your energy back out. You can pull it back, and can send others the energy back that they left behind. That is worthwhile, that is worth the effort if this energy is all that stands between you and bending gravity or freedom of the "soul" to not have to be recycled over and over. But still, nobody returns to tell us things. Nobody is on TV as, the reincarnated with instruction... they all just take off and never come back? Not buying it...

 

To invest and entangle your energy in another practice is simply to switch what you are entangling, not a form of freedom.

To attach yourself with a teacher/master, is simply more entanglement of your energy and what you are allowed to do with it. Someone else deciding when you are "ready" for the next particle while torturing you to be sure you are "ready". Judgmental and rather narrow-minded for this century... yet they still claim it is forces beyond deciding your fate. Prove it...

 

When you are "ready", someone else shows up and beats you to death, just to prove who is better? WTF... yes, this is the history of most of this... not some enlightened monk. 

 

Interesting concepts, thanks for sharing...

 

Stay fluid

You can overcome it and change things..Yes, look for the proof definitely! Look for 'miraculous' physical and emotional healings - don't settle for any so-called 'teachers' words..Look for the actions.. Not the ones talking about any 'awakening', 'enlightenment', or anything like that.. Look for the actual happenings that improve life and take away suffering from others.. These are usually the ones who say little and who have great love in their heart and demonstrate it all the time. And never will you hear them talk about being awakened, enlightened, or anything like that.. you will see true humility, love, and compassion..and actual demonstration of the power of what true humility, love, and compassion can do. No egoic claims..no trying to look like the 'spiritual master'.. just the opposite.. quiet..unassuming.. shunning the spotlight...etc. 

 

Anyway, imo, it's not like any of have a choice in any of this anyway. Life will force all of us to this place sooner or later - if not in this lifetime, maybe in the 312th lifetime from now ;-)

[ljazztrumpet]

Oh, and don't forget to pray to God..One of the most highly effective forms of prayer - sometimes known as 'The Atheist in a Foxhole' prayer

 

 

[thelerner]

One of my sensei's used to say 'Everything I teach you is a lie, but necessary ones to get you from point a to point b'.  A good metaphor could cut through hours or weeks of training.  Thus I've gotten comfortable with 'acting, as if' rather then through strictly logical proofs.  Not that they're always opposed to each other, but with one.. you live in a larger world, with more possibilities, navigated as much with logic as with insight and instinct. 

 

And it works for me.  This mish mosh world view. 

[Bud Jetsun]

Committing today to appreciate tomorrow's moment is just wasting Now in self delusion.  The universe owes you not even one more breath or heartbeat and never has. Gratitude for the sensation of perceiving this one moment makes all experience genuinely good, as it offers new depth of perspective and enriching phenomena. 

 

It's equally just one beings choice in Now between suffering in a palace of comforts or savoring every ragged bit of breath flooded with enriching pain receptor nerve signals with only genuine appreciation for the opportunity to continue seeing the sky. 

 

Karma works as reliably as gravity with the energy we expend in thought/action leading to perfectly manifesting the experience proportionately to their choice in mindfulness and creativity. 

 

What may have been is irrelevant and inexpressible, what may yet be is irrelevant and inexpressible. Choice in appreciation is the difference between an experience being 'good or bad', the experiential phenomena exists only in this one moment alone. 

 

If a being chooses to show kindness to themselves, it begins by appreciation of this one moment of life experience exactly as it is. The universe will reflect and manifest the experiences needed, not the experiences wanted. Wanting only instantly manifests the experience of wanting. Manifesting happens through a beings choice in mindful thought/action in this one moment. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Bud Jetsun

[ljazztrumpet]

On 12/20/2017 at 5:22 PM, thelerner said:

One of my sensei's used to say 'Everything I teach you is a lie, but necessary ones to get you from point a to point b'.  A good metaphor could cut through hours or weeks of training.  Thus I've gotten comfortable with 'acting, as if' rather then through strictly logical proofs.  Not that they're always opposed to each other, but with one.. you live in a larger world, with more possibilities, navigated as much with logic as with insight and instinct. 

 

And it works for me.  This mish mosh world view. 

RIghto lerner - if we act 'as if' we can cultivate more positive situations for ourselves and others that can lessen overall suffering.

2 hours ago, Bud Jetsun said:

 The universe owes you not even one more breath or heartbeat and never has. Gratitude for the sensation of perceiving this one moment makes all experience genuinely good, as it offers new depth of perspective and enriching phenomena. 

 

It's equally just one beings choice in Now between suffering in a palace of comforts or savoring every ragged bit of breath flooded with enriching pain receptor nerve signals with only genuine appreciation for the opportunity to continue seeing the sky. 

You say that Buddy as if it's beyond a strategy to lessen one's suffering. I've always looked at the cultivation of the outlook you describe as a means to overcome a decision made in ignorance - that of the creation of the idea of separation; separate beings, etc. The way I currently view things: If we can get to a place where, experientially, we don't judge/experience what we most normally would experience as physical/emotional pain, then we have overcome something created without a lot of wisdom and, thereby, can create a new situation devoid of pain/suffering, whether it be physical or emotional. Sensation just becomes sensation, not 'good' or 'bad'. The way I currently see it is that the cultivation of a continual love for all things arising, if possible, may be the key to all of this.

Edited December 22, 2017 by ljazztrumpet

[blue eyed snake]

have not read all the other posts, but can add how my current view is.

 

You may be aware that I'm severely ill, I had a pretty hard life, rape and assault bugged me down with post traumatic stress disorder, raised in an unhealthy family. Then myself raising a child with developmental disorders ( who is now grown up and living in a sort of 'home') , staying with an husband who was not good for me because i could not rise the child alone. He needed constant care and I did not want to place him in a home at a young age. A nasty divorce, then at the same time losing my job.

 

then looking at my sister, with whom I share part of karma. She has a loving and caring husband,, a beautiful home, three sons of whom two are doing great, are balanced young men, now raising their own families. She's never been out of job.

 

should I be ' jealous' ?

 

On the contrary, i found lately that I would not want to change places. As she walks through life with an enormous anger in her heart, an anger that I recognize very well... the same anger our mum carried in her heart.

 

I've shed that anger, to me, that's the working of karma. My heart now is open and able of compassion, i'm very grateful for that. I really do prefer that over the life of my sister which looks good from the outside, but is devoid of , what to me, is what it is all about.

 

just my two cents of course.

[Jessup2]

1 hour ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

You may be aware that I'm severely ill, I had a pretty hard life, rape and assault bugged me down with post traumatic stress disorder, raised in an unhealthy family. Then myself raising a child with developmental disorders ( who is now grown up and living in a sort of 'home') , staying with an husband who was not good for me because i could not rise the child alone. He needed constant care and I did not want to place him in a home at a young age. A nasty divorce, then at the same time losing my job.

 

 

From what I have been able to determine in looking at different systems across the globe, you would be a better candidate for reaching more goals in energy-related training than someone with a "normal" life.

 

There are a few science connections, in particular genetic mutations. In one of them, the only way they even begin to look for this mutation is if someone has had an abusive situation and now suffers from explosive disorder. In that case, for example, the MAO-A warrior and/or the COMT gene is sometimes the active issue. Keeping so much serotonin and hormones around (not breaking them down properly) that it becomes an active volcano of rage. Over time that high level destroys the intestines and the bones, causes internal cysts, and generally weakens a person with time.

 

Looking at the level of qi associated, it rises up and becomes a force that is very difficult to fix. Over time this rips organs like the liver and leaves scars. 

 

Yes, I am speaking from experience. Women suffer more, because of the hormone-related issues and natural fluctuations. I have had acupuncture folks say that they don't know how to work on "fire" people like me, and that I would need to find someone with knowledge in that area. I feel that being born like this, we don't get to eat the things other people eat. The cures and tonics made for the average person do not apply. Exercises and practices change also.

 

Celtic and/or Northern people, Irish, Scott etc... probably need more "warp spasm" training, and awareness where the flows go so they don't destroy the bones and other body parts. I see a higher use of alcohol in most of them, since they have long recognized the effects. Modern drugs are not that great, but some can "mop up" the excess, like Tianeptine (Stablon). Some can calm the fire. Fluctuations in the limbic brain set off emotional outbursts that we learn to control so much better than most. Since without that control, we would be in deep trouble very often. 

 

Feel free to share or PM me. I am a Norse-child myself. Were it not for modern medicine, and my own strength, I would be long dead by now, many times over... I am now 56. I have determined a few things through focus and study. One of them is the no-sugar allowed. The other is types of yeast. Without both of those, life is much better.

 

In my humble opinion, blocking our energy, keeping ourselves under control, cooperating with idiots and sheep people, are what makes us sicker. We need to blow off energy and steam in a very energetic way, sometimes it may appear to be aggressive or negative because people are not fire. We just don't belong in a society full of non-warrior types. We should also not eat sheep food or live sheep lives. That passive nature is anti-health. 

 

Thus, different strokes for different folks. 

 

And that's my humble (never) opinion... 

 

[Bud Jetsun]

Karma will still behave as perfectly as gravity.  It requires none of a beings understanding, concern or attention to function. 

 

Energy will still behave as perfectly as gravity. It requires none of a beings understanding, concern or attention to function. 

 

If a being wishes to show kindness to themselves, it will still happen the instant they choose to appreciate their one moment.    Their will always be infinite reasons why a being could optionally choose not to appreciate this moment, yet it remains exclusively the choice of a single being to show compassion to themselves. 

 

When a being consumes the energy of tortured murdered carcasses and builds a body from this energy, it's both karma and energy functioning perfectly to transfer that energy of suffering to compose your vessel.  

 

No other being has the capacity to appreciate your life experiences for you, it is a gift you alone can give yourself, and only you alone hold yourself back.  

 

In this one moment it remains optionally possible to forgive yourself, forgive all beings for all possibilities of what may have occurred or may be yet to occur, and this severing of self-imposed bonds enables a seed of self-compassion to grow.  This compassion for self reflects in compassion and appreciation for all beings and all circumstances conditional and non-conditional as an aspect of the whole of the Dao. 

 

It is equally possible to choose to experience unbounded pointless suffering by choosing to cling to uncompassionate not-forgiving and not-appreciating whatever may be, and each being is free to do so until their last breath if they choose. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Bud Jetsun

[thelerner]

2 hours ago, Bud Jetsun said:

When a being consumes the energy of tortured murdered carcasses and builds a body from this energy, it's both karma and energy functioning perfectly to transfer that energy of suffering to compose your vessel.  

 

So.. if a vegetarian 'suffers' its not because of eating tortured murdered carcasses, its because of.. because they don't eat meat!  If they did they'd be happy, well adjusted, less judgemental people..  By your logic, if a vegetarian suffers, its for the same reason an omnivore suffers.. a diet that goes against Karma.  They need a Big Mac to get right with Karma.  It is simple. 

 

Sorry for the sarcasm but the dark side of believing in Karma is that the rich are good, the poor and suffering are bad (and deserve it) and that's the way it should be.  And one points toward those with different beliefs as being Karmically challenged. 

 

Personally I admire the vegetarian diet for its ethical and environmental points, but it doesn't make people better, worse or happier then others.. at least not much. 

[Bud Jetsun]

3 minutes ago, thelerner said:

So.. if a vegetarian 'suffers' its not because of eating tortured murdered carcasses, its because of.. because they don't eat meat!  If they did they'd be happy, well adjusted, less judgemental people..  By your logic, if a vegetarian suffers, its for the same reason an omnivore suffers.. a diet that goes against Karma.  They need a Big Mac to get right with Karma.  It is simple. 

 

Sorry for the sarcasm but the dark side of believing in Karma is that the rich are good, the poor and suffering are bad (and deserve it) and that's the way it should be.  And one points toward those with different beliefs as being Karmically challenged. 

 

Personally I admire the vegetarian diet for its ethical and environmental points, but it doesn't make people better, worse or happier then others.. at least not much. 

 

Thank you for your kind reply friend. I accept any/all logical errors and surrender them to you.  I lack even the capacity to know if I'm dreaming this moment and make no claims of knowing or methods of expressing Truth in the form of shapes of pixels on a screen. 

 

For the first few decades of my life I predominately ate dead animal carcass, joked I was a carnivore, and teased vegetarians and vegans for their diet choices, so I don't judge anyone for whatever they want to eat, because it's them who has to live in a vessel composed from bits of the energy of torture and murder for whatever reasons not important for me to understand. 

 

Neither of us understand how our bodies take in some mashed up food energy and convert it into the collective of trillions of living cell's energy cooperating together to compose our bodies.  We don't even know the shapes of the organs in the cells we're manufacturing billions of daily, or understand the functions or shapes beyond crude dissection and microscopy observations.  Diet choice and other actions/karma become dependently arising on a beings awareness and compassion.  When a being embraces compassion towards their own self-awareness, they reflect this compassion towards other beings.  With compassion for themselves and other beings, no flavor preferences justify the torture and murder other beings to satisfy ones own fleeting mouth/tongue/belly sensations.   As a function of not living the karma of choosing themselves or others to torture and murder other living beings, they don't build themselves from that type of energy or karma (our choices and actions). 

 

With awareness of the existence of the sentience and reality and perspective of all beings, choosing a non-vegan meal choice feels as twisted and objectionable as if someone asked you to torture and murder a loved pet dog/cat/bunny/bird and gut it and chop up it's body for their preference in sensory amusement. 

 

Fortunately, we don't have to make tomorrows meal choices today anymore than we have to live tomorrows opportunity to express karma and energy today.  Just this one moment alone encompasses the whole of the real choice in thought/action. 

 

Unlimited Love,

-Bud