Why do I always feel terrible at 03:00-04:00am?

[shortstuff]

I was about to start a thread about qigong sickness but just checked the time and realised something else...

 

At the moment I keep funny sleep hours, 8 hours or so between 6am and 2pm.

 

This means I am up all night long.

 

I have noticed I seem to naturally adopt this sleep pattern in the winter, probably due to little to no melatonin.

 

I have also noticed that every night in between 3 and 4 am I feel absolutely terrible. Sometimes it is panic attacks, sometimes it is random indigestion and heartburn, sometimes it is feeling like balls of steel (like ballbearings) are travelling down my arteries (normally left leg and right arm so not heart related).

 

I have been to the docs recently, full bloodwork and check, all good, perfect blood pressure etc.

 

Any ideas why this happens at this time of night?

Has anyone else experienced the same?

 

Any cures for my sleep pattern? 11pm would be perfect. If I take 1200mg of ashwagandha it knocks me out but gives me a terrible hangover style headache the next day.

Thanks!

[Maddie]

You might want to see an acupuncturist. There is a condition called "running piglet" that while not exactly what you listed is similar. 

[ljazztrumpet]

If you're awake and alone, it could be a prompting of your body to meditate. It can be a really powerful time to meditate, and your body may be trying to give you a signal. I recommend using a simple position recommended to me by a very powerful spiritual healer: http://www.livingflow.net/bruno-groening-healing-heilstrom/ I don't do it exactly as described on that page. I just sit in the position recommended, focus on seeing if I can 'tune into' a healing stream/Love (think of it like tuning into a radio broadcast) and think about radiating love outward (and inward) to whatever/whoever comes up in my mind. Try it for 10 minutes for a few days and see if it doesn't improve the way you feel. 

[joeblast]

9 hours ago, shortstuff said:

Thanks!

what is your exercise regimen like?  how often do you break a sweat?  how old are you? 

 

when yang waxes weakly, the yin it engenders is similarly weak.

when yang waxes strongly, yin comes easily and forthrightly...and promotes a stronger yang...

[thelerner]

A couple physical things.. as Dawei pointed out in another thread, beware of sleeping on your left side, it can put pressure on your heart (cause its lower).  Raising the head of bed a few inches, ie put some books under the legs, can help with indigestion and heart burn by having gravity keep the acids from creeping up.  If its bad, have some antacids like tums nearby (short term), then see if dietary changes help (long term), especially evening and night.

 

The advice above is good, exercise helps.. instead of fighting insomnia using it as a call to meditate is good.  Melatonin is cheap, low doses tend to work as well as higher ones, though not for everyone.  Worth a try. 

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

sounds like liver related. 

Finding a good acupuncturist might be a very good idea, and/or someone who is real good with chines herbs.

 

Melatonin is not as harmless as many people think, besides. It is needed for falling asleep, not for trouble waking up in the night and then feeling sick. 

 

Melatonin has a feedbackloop with GABA, meaning that taking melatonin reduces the amount of GABA you produce, thats not something you want for chronic problems. But for a jetlag it can be of great help 

[dwai]

12 hours ago, shortstuff said:

I was about to start a thread about qigong sickness but just checked the time and realised something else...

 

At the moment I keep funny sleep hours, 8 hours or so between 6am and 2pm.

 

This means I am up all night long.

 

I have noticed I seem to naturally adopt this sleep pattern in the winter, probably due to little to no melatonin.

 

I have also noticed that every night in between 3 and 4 am I feel absolutely terrible. Sometimes it is panic attacks, sometimes it is random indigestion and heartburn, sometimes it is feeling like balls of steel (like ballbearings) are travelling down my arteries (normally left leg and right arm so not heart related).

 

I have been to the docs recently, full bloodwork and check, all good, perfect blood pressure etc.

 

Any ideas why this happens at this time of night?

Has anyone else experienced the same?

 

Any cures for my sleep pattern? 11pm would be perfect. If I take 1200mg of ashwagandha it knocks me out but gives me a terrible hangover style headache the next day.

Thanks!

You are picking up the transmission of the Universe at this time when it is strongest. It is called the Brahmamuhurta. Try sitting down and meditating at this time and see what you feel  

[Gerard]

An organ network will suddenly gather the greatest momentum right after it peaks, which is one hour later after the ruling period. So:

 

Liver network —-> 1-3am

Greatest momentum —-> 3-4am

 

Btw, this is my favourite training time of the entire 24 h cycle, the 3-4am period. This morning I was doing walking meditation at that time and I reached...wonderful!

 

In your case, I’d suggest you taking a herbal formula during this time and practice seated meditation to heal the liver. Go see a Chinese Medicine practitioner to get a formula. Maybe:

 

Chai Hi Shu Gu Tang (Bluperum Powder to Spread the Liver)

 

http://www.americandragon.com/Herb Formulas copy/ChaiHuShuGanTang.html

 

 

Good luck!

[shortstuff]

Is there any reason my liver would be bad? I don't drink alcohol and wasn't an alcoholic before I quit alcohol...

Thank you for the responses I will try most of them. I haven't found a recommended acupuncturist in my area yet (or a TCM for that matter).

[Gerard]

1. Excess Heart energy damages the Liver. Unfulfilled desires.

 

2. Emotional blockages, this includes anger, frustration, hate, resentment, etc.

 

3. Poor diet and eating too fast and/or while doing other activities even while watching TV. Eat slowly, mindfully and tasting well what you eat with joy and happiness.

 

4. Stress

 

5. Sexual activity

 

6. Lack of physical activity

 

7. Alcohol and other drug consumption including Western medication of any kind. Even after you stop the damage is there, but it’s easy to regenerate the liver with correct energetic work over time.

 

8. Going late to bed except for meditation practice.

 

8. Environmental pollution

 

Many of these will also deplete the Jing and Kidney. 

 

There must be a herbalist where you live or in a nearby location unless you live in the middle of nowhere. This would be inconvenient, so you’d need to travel to see one.

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Gerard

[dawei]

I'm mostly with Gerald on this...  this is a LIver / Lung cross-road time.   If you were awaking energized, that would be good news but the symptoms suggest otherwise.

 

Blood tests would at least show AST and ALD liver levels... was that done and ok ?

 

Exactly why are you sleeping when you do?   Due to working a 3rd shift or you can't fall asleep ?

 

If it is simply you cannot fall asleep, then stress or worry about something seems possible.  Be honest and try to identify that.  A smiling meditation might help.

 

You can try a melting meditation (focus on oil dripping on the crown and slowly flowing downward over the body and eventually out the feet to the universe).  The goal would be to relax and release as you focus downward so as to simply fall asleep at any point.

 

You must try to sleep by 11pm at the latest.    You can try to exercise more to induce the need to sleep.   

 

Avoid any caffeine or soda.    Make sure you're eating at natural times (7-9am; 12-1pm; 4-5pm) where it gets lighter as with each meal.   Eat simple.   It would be good to stop certain habits just to see if that helps. 

  

[Aetherous]

Being awake all night isn't healthy. There could be various theories about why you're feeling bad symptoms at that time, but I think the simple solution is just to be asleep then.

It helps to get enough exercise so that you're physically tired by 10 pm...then just let sleep happen naturally. Also, no blue lights from computer or tv screens...best to be in a dark room.

[cheya]

Do some research on circadian rhythms, and how they are related to the amount and timing of light (and exercise) you get. Try getting outside into bright light as early in the day as you can manage. This can help reset the rhythm. 

Light therapy can help, that is getting an artificial light that gives you the necessary wavelengths at the right time. Seem to remember something called a Go Light, not necessary to get that device, but read what they say about influence of using the light at different times of the day. They had a questionnaire to determine how your rhythm was disturbed, and then told you when to get the light to optimally reset it.

Good you've noticed this and that you're wanting to change it... Good luck!

 

[Fa Xin]

All really good recommendations. 

 

One thing ill say - try out magnesium before bed. Maybe 250mg magnesium citrate (calm brand name) about 1-3hours before bed. 

 

magnesium does a lot for the body - including promoting relaxation for muscles and regulating stress hormones and helping with sleep. 

 

Diets are notoriously low in magnesium, and many people are extremely surprised in how well they feel after supplementing with it. 

[ljazztrumpet]

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

All really good recommendations. 

 

One thing ill say - try out magnesium before bed. Maybe 250mg magnesium citrate (calm brand name) about 1-3hours before bed. 

 

magnesium does a lot for the body - including promoting relaxation for muscles and regulating stress hormones and helping with sleep. 

 

Diets are notoriously low in magnesium, and many people are extremely surprised in how well they feel after supplementing with it. 

It's 'Natural Calm' dude.. 'Natural Calm'! Natural Calm! Extra, extra! Get it while it lasts! Natural Calm everybody! Calm it down with Natural Calm! 'Easy-Peasy' is the way to go with..Natural Calm! 

https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Vitality-Supplement-Raspberry-Lemon/dp/B00BPUY3W0/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1514007294&sr=8-3&keywords=natural%2Bcalm%2Bmagnesium%2Bpowder&th=1

[ljazztrumpet]

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by ljazztrumpet

[Fa Xin]

9 minutes ago, ljazztrumpet said:

It's 'Natural Calm' dude.. 'Natural Calm'! Natural Calm! Extra, extra! Get it while it lasts! Natural Calm everybody! Calm it down with Natural Calm! 'Easy-Peasy' is the way to go with..Natural Calm! 

https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Vitality-Supplement-Raspberry-Lemon/dp/B00BPUY3W0/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1514007294&sr=8-3&keywords=natural%2Bcalm%2Bmagnesium%2Bpowder&th=1

That’s the one! Lol 

[shortstuff]

In the summer I am all good.

 

Winter though I have these issues.

 

Personally I think it is lack of exercise and melatonin. But I don't really want to start supplementing the latter. The former I can fix if I stop being lazy.

 

I take magnesium already (ZMA).

I am currently on nofap, it has made little to no difference.

 

Quote

1. Excess Heart energy damages the Liver. Unfulfilled desires.

 

2. Emotional blockages, this includes anger, frustration, hate, resentment, etc.

 

3. Poor diet and eating too fast and/or while doing other activities even while watching TV. Eat slowly, mindfully and tasting well what you eat with joy and happiness.

 

4. Stress

 

5. Sexual activity

 

6. Lack of physical activity

 

7. Alcohol and other drug consumption including Western medication of any kind. Even after you stop the damage is there, but it’s easy to regenerate the liver with correct energetic work over time.

 

8. Going late to bed except for meditation practice.

 

8. Environmental pollution

 

Many of these will also deplete the Jing and Kidney. 

 

There must be a herbalist where you live or in a nearby location unless you live in the middle of nowhere. This would be inconvenient, so you’d need to travel to see one.

 

I do have quite a few of those I guess. Though desires are not really relevant anymore as they are just thoughts and therefore don't exist. And the emotional blockages have been unblocking.

 

Will a herbalist understand Jing etc?

 

I used to have a herbalist 20 years ago. She got knighted recently so I guess I was lucky... are they expensive?

Thank you, all <3

[blue eyed snake]

hm, maybe it has the same root as mine...

 

do you use alcohol and/or coffee? if so does it change when you stop  taking that?

 

In that case you may want to do a googlesearch for liverphases.

 

It's probably something else though, but I thought I should mention it.

[Pavel Karavaev]

On 22.12.2017 at 5:49 AM, Aetherous said:

Being awake all night isn't healthy. There could be various theories about why you're feeling bad symptoms at that time, but I think the simple solution is just to be asleep then.

It helps to get enough exercise so that you're physically tired by 10 pm...then just let sleep happen naturally. Also, no blue lights from computer or tv screens...best to be in a dark room.

 

I agree with this advice, this is the simplest and natural way to solve the problem/

 

 

On 21.12.2017 at 6:51 AM, shortstuff said:

At the moment I keep funny sleep hours, 8 hours or so between 6am and 2pm.

 

This means I am up all night long.

 

Shortstuff, I think in this situation it is very important to adjust the regime of the day.  
To get this, one day try to not to go to bed until the evening, and then lie down to sleep at  8 or 9 pm. Then you can wake up in the morning. Then try to spend the day actively, and give rest to your head at the evening . Avoid working  at the computer at the evening, instead of it it's better to take a walk on the fresh air. Then you can easily fall asleep at 9-10 pm.

So I would advise you to be more active in the daytime, and in the evening take the rule of early retirement.
And then all these problems will leave You very naturally.

Good luck.

Sincerely, Paul.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Pavel Karavaev

[Gerard]

17 hours ago, shortstuff said:

1. Winter though I have these issues.

 

2.Personally I think it is lack of exercise  

 

 

3. I do have quite a few of those I guess. Though desires are not really relevant anymore as they are just thoughts and therefore don't exist. And the emotional blockages have been unblocking.

 

4. Will a herbalist understand Jing etc?

 

5. Are they expensive?
 

 

1. Most likely spleen qi deficiency. This upsets greatly the Wood since Earth controls this element. But a damp-heat environment will also upset the Wood. You need to see a Chinese Medicine practitioner to exactly determine what is wrong with you. Online is not the place to get a diagnosis and correct treatment.

 

2. Wood loves movement and going with a flow not constrained by routine which the Earth hates with passion. So you need to fine tune both elements. Go with the flow but also the routine type, not a careless one.

 

3. You will have desires until the day you reach sainthood.

 

4. Yes if they are Chinese Medicine ones.

 

5. Inexpensive in China and it all depends elsewhere. They can be expensive depending where you are.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Gerard

[KuroShiro]

On 12/21/2017 at 7:14 PM, Gerard said:

Btw, this is my favourite training time of the entire 24 h cycle, the 3-4am period. This morning I was doing walking meditation at that time and I reached...wonderful!

 

 

Could you please share your sleeping schedule?

Do you return to sleep afterwards?

I've read it's good to practice between 3-5am (Lung) but it's not easy to put it in practice.

[Pavel Karavaev]

On 29.12.2017 at 6:49 PM, KuroShiro said:

I've read it's good to practice between 3-5am (Lung) but it's not easy to put it in practice.

 

This can be a very harmonious mode if you go to sleep at 8 pm (or at least at 9 pm). Additionally the daytime sleep about  30-60 minutes would also be a wonderful decision.

By the way the time from 5 to 7 am, is very good for reading or creative activity.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Pavel Karavaev

[KuroShiro]

5 hours ago, Pavel Karavaev said:

 

This can be a very harmonious mode if you go to sleep at 8 pm (or at least at 9 pm). Additionally the daytime sleep about  30-60 minutes would also be a wonderful decision.

By the way the time from 5 to 7 am, is very good for reading or creative activity.

 

But that only gives you < 6-7 hours of sleep which might not be enough? Also during Summer it's still daytime at 8pm.

[Pavel Karavaev]

9 minutes ago, KuroShiro said:

But that only gives you < 6-7 hours of sleep which might not be enough?

Well, 7 hours is enough for a good sleep. In addition, this time includes daytime phases in which it is very useful to sleep, starting at 10 pm.

In addition, if there is an opportunity to have a short nap during the day, then there will be no fatigue.

 

19 minutes ago, KuroShiro said:

Also during Summer it's still daytime at 8pm.

Many people sleep very easily untill 10-11 am, although the time starts from 7 am or even earlier. Although of course in the summer time it is better go to sleep when it gets dark. 

By the way in my city in the summer there is no dark all night long. That's probably why it's not strange for me to go to bed in the daytime.