doc benway Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) (shrug) sure. and daosim has a metaphor for such indivuduals - "straw dogs". sure. and christ had a saying for ppl who pick and choose - ..many are called, but few are chosen.Matthew 22:14 It's not picking and choosing, nor are you a straw dog, if you live the core teachings, IMO. The 10,000 other complexities and window dressings that have been added over the millenia are artifice and politics. Christ's sayings applied to the religions of his day and to his teachings, of which there were relatively few, very basic, and profound wisdom. He was not referring to the incomprehensibly complex mess that has evolved since his death - he wouldn't have foreseen that and probably wouldn't approve of much of it were he alive today. Much of modern Christianity is as far removed from his teachings as it is from Daoism. Edited January 21, 2008 by xuesheng Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Procurator Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) It's not picking and choosing if you live the core teachings. and one is quite sure what exactly are those core teachings are, eh? Edited January 21, 2008 by Procurator Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted January 21, 2008 and one is quite sure what exactly are those core teachings are, eh? I would guess that those who consider themselves Daoists know what they believe. I don't think it's that difficult to identify the basic principles, as long as you recognize that it is a moving target with no finite answer and remain flexible. In fact, I think I can sum it up, in my mind at least, in 2 words - wu wei. In my view, it is up to each of us to find our answers and our path. If someone finds it in a limited part of the Daoist canon and chooses to call himself a Daoist, I'm fine with that. It's not for me to tell them what to call themselves nor to judge if their chosen label is valid. I don't find labels to be of much value anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wayfarer64 Posted January 22, 2008 The open mindedness of Xuesheng is a very fine example of what Taoism can offer to the closed-minded who would use language to obfuscate and create hierarchies that only exist in their own minds -(small as they are)... Be what you are and be it as well as yr able -if all you can muster is being a fool and a pedantic academic snoot, well baby, then go for it...those of us who see the reasons and the pain that beget such activities encourage these activities -some of it can be helpful when it instigates questioning and searching that would not have otherwise been approached. But to offer it as insight and knowledge or even wisdom, is just hubris without basis... in any language. The work that it takes to practice in the west what we have gleaned of the Tao as we have been able, through masters within a liniage or just plain relating to the YiJing on profound levels, should not provoke anything but admiration. To belittle our practices and knowledge because of some self engrandizment due to language or cultural differences -this strikes me as inherently racest, and dehumanizing, or plain narrow-minded in its essence... Transcending the differences that belie our common unity is one bit of Taoism that may help us here. There is a unifying force that some call the Tao. Using what we know of it, can help us to get beyond the barriers parodoxes induce when they are encountered and thus these can be transcended within the human mind... Lets not let the small minded amongst us make us refer back to the differences rather than the knowledge of our oneness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted January 22, 2008 There was this talk of retention on the forum, ppl were talking of going for 20 or 100 days without loss. Made me chuckle, i stayed 11 month without loss last time. Perhaps you could have shared some tips that helped you? When I watch beginners trying to do something that I can do, I find laughing at them to be less than helpful. At least you chuckled quietly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hagar Posted January 22, 2008 I don't think that Kirklands' essay has much to do with many here on this forum, it is aimed at his fellow academics and is a self-justifying message... Many here are willing to and indeed do, give up our "American/Western life styles" in an atempt to follow Taoist precepts... Humility is laking in Kirklands assumptions and I doubt that he is much of a Taoist himself, maybe that is part of his apparent frustration and wish to take umbrage at those who may differ in their approach to Taoist demands... Getting it and acting upon it is not predicated on taking the same meaning from texts that ancient sages once did, that would negate the living aspect of change that Taoist thought demands of us... Hear Hear! Kirkland's essay, and it's utterly conventional critique of western modernity is really at the core of any main-stream intellectual's work 30 years ago, so in this sense, it's yesterday news. This essay is marked with an utter neglect of the core teachings of any living Taoist teacher, living either in the west or China. What the author does not understand is the central element of any living Taoist lineage, and that the Tao is here, now and ever-changing. This means that there is no true authentic "core" to be unraveled, only after so-much search for the "true" reading of texts. The taoism of today is not a decaying version of an immenent truth in the original texts. Instead the energy and insight of a sincere practitioner of taoist arts today is as "authentic" and "Taoist" as any historical figure, being it Chang Po Tuan, or even Lao Tzu himself. The energy is changing, and not the same as when the "Original" taoist texts were written. Thus, there is no origin of Taoism, and thus, no decay. The apparent "mis-reading" and mis-interpretation of ,and over-emphasis ,of traditional texts such as Chuang Tzu gives new life to the transfiguration of taoist thought that is at the core of Daoism per se. h Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pietro Posted January 22, 2008 It's pseudo science. Did you read the link? I did, at least until I got bored. It is so boring that even the critique of his work end up being boooring. Thanks for the link, though. Made me economise $10. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
三江源 Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) "cat" writes: "Please share your lucid analysis with us..." It's pseudo science. Did you read the link? No, I didnt read the link. I have absolutely no interest in pseudo science. My point was, that we are here to exchange with one another and inform one another, learn from each other and help one another, and hopefully enjoy it. It would be great if you could have said straight off why it was rubbish instead of just flinging in an opinion with no explanation. The whole quality of the board will degenerate if we just fling opinions about and make unsubstantiated claims all the time. It is so much easier, online especially, if people are clear and explanatory. Edited January 22, 2008 by cat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buddy Posted January 22, 2008 "It is so much easier, online especially, if people are clear and explanatory." Didi you even bother to examine the work referenced? Did you want me to Cliff-note that for you too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
三江源 Posted January 22, 2008 "It is so much easier, online especially, if people are clear and explanatory." Didi you even bother to examine the work referenced? Did you want me to Cliff-note that for you too? I'm afraid you have utterly missed my point, despite me articulating it very clearly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Procurator Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) Perhaps you could have shared some tips that helped you? Hi Mal, sure thing. That is what i am here for. But i will be honest with you: if there is no overall plan - that is a strong will and knowledge to change-tips are not going to work. You come across as an exceedingly nice guy, which is assumed to be a good thing. But..life is a zero-sum game. And..in this particular aspect of life {the art of the bedchamber} the nice guys finish first . So...if you serious get this book, it is priceless http://www.amazon.com/Art-Bedchamber-Class...n/dp/0791408868]http://www.amazon.com/Art-Bedchamber-Class...n/dp/0791408868 a quote: "in engaging the enemy the man should regard her as so much tiles or stones and himself as gold or jade". Not so nice eh? if after reading you feel like following the precepts we can talk more. Edited January 22, 2008 by Procurator Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buddy Posted January 22, 2008 I'm afraid you have utterly missed my point, despite me articulating it very clearly. And yet those who are familiar with Hawkins work understood my comment. It's unclear to me if you know the book. Why ask about a subject you don't seem to interested enough to even bother researching? His use of a technique from Applied Kinesiology to validate religion is dodgy at best. This doesn't even address his cultish behavior. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard Posted January 23, 2008 Regardless of what that link says, Taoism in fact is vanishing slowly from China. Examples: http://www.chinaforjesus.com/ http://www.mind-energy.net/archives/248-Is...t-in-China.html I recall a woman originally from Beijing who just migrated to Australia when she asked me (after I told her about my interest and practice of Qigong) the following: But do you really believe in chi? LOL! China is all for this and this: Little interest there is when you have to feed your stomach. 1.3 billion people ready to rock the planet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
