Group Re Translation of Taoist Yoga by C. Luk

[thelerner]

"Stand in dragon stance, while focusing on the moon, and sun, and merge the dragon and the tiger in the lower cauldron and then plunge that into the original cavity of the spirit, convert lead into mercury, and nourish the sacred fetus. "

 

You can argue its watered down or just plain wrong-but this is the kind of area the Healing Tao works with, Winn & Chia territory.

 

'Stand' 'dragon stance'? I wonder if they mean that literally and if there's synchronicity with our long Mabu thread? A standing kanli practice?

 

Sun is usually the heart.? Moon the belly.? Merge them(?) or the elemental organ gods that are represented by the dragon and the tiger into the lower cauldron (very kanli ish).

 

 

Why this thing practically writes itself Input from HT people or older traditions would help.

 

 

 

 

Michael

 

I only got up to Fusion II in the HT system. I have Minke's Fusion I & II CD's that have you spinning paqua's and combining organ gods. I've also worked with the Chi Nei Tsangs kanli guided meditation that builds up heat in the heart, icy cold water in dantien, then shifts them so fire is at the bottom and it melts and steams the water.

 

I've tried to take a more experiential path to alchemical taoism, albeit a slackards one.

[宁]

the formulas and the practice is very specific, and has specific steps on which you can build up practices like the fusion and kan and li. good foundation generally means a good 10 years of mainly study and practice of the basic formulas. there are people that thought these kind of practices go to slow and the results are too little, and they went to java and stuff to get it all right. after a year of practicing eight hours twice a day, got to a good energy level, but the some really bad news made them go into a shock, and died of a heart attack. it made me think more about why the emotional training is so important to mantak.

 

the problem with the formulas is that very fiew people practice them seriously. mantak is a guy that has a lot of fun teaching and making videos and stuff, and makes you think its all piece of cake, all in the bag. but behind it there are practically networks of people involved in deep study, practice and understanding of the daoist legacy. call them what you want, but my oppinion is those people are not dreamers. there is much, and there are many ways to do the same things. if you come across it or not, it depends on how much do you want to invest, time, study, effort... if you dont, you wont see it, and think it doesnt even exist. thats it.

 

on topic, after visiting a couple of forums and listening to all the interpretation of texts and such, i came to the conclusion that is pretty premature to try and elaborate a general map of taoist thought and practice, mainly because it is not an integral and unified system, its more like different threads starting from different points, with different understanding of simmilar aspects, reaching simmilar results.

 

as i once said, it seems that the context is the one that gives the meaning to the terminology. and there are a lot of different contexts in taoism. beginners first try and debate them, but they are simply different ways to do the same thing, and it sometimes takes longer to acheive, sometimes shorter....

 

 

ps: we dont call it HT in Europe. we call it UTS

Edited January 22, 2008 by Little1

[Starjumper]

I was kidding though about installing it -- no need for me to bother

well i am pretty sure that if you could you would give me cancer. but you cant. go practice on your mama.

 

I can give you cancer

 

My teacher taught me how, it's rather simple really. I don't think I'll teach it to anyone though, except possibly for Taomeow.

 

Taomeow was a long time student of a powerful Mao Shan sorceress, learning a secret and extended system. You might be surprised at what she can do. It bears no resemblance to Max's claims for Mao Shan.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Procurator]

well i am pretty sure that if you could you would give me cancer. but you cant. go practice on your mama.

I can give you cancer

 

can you keep it for your parents and your kids, and for yourself?

 

 

 

 

 

Taomeow was a long time student of a powerful Mao Shan sorceress,

yeah madam rabinovitz.

 

Taomeow is HOT.

 

Sizzlin'.

u must be either into necro- ot kopro-, then. well whatever works.

[mwight]

can you keep it for your parents and your kids, and for yourself?

yeah madam rabinovitz.

 

u must be either into necro- ot kopro-, then. well whatever works.

 

wow dude... why are you acting like this?

 

taomeow is totally hot man, and she has a high degree of intelligence, that is the sexiest trait of all.

[thelerner]

Little1 I agree with you - alchemical path is long arduous and best done under the direction of true teacher who's been there. Working too fast and too long w/ bio energies can fry you, a little or a lot. If you're not particularly energy sensitive and dabbling I don't think you're in any huge danger. Course you're not going to gain anything remarkable either.

 

Still, the unremarkable can be worthwhile. I don't 'get' energy from the sun. But I do feel its reflection, a singing within my heart, when I look at it. Same w/ large bodies of water and my kidneys. I don't know how real or useful it is, but its a gift from the small amounts of practice I've done over the years. A resonating, and thats what I wanted, not another cosmic fetus to feed.

 

I was writing to see if I could get the thread back on track, translating Taoist Yoga. An intellectual exercise to bat around possible translations, see if they resonate with anyone. Not to create a program, or improve on it (as if that were possible) but to check our (admittedly low) understanding of an alchemical texts.

 

Its what we do every night, sling the hash, see where it falls.

 

Michael

[Taomeow]

I was writing to see if I could get the thread back on track, translating Taoist Yoga.

Michael

 

Believe it or not, it would be counterproductive if you could. The first rule of a good practice is, don't practice where there's sha' qi present. (Especially if it is deliberately released with malicious intent.) Everything else may be stylistic nuances of greater or lesser importance, but this one is a fundamental.

[Mal]

Sha Qi (pronounced shah chee; meaning "killing or destructive energy)

 

Well that's another one for my glossary I learn something everyday............

[Wayfarer64]

Yeah this thread went wackadoo - but the ignore function is working on the site so the qi aint too f-ed up when negation is negated

 

Balance is easy with a full heart and an open mind

 

just don't step in the dropings of fools and other creatures with nasty habits...anything can be dealt with or ignored as the case warrants,

 

even the Dalai Lama has admitted that he has swatted mosquitos ... first he blows them away with a gentle gust of breath, if they persist stronger breath is exerted, if the insect is still persistent, then even his holiness will protect himself from the dangerous dis-eases that he knows mosquitos may carry and swat the infectious little bug with a prayer of course -with a prayer...

[三江源]

The terminology of Daoist cultivation is not at all sensible or straightforward. It is replete with metaphor and literary allusion. Furthermore, it attempts to capture ineffable experiences in words which (like Laozi says in his first chapter of Dao de jing) is simply impossible.

 

 

ah! I love love love the word 'ineffable'.

 

So lovely to see it being used. props to xuesheng.

 

 

 

 

What has reduced Procurator to a little black spitty thing in the corner? Go and stand in the woods and do some breathing, guy.

[doc benway]

ah! I love love love the word 'ineffable'.

 

So lovely to see it being used. props to xuesheng.

What has reduced Procurator to a little black spitty thing in the corner? Go and stand in the woods and do some breathing, guy.

Thanks cat

It's my favorite new word to use in discussions of spiritual stuff - I "borrowed" it from Alan Watts!

[thelerner]

Bows to Taomeow.

 

quietly moves away

 

 

M.

[Starjumper]

What has reduced Procturator to a little black spitty thing in the corner?

 

His screen name makes people think 'proctologee'.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Procurator]

His screen name makes people think 'proctologee'.

well since you give people cancer...your screen name should make people think "oncologee", no?

Edited January 24, 2008 by Procurator

[Mal]

[Starjumper]

His screen name makes people think 'proctologee'.

well since you give people cancer...your screen name should make people think "oncologee", no?

 

Nope, wrong again, since proctologee means 'victim of proctologist'.

 

Nor do I give people cancer, I only know how to do it. I prefer healing.

[mwight]

Just an update I have the book OCRed to a text file and have been batch replacing some terms. I estimate maybe a month or three on my personal translation to be finished. I may take it further and do a complete rewrite of the book after that. Anyone who can prove they actually own the original book (take a pick of the book next to a current newspaper) is welcome to a copy of my translation when its finished.

[Fire Dragon]

Taoist lexicon, Create a taoist lexicon on this site Options

Switch to: Linear+ Fire Dragon Dec 29 2007, 01:33 AM Post #1

 

 

 

Hello all

 

I like the idea of retranslation of the book by C Luk and is interested in the final retranslation if it ewer is finished. I had a quite similar idea quouting myself:

 

"

Hello all

 

When reading taoist texts there is often some dificulties knowing the exact meaning of the words. How about using this site for creating a lexicon on taoists and perhaps other like buddists terms.

 

If you are interested we have to think about how to do this on the site. Perhaps having different threads for different subjects or words and then having someone taking care of selecting the best explanations of a word.

 

Or perhaps having people in the site to wote for the best explanations and sort them after eachother. I don't know.

 

What do you think about this idea?

 

 

F D

"

 

This was from my thread taoist lexicon from dec 2007.

 

No one did answer on this one.

 

I still think it is a good idea though. To make a lexicon of terms like Mercurie ans steel or to show the similarities betwean vitality spirit and energy and gi, Jing and Shen and others.

 

This could be done on this site. If we systematise the process and have someone responsible for the final results.

 

Of course while working on the retranslation of Luks book we could start from theire and make a sort of lexicon from the terms arriving from the book.

 

Well noone was interested the last time so perhaps not now either.

 

I still like the idea of making Luks book more readable. But Im not after a simplification but more like a clearification. Its perhaps not necessary to retranslate it but more important to clearify and have clear definitions and synonymes to the terms used in the book.

 

This could be done if some people read the book together and help eachother to find the meaniings of the terminology. Of course we would have greate help from people like taomeau that have a high understunding of many of the things describe in the book. And a good backround knowledge from basic taoists sorces like the I ching and tao the ching and others.

 

We could start threads with each paragraph and work through the book together and then mwight could work to create a lexicon of terminology in the book and perhaps retranslate it with more convinient terminology.

 

Sincerely F D

 

 

Sincerely F D

[joeblast]

Good idea, FD. I'm all for reducing bitchery and getting on with it ( holy grail...YES! GET ON WITH IT!)

 

I think the best place to start would be for anyone that has a cloudy understanding of a section or paragraph, just speak up and ask about that particular paragraph. I dont think its worthwhile to retranslate the entire book, although I was also a bit perturbed by some of the english translations (i.e. the user of the english alphabet...seemed to only confuse more since I am getting used to the chinese terms for this stuff.)

[Mal]

Just an update I have the book OCRed to a text file and have been batch replacing some terms. I estimate maybe a month or three on my personal translation to be finished.

 

How goes the translation project?

 

I'm glad I read the Shambala Guide to Taoism as I found Eva's book, along with the Art of the Bedchamber, helpful in casting light on some of those alchemical terms in Taoist Yoga.

[松永道]

 

Stand in dragon stance, while focusing on the moon, and sun, and merge the dragon and the tiger in the lower cauldron and then plunge that into the original cavity of the spirit, convert lead into mercury, and nourish the sacred fetus.

 

...makes no sense to me.

 

 

I'd like to comment on the reasoning behind metaphors in ancient texts. They do serve a purpose. Cultivation is a practice of growing consciousness. This process changes reality. What is real and sensible at one level of consciousness is mythological and symbolic at a lower level of consciousness.

 

Have you ever played scavenger hunt? I did with my girlfriend's family in Czech Republic last winter. Two friends left ahead of us leaving clues in the forest for us to follow. Arrows, riddles in the snow, clues attached to trees. Nothing very difficult. One clue said "find your lunch within 5 meters." We looked in holes, under bushes, and ultimately had to climb a tree. Each clue, in any other context, would have been meaningless. However, the right clue, in the right spot, meant a belly full of delicious potato pancakes.

 

What's the point of the story? Metaphorical texts are like this. Deliberately situational and otherwise inaccessible. They are designed to have no meaning until you have the experience to make sense of them. Once you have that prerequisite experience, the metaphor becomes obvious, and gives you direction to keep going. Clues only make sense in context. Experience is the context.

 

That particular piece of text is loaded. Translate dragon to liver, tiger to lungs, lead to Jing, mercury to qi, etc, and you are still without true context. And indeed you shouldn't worry. This is a clue for later. I could my scavenger hunt clue again here at my desk, and look and look though I might 5 meters around, I'll find no potato pancakes here (no matter how much I wish there were!).

[mwight]

How goes the translation project?

 

I'm glad I read the Shambala Guide to Taoism as I found Eva's book, along with the Art of the Bedchamber, helpful in casting light on some of those alchemical terms in Taoist Yoga.

 

Hi Mal,

 

I worked on it some but I couldn't get it quite to come out the way I wanted to. Even with the terms which I found confusing replaced with their definitions from the glossary, I still find it very hard and cryptic to understand. Such is the nature of engrish. I eventually plan on doing a complete rewrite from the ground up. I will be leaving for a 5 year retreat soon. Might be able to check in once every few months here at the bums when I come to town for supplies. I have been saving up for dried provisions, and brushing up on edible wild plant information. My family owns a cabin near local forest service land about 20 miles the nearest store.

 

I am looking forward to having time to just be without being stressed out to work a full time job and meditate 3-4 hours a day also.

 

I should have plenty of time to work on a retranslation during this time, coming up later this year around December or so. This is going to be a huge undertaking for me, so it might be a few years before it even gets finished.

 

 

I will keep you guys updated though. I wish copyrights weren't so restrictive. I would love to upload this book as a wiki where the entire group could co-edit and revise confusing terms, and wording.

 

I am not sure if a complete rewrite of this manual will be considered plagiarism or not, and have received a large amount of hate mail already threating legal action if I even attempt it. Even though it wont be a for profit project, I am not sure if I will get sued or not if I release it publicly.

Edited April 8, 2008 by mwight

[Mal]

I will be leaving for a 5 year retreat soon.

 

Extra cool, I think I'd go insane, but it sure sounds like fun. Make sure you don't mix up those edible plants

 

I am not sure if a complete rewrite of this manual will be considered plagiarism or not, and have received a large amount of hate mail already threating legal action if I even attempt it.

 

I'm sorry to hear that. Anyhow even if you never get a "finished" re-write, the process of understanding all the terms will be very useful. But you'll probably find that once you get to the end, your explanations are now too simple and long winded for you and you might want to replace them with the old terminology

[clearclouds]

Hi everyone,

 

I may be wrong, but I think this is original Text in Chinese.

 

http://www.daoism.cn/up/data/FJMZH/fjmzh-index.htm