Laotzu (laozi) and one big tree

[Mig]

Does someone knows the origin or the original text in Chinese of this story:

 

Lao Tzu was traveling with his disciples and they came to a forest where hundreds of woodcutters were cutting the trees. The whole forest had been cut except for one big tree with thousands of branches. It was so big that 10,000 persons could sit in its shade.

Lao Tzu asked his disciples to go and inquire why this tree had not been cut. They went and asked the woodcutter and they said, "This tree is absolutely useless. You cannot make anything out of it because every branch has so many knots in it - nothing is straight. You cannot use it as fuel because the smoke is dangerous to the eyes. This tree is absolutely useless, that's why we haven't cut it."

The disciples came back and told Lao Tzu. He laughed said, "Be like this tree. If you are useful you will be cut and you will become furniture in somebody's house. If you are beautiful you will be sold in the market, you will become a commodity. Be like this tree, absolutely useless, and then you will grow big and vast and thousands of people will find shad under you."

[Wu Ming Jen]

I believe it was Chang Tzu story but he does not mention Lao Tzu in the story.  Seems someone made up their own version. Read the original for clarity.

[Mig]

15 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

I believe it was Chang Tzu story but he does not mention Lao Tzu in the story.  Seems someone made up their own version. Read the original for clarity.

Thank you and where in the Zhuang zi is this story?

[Marblehead]

3 hours ago, Mig said:

Thank you and where in the Zhuang zi is this story?

We will get to it in the Mair study.

 

[Stosh]

I told my boss this story once... He told me to get back to work.

[Mig]

7 hours ago, Marblehead said:

We will get to it in the Mair study.

 

Awesome but where do I find that story? Is it in Zhuang zi? What chapter? Or the name of the story? I googled and can't find it.

[Mig]

6 hours ago, Stosh said:

I told my boss this story once... He told me to get back to work.

And the reason why?

[Marblehead]

5 hours ago, Mig said:

Awesome but where do I find that story? Is it in Zhuang zi? What chapter? Or the name of the story? I googled and can't find it.

Well, it seems that we have already discussed that section.  I errored in saying that we would get to it.

 

The original story in the Chuang Tzu is:  

 

[Stosh]

6 hours ago, Mig said:

And the reason why?

'Why ' What?

[Mig]

11 hours ago, Stosh said:

'Why ' What?

why did He tell you to get back to work. ?

[Stosh]

Because I agreed to do work for money.

[Mig]

16 hours ago, Stosh said:

Because I agreed to do work for money.

would you work for nothing?

[cold]

1 hour ago, Mig said:

would you work for nothing?

would you?

[Mig]

17 minutes ago, cold said:

would you?

I won’t,

in this instance regarding the story I’m trying to make sense the moral of the story 

[Stosh]

1 hour ago, Mig said:

would you work for nothing?

I certainly would and in fact do , I bust a hump at what ever I endeavor to do , whether it has any material payoff or not. 

But no , I wouldn't do this job for free unless it had some other value related to it. 

I just cant find a job where I can get paid for sippin whiskey in my underpants and watchin TV.  

[cold]

11 minutes ago, Stosh said:

 

I just cant find a job where I can get paid for sippin whiskey in my underpants and watchin TV.  

 

Doesn't "If at first you fail try, try, try, again", apply under these circumstances?

[Mig]

So what's the moral of this story in plain or colloquial English?

[Stosh]

44 minutes ago, Mig said:

So what's the moral of this story in plain or colloquial English?

You might say I am opposed to this chapter , I don't think the presentation is consistent with some other stuff , and so I prefer to leave it for someone else to render , I wouldn't be kindly to it -as it stands. 

[Mig]

1 hour ago, Stosh said:

You might say I am opposed to this chapter , I don't think the presentation is consistent with some other stuff , and so I prefer to leave it for someone else to render , I wouldn't be kindly to it -as it stands. 

I don't think I said something about your comments or rendition. It's okay if you don't want though I don't understand the reason

[Stosh]

1 hour ago, Mig said:

I don't think I said something about your comments or rendition. It's okay if you don't want though I don't understand the reason

Oh, I got befuddled , my bad. I was looking at the Mair chapter just a moment earlier. 

One cant presume that an attribute is good , or bad , without considering the circumstance.

Also .. 

Uselessness vs useful ,, refers to "who exactly is the beneficiary?" ,, answer -- the end consumer. 

 

Does man properly serve 'the state' ? Or,  is the intent ,that the citizens, are the end consumer, who is to benefit ? 

The preamble of our constitution  defines that the institution of the United States was to benefit , We, the people...to  provide for the common ,, yadda yadda 

Not,   We the people , in order for a king or state to exist,  have decided to enslave ourselves to that end. 

This excerpt actually branches out in many directions , suggesting one examine the purpose of ones life. But also that one might attract friends by simply being themselves, feed a nation by making ones living , and so forth.  

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

5 hours ago, Mig said:

I won’t,

in this instance regarding the story I’m trying to make sense the moral of the story 

The story speaks to the concept of "useful/useless".

 

[Rara]

On 07/01/2018 at 11:19 PM, Marblehead said:

We will get to it in the Mair study.

 

 

Sorry, MH. I wasn't able to keep up but well done for keeping this going!

[Rara]

On 08/01/2018 at 0:17 PM, Marblehead said:

Well, it seems that we have already discussed that section.  I errored in saying that we would get to it.

 

The original story in the Chuang Tzu is:  

 

 

Isn't there one in the outer chapters that resembles the OP a bit more? Might take a look and get back to you.

[Rara]

On 09/01/2018 at 7:48 PM, Mig said:

So what's the moral of this story in plain or colloquial English?

 

If you are being used/abused in your life, you are being exploited for the value that people see in you that will only be for their gain, as far as the bigger picture is concerned.

 

If you are "useless", you will be left alone in this regard.

 

But notice how the tree in the story does have some use still? It's just those that might want to kill it and use it for themselves, didn't. Therefore, it lived to good age and provided good shade.

 

Be useless, my friend

Edited January 14, 2018 by Rara
I can't type for s***

[Rara]

2 hours ago, Rara said:

 

Isn't there one in the outer chapters that resembles the OP a bit more? Might take a look and get back to you.

 

Ok, it's the start of Chapter 20 where Zhuangzi is the protagonist and this is summed up pretty much in a paragraph. It then goes on to use a different scenario where this is then compared to the killing of a "useless" goose - the the moral goes off on a slight tangent.

 

There's another cool story on this, literally just before this one in Chapter 4 of ZZ. Worth a read!