Bitcoin and Cryptocurrencies

[futuredaze]

I am surprised there hasn't really been any talk of this here (at least, not that I've seen).

 

Is anyone else really interested in cryptocurrencies, blockchain technology, and the ways in which they can change society?

 

I started following it last year, and invested a bit - mostly in Ethereum and Litecoin.  Partially, I wanted to make some money, but I also really believed in this idea of a decentralized universal currency that can be sent anywhere privately, quickly, cheaply is really transformative for human interaction.

 

Unfortunately, Bitcoin has recently been compromised, slowly infiltrated by pro-centralization forces (in association with the company Blockstream) -- and as a result it is now slow and expensive.  If this group was trying  to destroy Bitcoin, they are doing a good job!

 

One of the benefits of Bitcoin's original design was that it could be "forked" -- or split into two currencies.  Bitcoin Cash is the more decentralized version.  If I were to send you $50 of Bitcoin, it would cost at least $10 for transaction fees, maybe more like $20-25... whereas to send that on Bitcoin Cash it would cost 4 cents.  Not to mention, the transaction would take second(s) on Bitcoin Cash, but many minutes, or more likely hours, on Bitcoin.

 

Then you have Ethereum that is not currencies, but a platform that runs decentralized apps and smart contracts.  If you don't know what those are, do some searching since there are videos/texts that explain them better than I can.  I am really excited in the future of Ethereum.

 

Just wondering if any other Bums are interested in Cryptocurrencies.  I'd be happy to give some advice and feedback, but I don't want to give investing advice per-se, it is best for people to invest in technology they believe in and do their own research.  Since this tech is so new, getting into the right ones could be very lucrative, like investing in Amazon or Tesla years ago.  You will get people saying "Cryptos are in a bubble" which might be true to some extent, but I think long-term we are still in a very early stage and investing in practical coins could be a smart move. Still, more than just making money, I really am interested in the practical use of many of these coins.  It is a very exciting time, almost like the early stages of internet.

Edited January 13, 2018 by futuredaze

[rainbowvein]

More importantly, how can (and will) cryptocurrencies affect people's spiritual lives?

 

Everything has an energy profile.

Cryptocurrencies have energy profiles.

If you are a serious cultivator, you must be cautious about how you make your money, in what you invest.

You will read on on messageboards from those who made money early on in crypto, how empty some feel. Even though they are now wealthy.

 

This is a serious topic to consider.

 

Quote

The Rich Man

17 As Jesus was starting out on his way to Jerusalem, a man came running up to him, knelt down, and asked, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked. “Only God is truly good. 19 But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. You must not cheat anyone. Honor your father and mother.’” 20 “Teacher,” the man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.”

 

21 Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 At this the man’s face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.

 

23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the Kingdom of God!” 24 This amazed them. But Jesus said again, “Dear children, it is very hard to enter the Kingdom of God. 25 In fact, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!”

 

[Aetherous]

I'm hearing the news this year, and seriously wishing I had listened to that weird internet person I encountered like 5 years ago talking about investing in Bitcoin.

 

edit: I'm choosing not to invest now...it's good to invest when costs are low, not when they're doing really well. Although, it could take off in the decades to come.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Aetherous

[thelerner]

Paradoxically it'd be a better investment if it held its price or went up (or down) in a slow predictable manner.  That's what a currency, alt or not is supposed to do.  The way the price behaves means its not fulfilling its design.  Rather its a speculative, erratic and well.. balloony.

 

Yet there's times dumb money beats smart.  This is one.  If a person is willing to gamble with money they don't mind losing 50% of then.. maybe?  but if you can't afford to lose half quickly, don't.  In truth the regular old stock market has some good wind behind it.  Slow and steady wins races. 

Edited January 14, 2018 by thelerner

[futuredaze]

4 hours ago, rainbowvein said:

More importantly, how can (and will) cryptocurrencies affect people's spiritual lives?

 

Everything has an energy profile.

Cryptocurrencies have energy profiles.

If you are a serious cultivator, you must be cautious about how you make your money, in what you invest.

You will read on on messageboards from those who made money early on in crypto, how empty some feel. Even though they are now wealthy.

 

This is a serious topic to consider.

 

 

Just like paper money, cryptos are a tool, like a hammer.

 

A hammer could be used to attack someone or to build a house.  It depends on how it is used.

 

True, any obsession with money, wealth, etc. is missing the point of spiritual practice.  but, in my opinion, Cryptocurrencies present a promising alternative to fiat currency.

[Aetherous]

14 minutes ago, futuredaze said:

promising alternative to fiat currency

 

The implications are interesting, in that it's finally a global currency (is that a good thing?), which isn't subject to harmful fluctuations of a local currency (that's a good thing).

[thelerner]

17 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

The implications are interesting, in that it's finally a global currency (is that a good thing?), which isn't subject to harmful fluctuations of a local currency (that's a good thing).

I don't know, if local currencies fluctuated like bitcoin does, it'd be disastrous.   Hyperinflationary and a host of other problems.

 

To me the most interesting global currency is the one we have in our pockets now.. the credit card- Visa, Mastercard.  Amazing stuff, useful throughout the world; buys, sells and converts easily and effortless.   It's not there for speculation rather its an amazingly convenient tool for trade. 

 

 

 

 

[joeblast]

People around here should have known, the moment sean had the "donate bitcoin" link at the top of the page years ago

[thelerner]

Its infamous to hear people lament they spent 2 bitcoins on a pizza, and hear someone else chime in, yeah, except I bought 2 pizzas for 4!  

 

Bitcoin spent all of 2010 under a buck, first 3 months of 2011 under $2.. then it exploded. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by thelerner

[Aetherous]

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitfinex/btcusd

 

Price has dropped a lot today. This link is cool because you can watch the price fluctuate in your browser's tab.

 

(seems that the price on there is not the same as on other platforms...I don't know what I'm talking about with this stuff, so don't listen to me)

Edited January 19, 2018 by Aetherous

[Aetherous]

Let's talk more about this.

I've decided to invest a small amount soon, and want to do a mix of bitcoin and various alt coins.

What exchanges do you personally use...and what ones are something people should avoid (due to them holding your money, losing it, etc)?

 

What alt coins do you think are a good idea? It makes sense to me to find a bunch that are super cheap and invest a little (essentially money that you're okay with losing) in each.

...

Some potentially useful info: avoiding Coinbase fees with GDAX. Using this method, one can get bitcoin, bitcoin cash, ethereum, and litecoin.

 

...

 

Guys, feel free to school me if you think any info is foolish.

[joeblast]

The #1 thing - keep your own wallet, DO NOT store your coins on an exchange!  Store it on a removable thumb drive that you can physically secure.

 

And since you will only have a small amount, you probably dont need to worry about hackers exploiting the Intel/NSA openings and steal your enc keys.

 

If you did, then I'd be telling you to get a 10 year old laptop with an AMD processor in it...

[C T]

What is believed to be the first ever Cc heist occurred in the UK couple of days ago

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/28/britains-first-bitcoin-heist-trader-forced-gunpoint-transfer/

 

 

 

[joeblast]

6 minutes ago, C T said:

What is believed to be the first ever Cc heist occurred in the UK couple of days ago

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/28/britains-first-bitcoin-heist-trader-forced-gunpoint-transfer/

 

beans compared to what happened at places like mt gox - that's the reason why you dont leave your wallet at the exchange!

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-28/mt-gox-files-bankruptcy-after-473-million-bitcoins-disappeared

 

 

another thing to note is that most bitcoins have already been mined.

[Aetherous]

So I thought that using a bot to trade altcoins against Bitcoin seemed smart...it wasn't. It's called Profit Trailer.

It works roughly as advertised at first...week one I made 5%, and things were looking glorious at that pace...but then soon enough it's making trades that go nowhere...trades that sit at -30%, and which cause your funds to be used up so your profits dwindle to 0.

I wanted to post about this bot because there are a lot of youtubers out there who aren't as honest about the results with it. It's not a scam, it is actually a bot that works with an exchange, and the only way they're making money off of you is through your purchase of their computer program.

The thing with trading BTC against altcoins is...when BTC is going down in value, the altcoins are also going down in value. When BTC is rising in value, the altcoins are losing value against BTC and going down as a result. When the market is basically even, there's not enough volatility to day trade successfully this way, so it will buy at bad positions, and have a hard time selling. There are also times when a coin gets pumped up, and the bot ends up buying high.

 

The main problem is that the bot isn't smart...it just follows one buying strategy, so it will make a trade at a time that you might not otherwise choose to do so (if you could look at multiple candlestick time periods simultaneously, for instance, it would help not make the mistakes that the bot does).

I chose to sell at a loss of about $100 today, due to the problems inherent in auto trading alts vs BTC. The bot itself cost me roughly $160, on top of that (at the time it was purchased...today it's worth more, because it's only sold in BTC).

Luckily, BTC is going up in value so pretty soon I'll break even...and this was extra money I was playing around with anyway.

But yes, I advise people to not use these auto trading bots.

[thelerner]

The idea of an alternative semi-underground currency is a decent one.  But the point of it is to hold value steadily, not be a vehicle of speculation.  It's ironic that's what they've become.  

 

Too often newbies in any kind of trading forget the value of diversification and risk control.  I know I did, my first foray into the investment world had me putting all my money into one stock, buying and selling. Success too, for awhile but odds catch up.  I'd have done much better diversifying and not being so greedy, ie I moved on to buying on margin.   It's not just eggs in one basket, it's balancing all your eggs in a tiny nest.

 

The worst thing that can happen to a person walking into a casino is winning big at first.  They get the idea it's easy or that they're lucky.  It can set them up for an expensive bad trip or lifetime of losses.  Versus the person who breaks even and sees whats going on with the odds.  

 

These cryptocurrencies are fragile and ethereal.  Invest if you want.. but control your losses, don't get emotional or suckered in.  It's a horse race where the horses don't really exist. 

 

 

Let's see if I can offer any semi-solid advice.. Looking at charts, imo, volume is as important as price.  It's part of the pulse.  I like to think of it like piano music, price is the rising or falling of the notes, yet volume is how hard the keys are played. 

 

I don't do day trading anymore, but I like to see if I can hear the music of individual stocks, and the price is rising,  yet the intensity (volume) is falling, I reckon the tune(& price) will settle lower.   Looking at the daily movement of bitcoin I see that phenomena happening now. 

 

That's one of my things.. certainly its not precise, but neither is music, yet sometimes, there's a predictive flow.  Create your own metaphor, see how well it matches the reality of the movement.  Don't trust it completely, the market gods punish hubris, but trust it a little bit, give it some action.  See how it does. 

Edited March 6, 2018 by thelerner

[joeblast]

That they've become a means of speculation is quite purposeful.  There are actors purposefully using buy sell strategies to make crytpos be a wild ride roller coaster - and for that explicit reason.  Part of it is because people know what a con job central banking is and how badly manipulated and counterfeit it is, and cryptos have a mechanism to thwart counterfeiting.  Since every BIS attached entity exists as part of the counterfeit network, those who own the BIS are not pleased at all about having competition for their counterfeiting operations.

 

I wouldnt ever try to have my own bot competing against other bots with exponentially more processing power and infinitesimally less network access time.  Milliseconds loses to microseconds easily.

[joeblast]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-05/crypto-exchanges-raking-in-billions-emerge-as-kings-of-coins

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-07/cryptocurrencies-should-be-regulated-commmodities-judge-rules

Edited March 7, 2018 by joeblast

[Aetherous]

I don't know about the veracity of the information on this site: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-08/rockefeller-familys-3bn-vc-fund-unveils-plans-invest-crypto but if true, then some big money is going into this stuff right now.

[Owledge]

What I noticed is that around the time when the bubble became obvious, everywhere on the net people started advertising for it, surely totally not for selfish reasons having anything to do with wanting to sell high, hah.

Sorry, but it's just too obvious from a psychology standpoint. Why didn't all these people go on such an ad ('info') campaign much earlier, one has to wonder. ;-)

I call it buying into a system. Certain processes then run on autopilot, very predictable, since one becomes unfree.

So much for 'revolutionary' technologies/systems freeing people.

[Starjumper]

Interesting I just saw this.  I was suspicious of imaginary digital money, then I noticed that everyone who bought bitcoin at the initial offering is a millionaire now. 

 

I know all the possible fail scenarios so don't bother me with that.

 

I found that there is a new cryp currency being offered and it is at one cent.  It is also backed by gold so it isn't all imaginary money like the other ones.  It is put out by the company that makes the paper money with gold threads in it so the bills have actuall true value based on gold.  https://www.karatbars.com

 

The crypto coins will be backed by $5 of gold by mid 2020, so it's pretty solid.   From one cent to five dollar increase is a 500 times increase.  Actually I don't care about that so much except that it guarantees that the coins will increase in value  much more than that because people will see them as 'user friendly' and safer.  https://karatbank.io    

 

 

 

As you can see from the website link, you can buy these coins online, but the price will be 8 cents per coin.

 

There is a way to get the coins at one cent, but it requires a long and difficult process that involves buying Karatgold gold and then transferring it to the coin purchase, it takes about an hour and being able to share screens with your helper, which requires downloading Zoom.us software.  You would need to be guided through the process AND, it appears that today is the last day that you will be able to do that.

 

This is a pyramid type marketing scheme, which means that each person upline gets a little bit of your sign up fee, which is around $175.  That is the reason I am telling you about this.  If you don't like it then get lost.  Even if you sign up using the website I listed you will still have an upline, it's unavoidable, but the coins will cost you 8 cents each.  Using a pyramid marketing scheme is a brilliant move because it makes things go really fast.  In fact I don't care much about the pyramic aspect of this, it's the coins themselves which are important to me.  You will need to have $175 to get your membership/wallet, and then you can purchase coins for your wallet.

 

Sooo, if anyone is interested you need to act fast.  You can send me a PM and if my upline helper is not too busy he may be able to get you signed up today.

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Starjumper

[Owledge]

LOL, yeah right.

There's a reason why pyramid marketing has a bad rep. It, and especially together with the crypto currency hype now, is a mass harnessing of the same greed-based profit euphoria you find on the stock market. Just that with the pyramid marketing the early adopter benefit isn't natural and based on good intentions, but a lure in order to gain more from others doing the same later. It's a sign of desperation/ruthlessness.

One thing that can be trusted in our human society is that wherever massive money profit is anticipated, promised or aimed for, the worst of human character will be harnessed in a giant wave.

One possible outcome could be that this world continues to manifest the fear that eventually kills the people that are wiser. Another could be that crypto currency will very soon be forcibly regulated. In any case, corrupting influences will grow from various sides, in a control frenzy, and the element of sincerely good intentions that existed in the beginning, as so often when an endeavor involves more and more money and power, will become irrelevant. I am observing this corrupting influence in all kinds of sectors, killing good spirit.

The basic problem with hailing crypto currency as if it was something revolutionary is that socially it is not. It cannot transform society because it's just some new damn fiat money. And when there's a claim that it is backed by gold, well, history teaches us how trustworthy such a claim is, and what many complexities are involved in that and in any kind of 'promise'. The really interesting facts are always those not excitedly advertized.

It sounds like just another of the many startup hypes. Naturally they all try to make their idea look amazing, then collect lots of money in one big push before people can start to realize that it's not working out well.

There's also (currently) no limit on how many crypto currencies can be created, so that boosts the bubble even further. Classic inflation problem. Bitcoin had such value increases because it was the first. There was no competition and people like to flock to the established. Now there's a fancy new one all the time, so it's a booming market where many emerge and many fail, and all are like "We're crypto!!! Why aren't you on board yet?!"

Edited May 20, 2018 by Owledge

[Starjumper]

I see you're very observant,  That's all very clever but old news, negative, pessimistic, loser oriented, missed the point entirely.  I also said I'm not interested in hearing that shit over and over again.  

 

Maybe you missed the part about the people who got Bitcoin at the initial offering being millionaires now and how it's a really cheap gamble.  Like I said I don't really give a damn about being upline from anyone, that's nothing.  i'm just presenting a new and improved cryp that has most of the loopholes plugged.

 

You may continue spouting pessimism and gloom now, I alread got my coins, cheap, and we'll see how it goes, I expect it to be a real life saver for me.

[Owledge]

What kind of a life saved if others are devalued? It will require a gradual curbing of empathy and awareness.

Winning in Wild West capitalism makes everybody a loser. But that takes foresight and high discipline to see.

I'm just tired of survival of the fittest. It is not healthy to succeed in an unhealthy environment, especially when deluding oneself about what it brings into the world. And personally it is very detrimental to my spirit, so I am caught between a rock and a hard place, because I see too much consequence of action to choose a selfish path. Opportunities for a karmically positive calling, if you will, are naturally rare in such an environment. I have been too optimistic about that, actually, and got painfully disappointed by the extent of phoniness, playing pretend, wearing masks.

 

As Adyashanti said so well: There's no such thing as a better idea in that system. We tried that for thousands of years.

 

(Much of what people do is merely working with what's there, being reactionary, which is easy, convenient, but people confuse it with being difficult because they invest effort into it. And that's contagious, oppressive.)

Edited May 20, 2018 by Owledge

[Starjumper]

That's all fine, but the system is here anyway, and it's not going away any time soon.  In fact I'm not the kind of person who raises myself at the expense of others, and I'm not so sure that this thing is doing that. I've gotten screwed over by the banks and I see this as kind of 'outside' that system.   If I was sure I may rethink my position but for now it's really simple - I need the money and it looked like a very good gamble.  Anyway, most people are reluctant to get into it and the window closes at midnight.

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Starjumper