Zen Practitioner

[lifeaftercheckmate]

Hello. My name is Andi. I have followed a few spiritual teachers, read books, and listened to lectures for years now. I knew many things. I had much knowledge. A couple months ago, my beliefs were totally annihilated after a crushing and disappointing religious experience. I found myself with no beliefs and no idea what was what. That was a beginning. Shortly after that, while listening to a lecture by Zen teacher Adyashanti, I had a striking realization. We are not humans experiencing consciousness; we are consciousness masquerading as humans. I was stunned with the force of this awakening. Since then everything has gone topsy turvy. I have no idea which way is up. I have no idea what I'm doing with my life. I almost don't even exist, it seems, and I have no more drive or motivation for most anything in my life. This is most distressing because I have always been a driven, strong, passionate person with many causes and convictions...now nothing seems to matter. I've read and heard to be still, to let go, to rest in the unknowing, but the practice has not dropped from my head to my heart and I struggle and I am confused and afraid as parts of me fall away and literally just die off. I didn't realize that enlightenment meant giving up the "good" along with the "bad," and now it's too late. Most friends, my partner, my therapist, they have no idea what to do with me now. I'm feeling alone (which I know is utterly silly because there is no separation, and yet that fearful feeling remains). I'm here at Dao Bums looking for support, direction, a reference point, something that tells me which way is up and which way is down...and I'm most afraid that none of those things exist. Thank you all for this space.

[Marblehead]

Hello, lifeaftercheckmate and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Marblehead and the TDB team

 

 

Hi Andi,

 

Sounds to me like you went totally into the Mystery (Mystic) and let go of the Manifest (physical reality).  We need to harmonize the two.  Join in the discussions that appear to talk of your concerns.

 

You are welcome to jump right in ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forms to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Marblehead

[Limahong]

25 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Sounds to me like you went totally into the Mystery (Mystic) and let go of the Manifest (physical reality).  We need to harmonize the two.  Join in the discussions that appear to talk of your concerns.

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

Before I respond to Andi, can I clear this with you?

- Mystery (Mystic) aka Spiritual?

- Manifest (physical reality) aka Secular?

 

- LimA

 

 

[lifeaftercheckmate]

Harmozine. That's it. I read a story of a Zen student who went to his master and exclaimed, "I am nothing!" The master smacked the student over the head with his walking stick and said, "What hurts then?" I have not reconciled the two. The nothingness is big enough. I haven't tapped the everything yet.

[Lost in Translation]

Hello Andi,

 

I recommend pursuing mindfulness at this time. Spend time simply perceiving, feeling, and being present. Avoid judgements. Good, bad, I like, I don't like - they won't help you right now. Let yourself feel. Don't try to articulate. Words will come later.

 

And always, welcome.

[Seatle185]

Welcome to the forum , there are definately members here that can offer good support and advice. 

 

You might find this thread interesting:

 

 

[Marblehead]

11 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

Before I respond to Andi, can I clear this with you?

- Mystery (Mystic) aka Spiritual?

- Manifest (physical reality) aka Secular?

 

- LimA

 

 

Yes, it could be phrased that way.  Physical reality vs spiritual, what?, mentality?

 

[Jeff]

Hi Andi.

 

I do not mean to be rude, but what you are describing is residing at the 3rd chakra (sense of self) and the beginning of an opening at the heart (4th chakra). It is kind of like your mind is opening to a new level of consciousness, but don’t yet have the energy to support it. That “loneliness” is sort of your ego/sense of self freaking out. The key at this level is not more self reflection, but about connecting more into the world. Play with children, get a puppy, maybe do some charity work in your community. Engage, love and care about others. Open your heart wide.

 

if you are looking for spiritual practices, my recommendation is that you focus more on energy movement ones, then simple forms of quiet meditation.

 

Again, I apologize if I have overstepped with my comments.

 

Best,

Jeff

[lifeaftercheckmate]

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

Hi Andi.

 

I do not mean to be rude, but what you are describing is residing at the 3rd chakra (sense of self) and the beginning of an opening at the heart (4th chakra). It is kind of like your mind is opening to a new level of consciousness, but don’t yet have the energy to support it. That “loneliness” is sort of your ego/sense of self freaking out. The key at this level is not more self reflection, but about connecting more into the world. Play with children, get a puppy, maybe do some charity work in your community. Engage, love and care about others. Open your heart wide.

 

if you are looking for spiritual practices, my recommendation is that you focus more on energy movement ones, then simple forms of quiet meditation.

 

Again, I apologize if I have overstepped with my comments.

 

Best,

Jeff

 

Thank you so much for your suggestions. That makes so much sense. For the last month and a half or so, there has been an almost constant burning and tightness right over my heart chakra. It's almost like heartburn without the pain. I do yoga nidra and qigong sometimes. Maybe I ought to rededicate myself to those practices in an effort to help balance and open the energy.

 

 My heart has become contracted. As a recovering addict myself, I also mentor women who are working on getting off drugs and putting their life back together. I've never been one to pull punches. I don't sugarcoat things to make people feel better especially when they're engaging in dangerous or distructive behavior. Lately though, I have become very crass. I saw a lot of deaths from drugs and a few were close to me last year. I'd say about 75% of my life is dedicated to this program that helps addicts, but I have felt burned out and withdrawn lately. Do you think that doing energy work can help rejuvenate that heart energy?

[lifeaftercheckmate]

10 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

Hello Andi,

 

I recommend pursuing mindfulness at this time. Spend time simply perceiving, feeling, and being present. Avoid judgements. Good, bad, I like, I don't like - they won't help you right now. Let yourself feel. Don't try to articulate. Words will come later.

 

And always, welcome.

 

Thank you. I am wide open to suggestions. I will do this.

[Jeff]

13 minutes ago, lifeaftercheckmate said:

 

Thank you so much for your suggestions. That makes so much sense. For the last month and a half or so, there has been an almost constant burning and tightness right over my heart chakra. It's almost like heartburn without the pain. I do yoga nidra and qigong sometimes. Maybe I ought to rededicate myself to those practices in an effort to help balance and open the energy.

 

 My heart has become contracted. As a recovering addict myself, I also mentor women who are working on getting off drugs and putting their life back together. I've never been one to pull punches. I don't sugarcoat things to make people feel better especially when they're engaging in dangerous or distructive behavior. Lately though, I have become very crass. I saw a lot of deaths from drugs and a few were close to me last year. I'd say about 75% of my life is dedicated to this program that helps addicts, but I have felt burned out and withdrawn lately. Do you think that doing energy work can help rejuvenate that heart energy?

 

That "burning and tightness" is how your mind is translating that feeling of trying to open your heart (space/chakra) more. Sort of like your subconscious translating it into something physical for you to notice.

 

Very beautiful that you are working to help addicts, but when your heart starts to open like that, it is common to get caught up with other peoples stuff, which then sort of resonates with your own issues and fears.  In more taoist terms, it is like the energy comes in and gets stuck, without the balancing transmission (or going back out).

 

Yes, energy practices will help. But, things like playing with carefree little children or puppies/dogs, will help a lot too.  It is more about sort of carefree giving/tranmission/playing then it is about "helping". Not really "doing", more like just simply residing and loving. Laugh at life and more importantly yourself.  If you can laugh at yourself, then you can relax and love yourself too.  

[lifeaftercheckmate]

1 minute ago, Jeff said:

 

That "burning and tightness" is how your mind is translating that feeling of trying to open your heart (space/chakra) more. Sort of like your subconscious translating it into something physical for you to notice.

 

Very beautiful that you are working to help addicts, but when your heart starts to open like that, it is common to get caught up with other peoples stuff, which then sort of resonates with your own issues and fears.  In more taoist terms, it is like the energy comes in and gets stuck, without the balancing transmission (or going back out).

 

Yes, energy practices will help. But, things like playing with carefree little children or puppies/dogs, will help a lot too.  It is more about sort of carefree giving/tranmission/playing then it is about "helping". Not really "doing", more like just simply residing and loving. Laugh at life and more importantly yourself.  If you can laugh at yourself, then you can relax and love yourself too.  

 

 Duly noted. I'm going to tell my wife when she gets home that I need a new puppy. lol All joking aside, what you are saying makes perfect sense. My "little kid energy" -- that free, innocent, fascinated, in love with life energy -- is all tied up in knots.

[Limahong]

6 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Physical reality vs spiritual, what?, mentality?

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

1. Physical reality + mentality => secular

2. Knowledge + willpower + action => spiritual

3. Secular versus spiritual

 

David Abram Antin (February 1, 1932 – October 11, 2016) was an American poet, critic and performance artist

 

- LimA

Edited January 19, 2018 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[Bud Jetsun]

On 1/19/2018 at 8:25 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

 

 Duly noted. I'm going to tell my wife when she gets home that I need a new puppy. lol All joking aside, what you are saying makes perfect sense. My "little kid energy" -- that free, innocent, fascinated, in love with life energy -- is all tied up in knots.

 

 

No energy has ever been tied up, it all perfectly behaves as energy behaves. 

 

No amount of puppies results in recognition or appreciation of inherent mindfulness.  The karma of taking resources and life from the closed loop system to support captive animals for distraction/entertainment will not lighten burdens in yourself, only increases speed in the race to extinction of all life. 

 

Awakening is recognizing one's whole life has never had another being think or act for oneself from conception to one's last breath.  Whatever aspects of consciousness you recognize inside yourself is only a new label for the same ego delusions if it's capable of suffering. 

 

Accept awareness of inherent mindfulness, and recognize no other being can experience or appreciate  your reality for you.  Through mindfully choosing to live compassionate choices in thoughts and actions towards oneself, choosing to suffer becomes  unnecessary throughout all possible arising events and conditions. 

 

Enlightenment is not a giving up of good or bad, it's an unbreakable and genuine appreciation of the real exactly as it may be, irregardless of conditional or situational states. Your true Self has always and will always experience this.  Confused fantasies of little self alone remains the source and persisting mechanism choosing to suffer what simply Is. 

 

With each breath in, it's always been optionally available to appreciate the precious life supporting gift enabling one's fleeting moment to continue. With each breath out its always been optionally available to appreciate the precious gift of gas exchange enabling one's fleeting moment to continue. 

 

Each being remains precisely as liberated and self-empowered as they choose in this one fleeting moment between conception and death.  

 

Unlimited Love, 

-Bud

Edited January 20, 2018 by Bud Jetsun

[Lost in Translation]

1 hour ago, Bud Jetsun said:

 

 

No energy has ever been tied up, it's all perfectly behaves as energy behaves. 

 

No amount of puppies results in recognition or appreciation of inherent mindfulness.  The karma of taking resources and life from the closed loop system to support captive animals for distraction/entertainment will not lighten burdens in yourself, only increases speed in the race to extinction of all life. 

 

Awakening is recognizing one's whole life has never had another being think or act for oneself from conception to one's last breath.  Whatever aspects of consciousness you recognize inside yourself is only a new label for the same ego delusions if it's capable of suffering. 

 

Accept awareness of inherent mindfulness, and recognize no other being can experience or appreciate  your reality for you.  Through mindfully choosing to live compassionate choices in thoughts and actions towards oneself, choosing to suffer becomes  unnecessary throughout all possible arising events and conditions. 

 

Enlightenment is not a giving up of good or bad, it's an unbreakable and genuine appreciation of the real exactly as it may be, irregardless of conditional or situational states. Your true Self has always and will always experience this.  Confused fantasies of little self alone remains the source and persisting mechanism choosing to suffer what simply Is. 

 

With each breath in, it's always been optionally available to appreciate the precious life supporting gift enabling one's fleeting moment to continue. With each breath out its always been optionally available to appreciate the precious gift of gas exchange enabling one's fleeting moment to continue. 

 

Each being remains precisely as liberated and self-empowered as they choose in this one fleeting moment between conception and death.  

 

Unlimited Love, 

-Bud

 

Respectfully, I very much like what you have said but I find it difficult to follow your prose. Could you please explain this in plainer language?

 

Thanks!

[moment]

On 1/18/2018 at 11:19 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

We are not humans experiencing consciousness; we are consciousness masquerading as humans. I was stunned with the force of this awakening. Since then everything has gone topsy turvy. I have no idea which way is up. I have no idea what I'm doing with my life. I almost don't even exist, it seems, and I have no more drive or motivation for most anything in my life. This is most distressing because I have always been a driven, strong, passionate person with many causes and convictions...now nothing seems to matter. I've read and heard to be still, to let go, to rest in the unknowing, but the practice has not dropped from my head to my heart and I struggle and I am confused and afraid as parts of me fall away and literally just die off. I didn't realize that enlightenment meant giving up the "good" along with the "bad," and now it's too late. Most friends, my partner, my therapist, they have no idea what to do with me now. I'm feeling alone (which I know is utterly silly because there is no separation, and yet that fearful feeling remains). I'm here at Dao Bums looking for support, direction, a reference point, something that tells me which way is up and which way is down...and I'm most afraid that none of those things exist. Thank you all for this space.

 

You have gone into a new winter season.  This is very important because it signals a spring coming up.

Edited July 6, 2019 by moment
incomplete

[Limahong]

3 hours ago, moment said:

New Winters are every bit as important as Spring, Summer and Fall.  It is a sure sign that you are growing.

 

Hi moment,

 

Natural cycles of life. Winter is always there waiting - so are Spring, Summer and Fall.

 

Living is not linear?

 

- LimA

[moment]

On 1/20/2018 at 2:48 AM, Limahong said:

Hi moment,

 

Natural cycles of life. Winter is always there waiting - so are Spring, Summer and Fall.

 

Living is not linear?

 

- LimA

How many dark periods have you had Lima?

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by moment

[Limahong]

2 minutes ago, moment said:

Many questions, eh?

 

Hi moments,

 

Yes. Some I have answers, some no - maybe later? Broadly life is a question - without permanent answers(s).

 

But we have moments...

 

 

A great weekend.

 

-LimA

[moment]

15 minutes ago, Limahong said:

A great weekend.

 

You too!

[Spotless]

On 1/18/2018 at 11:19 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

Hello. My name is Andi. I have followed a few spiritual teachers, read books, and listened to lectures for years now. I knew many things. I had much knowledge. A couple months ago, my beliefs were totally annihilated after a crushing and disappointing religious experience. I found myself with no beliefs and no idea what was what. That was a beginning. Shortly after that, while listening to a lecture by Zen teacher Adyashanti, I had a striking realization. We are not humans experiencing consciousness; we are consciousness masquerading as humans. I was stunned with the force of this awakening. Since then everything has gone topsy turvy. I have no idea which way is up. I have no idea what I'm doing with my life. I almost don't even exist, it seems, and I have no more drive or motivation for most anything in my life. This is most distressing because I have always been a driven, strong, passionate person with many causes and convictions...now nothing seems to matter. I've read and heard to be still, to let go, to rest in the unknowing, but the practice has not dropped from my head to my heart and I struggle and I am confused and afraid as parts of me fall away and literally just die off. I didn't realize that enlightenment meant giving up the "good" along with the "bad," and now it's too late. Most friends, my partner, my therapist, they have no idea what to do with me now. I'm feeling alone (which I know is utterly silly because there is no separation, and yet that fearful feeling remains). I'm here at Dao Bums looking for support, direction, a reference point, something that tells me which way is up and which way is down...and I'm most afraid that none of those things exist. Thank you all for this space.

Congratulations!

 

This has nothing to do with your mind and a new level of consciousness.

 

Awakening is coming into the Presence that has always been.

 

residual patterns of the noise of mind have fallen away - both "good" and "bad".

 

There remain residual patterns and they can pull you hard back into the noise and frequencies of sleep/angst/doing/position/inertia/cause/savior.

 

Learning to abide in Presence is not difficult.

It is however very helpful to know someone that can help sort this out a bit.

 

clairvoyance simply does not "see" this - and so it will come up with fragmented possibilities- but they will lead you back to the illusion and not abidance in Presence.

 

Therapists will offer sedatives and tell you it is stress related.

 

Friends will get you started on a project and suggest simply moving on in old motions until you get the groove back.

 

You have pulled aside the veil - it is actually only just a beginning.

 

Hopefully it will not become "an experience of Awakening" - Abidance is something entirely different.

 

You are welcome to PM me.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Spotless

[Bud Jetsun]

On 1/19/2018 at 0:49 PM, Lost in Translation said:

 

Respectfully, I very much like what you have said but I find it difficult to follow your prose. Could you please explain this in plainer language?

 

Thanks!

 

In compassion for all beings liberation:

 

Only a single beings choice enables appreciation of what may be.  

 

No pattern of pixels, ink, or noise can substitute as the choice, and no one else can make it for you. 

 

The shadows of belief, thought, and understanding vanish in a flicker of the light of reality which has always been burning. 

 

Unlimited Love,

-Bud

[Limahong]

On 1/19/2018 at 3:19 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

I had much knowledge.

 

Hi Andi,

 

The more I know, the more I realized how little I know.

 

On 1/19/2018 at 3:19 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

A couple months ago, my beliefs were totally annihilated after a crushing and disappointing religious experience. I found myself with no beliefs and no idea what was what. That was a beginning.

 

Good that you have equated the experience with "a beginning". When a paradigm shifts, everything returns to zero.

 

On 1/19/2018 at 3:19 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

I had a striking realization. We are not humans experiencing consciousness; we are consciousness masquerading as humans. I was stunned with the force of this awakening. Since then everything has gone topsy turvy.

 

Profound realization.

 

On 1/19/2018 at 3:19 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

I have no idea which way is up. I have no idea what I'm doing with my life. I almost don't even exist, it seems, and I have no more drive or motivation for most anything in my life.

You are expressing well your predicament. Knowing oneself is "a beginning" at appropriate times.

 

On 1/19/2018 at 3:19 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

This is most distressing because I have always been a driven, strong, passionate person with many causes and convictions...now nothing seems to matter.

 

Apparently you know your own strength.

 

On 1/19/2018 at 3:19 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

I've read and heard to be still, to let go, to rest in the unknowing, but the practice has not dropped from my head to my heart and I struggle and I am confused and afraid as parts of me fall away and literally just die off.

 

Is it possible that the "my head to my heart" flow is already a part of the beginning? We may not know everything.

 

On 1/19/2018 at 3:19 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

I didn't realize that enlightenment meant giving up the "good" along with the "bad," and now it's too late.

 

Is "a beginning" - ever late? "Good/bad" - they always go together? What enlightenment - a big word?

 

On 1/19/2018 at 3:19 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

Most friends, my partner, my therapist, they have no idea what to do with me now.

 

It is my take that you know what to do with yourself - the way you are hitting the keyboard.

 

On 1/19/2018 at 3:19 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

I'm feeling alone (which I know is utterly silly because there is no separation, and yet that fearful feeling remains).

 

Each life is a road less traveled. You are only alone with the "beginning". The rest (friends, my partner, my therapist) are all there - calling for a redefinition?

 

On 1/19/2018 at 3:19 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

I'm here at Dao Bums looking for support, direction, a reference point, something that tells me which way is up and which way is down...and I'm most afraid that none of those things exist.

 

"Up/down" - how about 'right/left', 'internal/external'. 'old/new', 'end/beginning'...?

 

On 1/19/2018 at 3:19 AM, lifeaftercheckmate said:

Thank you all for this space.

 

Welcome to TDB.

 

- LimA

Edited January 22, 2018 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[Lost in Translation]

6 minutes ago, Limahong said:

Good that you had equated the experience with "a beginning". When a paradigm shifts, everything returns to zero

 

Excellent observation! I always enjoy a good "awakening" thread. This point of awakening as a beginning is (IMHO) crucial to understand.

 

We (my experience) begin by thinking awakening is it. Bam! All problems solved. Blissful life from now on. But no, that's not it. That's naive. Just as awakening doesn't mean you no longer eat or breath, similarly it doesn't mean you no longer feel pain.

 

Rather, awakening adds a new depth of understanding to the experience of life. It provides a richer context. You still have emotion. You still feel good. You still feel bad. You are still alive, but your aliveness is more vibrant. And yes, you still get pissed off sometimes. You still get angry. You still feel stress. But these "negative" feelings hold less gravity. They are more fleeting.

 

That's my experience. Yours may differ. But regardless of how we individually process spiritual growth, I am happy for all who are on the path.

 

[Bud Jetsun]

2 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

You still have emotion. You still feel good. You still feel bad. You are still alive, but your aliveness is more vibrant. And yes, you still get pissed off sometimes. You still get angry. You still feel stress. But these "negative" feelings hold less gravity. They are more fleeting.

 

 

These traits are manifestations of ego delusion alone.  Awareness burns on with timeless and brilliant indifference and equanimity.

 

There has never been an event worth trading ones peace inside, nor has it ever been a requirement to stop loving what Is and instead uncompassionately choose to suffer fearing what may have been or may yet be.

 

Unlimited Love,

-Bud