Connecting with Deities

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Well the messiah in me wants to maintain connection to both sides.. both good and evil.. knowing that saving someone could be a demon who needs to be saved from himself..

 

Siva.. your rite is Christian.

 

Jesus.. your rite belongs to the cross.. and all things are meteopeaia!

 

The Buddha asks how is it rite to channel people.. why cant they just make posts for themselves..?

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Your in the normal race for things when you understand yourself as a medium..

 

All forlorn is contact from a better self..

 

We are forgiven in penchance for each other!

[Jonesboy]

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 6:59 PM, Starjumper said:

 

OK, I can accept that, it does help.  I just don't see what help it is to even mention it though ... with respect to contacting others.

 

I am sure you have heard of the term grace?

 

Such connections is a means of helping us clear our obstructions and to realize the divine within ourselves. 

 

As mentioned earlier it can be a very powerful experience.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Jonesboy

[Starjumper]

On 3/17/2018 at 9:35 PM, Jonesboy said:

 

I am sure you have heard of the term grace?

 

Such connections is a means of helping us clear or obstructions and to realize the divine within ourselves. 

 

As mentioned earlier it can be a very powerful experience.

 

OK, On reviewing the opening post we find this line at the end: 

 

Quote

Once we get that, we can probably compare/contrast deities across traditions.

 

So since I don't know much of anything about no steenking deities I can't really comment on that, but we could compare some associated things, like how they are viewed or dealt with in different traditions.  I recall you writing that your background is Buddhist and Christian, while I'm a Taoist.  So I find a lot of words being used that I don't ever associate with and am unfamiliar with.  I mean, I've heard the words but don't use them or think about them.  So the words I'm referring to are words like: local mind, oneness, grace, and divine, and another one that I don't think was mentioned, worship   Those just don't really apply to my world view.

 

I'll explain how I look at it as a Taoist on the spiritual side rather than the religious side of Taoism, and I do know there is plenty of crossover in these.

 

So my view of deities (if we are talking about real entities in the spirit world rather than imaginary ones) is kind of unformed and goes kind of like this:  There are all kinds of entities in the spirit world and I'm referring to ones with some power, which excludes the ones like the hungry ghosts, but it does include demons.

 

These beings were once alive, flesh and bone humans or non humans, that have cultivated enough power to maintain their identities after death.  I don't see anything as divine, they are just some beings who feel they have some kind of 'job' and they want to stick around in the realm of manifestations for whatever reason, they have not yet or will not  "blend with the light" so to speak, and essentially loose their identities.  We are all equal, I don't think of any being as above or below me, there is only more ability or less ability.  Since I don't see anything as divine then that also excludes grace from the equation; we already excluded local mind and oneness =) .  I myself have no wish to 'blend with the light' like my teacher did, I want to stick around and keep messing with stuff and exploring.

 

What is most important to these beings is the game of ethics, they are incredibly aware of and excellent at navigating the path of ethics, even the demons.   Even the 'good' deities or spirits, who are masters of ethics, aren't necessarily nice to people, because all things are good or bad depending only on the point of view of the victim.  I feel that these beings have unconditional love in general, but it can be tough love.  The demons are similar in their appreciation of ethics, but they have a problem, they want control over people as a form of power, whereas the more enlightened of the denizens of the spirit world have no desire to control others, although they may snuff them if they interfere with their personal goals. 

 

So my contact with Babaji could be said to be contacting the divine and that therefore I'm in grace or something like that, but since I reject notions of superiority or inferiority I saw it as me being psychic enough to hear them and to get their attention.  Also I feel that I've been going around and around for many lifetimes, that I'm probably a dragon when I snuff it, (you know, immortal) and so I've dealt with some of these guys before.

 

So thanks for the mental exercise, some of what I wrote is knowing and some is guessing, but since my crown point is highly energized, which results in people knowing things without knowing why they know them, then maybe some of what I think is guessing is knowing.    Anyway, that's sort of along the lines of a Taoist wizard's point of view, but kind of unformed and uncaring.

 

OK, now it's your turn - to explain how divine and grace and oneness works from the point of view of your traditions.

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Starjumper
spelling

[Apech]

The word ‘divine’ comes from a PIE root ‘dyeu’ which means something like ‘that which shines’. Other words related are Deus for god, Deva and by inversion Devil – also Jove and Zeus are etymologically related. ‘That which shines’ refers to celestial lights, sun + moon etc. And so ‘heavenly’. There is also the term ‘divine’ which means to exercise calirvoyant powers or be a soothsayer/oracle.

 

Grace is that which falls from heaven – evenly and without effort – a manifestation of divine power in the world. From us there might be effort or work to do to contact divine power(s) but from their side it is all grace – effortless, easeful and enlightening.

[Jeff]

I will take a crack at answering this in a non-specific tradition form.  

 

First of all different beings exist at different levels/layers of consciousness. Once one has realized those differences, it is easy to tell the difference of those relative beings.  I would break them into five basic categories...

 

1) Trouble making or negative entities (include demon types).

2) Elementals or advanced spiritual practitioners that are no longer physically manifest.

3) Multidimensional advanced spiritual practitioners (this is where you find astral school and beings that like to fight/compare skills).

4) Divine or light level beings (angels, immortals, god types).

5) Realized divine beings (ruler immortals, full buddhas, Christs, etc...)

 

With all such beings there is sort of the concept of "going to them", or "they come to you". For sake of this post, I will only discuss the "going to them" aspects.  

 

Type 1 - connections happen most often when has not yet opened your heart and are in deep emotional distress.  This is why so many traditions have major problem with things like trying to connect with the dead, ghosts, etc... The person you are trying to reach is most likely beyond your range, but various entities can attach and create the illusion of a real connection. They hide the energy leaching behind the attachment and pain towards the distress.

 

Type 2 - This type of connection is possible for anyone who has opened the 5th and or 6th chakra. At what you could call "astral levels", beings that are at this level sort of blink or stand out. You can have elemental type beings or advanced spiritual types who are just interested in the contact.  Possible to learn or be helped by them, but just need to remember that these beings have their own ego's adgendas. Most are friendly, but some are not.

 

Type 3 - This type of connection is beyond "our world" or at higher astral levels.  There are advanced schools, teacher types, other beings looking to prove who are stronger. To reach these types of beings on your own, you need to at least be able to find and connect to any person on the planet with no clues. Like be able to access your friends friend and they feel you stopping by. Think more universal consciousness (or universal mind).

 

Type 4 - To access these beings on your own, you can do type 3, but now have shifted from astral "seeing" to shared presence or "being".  Some traditions call this the eighth chakra (or inner heart).

 

Type 5 - Access here is the same as Type 4, but knowing they are realized and not just type 4 is the hard part.  This is why in buddhism they say that you need to have reached at least a 8th bhumi to be able to see/know a buddha directly.

 

In all cases, all such beings can visit you whenever they want, but often unlikely you will have the clarity to notice in most cases.

[Jonesboy]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

 

OK, now it's your turn - to explain how divine and grace and oneness works from the point of view of your traditions.

 

 

When one integrates the inside and outside, the boundaries drop away and you can Energetically be with others. The deepest means is what we call a Merge.

 

Quote

"Merging - This is probably one of the most misunderstood terms of people that use it. Ultimately, a merge is a full overlap of consciousness with another being/person. Kind of like two concentric circles fully overlapping. But, being able to do a full overlap is very rare as the merger's own issues and fear limit the level of merge."

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/41978-q-a-for-jeff/

 

 

A true merge is very rare as mentioned above and what happens most often is a connection to a Divine being or from Jeff's post above a Type 5) Realized divine beings (ruler immortals, full buddhas, Christs, etc...) being.

 

One of the questions is why connect to such being, what are the benefits of doing so?

 

Why do traditions do energy work?

 

Part of the reason is that the energy hits upon our obstructions, helps remove the obstructions/issues. Then depending on the tradition will also do meditation which provides the silence to let those issues go without negative effects.

 

When one connects to a Type 5 Realized divine being it is like doing energy work and meditation all in one. It is more like being on the autobahn compared to rush hour traffic with regard to the dropping/removing/letting go of issues.

 

I have used the term grace very broadly. Grace is really when the Divine being merges with you but I used it earlier to just mean a connection to a divine being.

[s1va]

2 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

Part of the reason is that the energy hit's upon our obstructions, helps remove the obstructions/issues. Then depending on the tradition will also do meditation which provides the silence to let those issues go without negative effects.

 

When one connects to a Type 5 Realized divine being it is like doing energy work and meditation all in one. It is more like being on the autobahn compared to rush hour traffic with regard to the dropping/removing/letting go of issues.

 

If anyone thinks these observations are lofty, hard or will be time consuming to reach the level to connect with deities, etc., then I want to point out, with the help of those who are able to connect others to divine beings (able to share presence), many times such clearing can start right away.  The resulting changes when obstructions slowly start to clear are practical, noticeable and measurable.  There can be powerful transformations.  It can be beautiful and a life changing experience.

[Jeff]

4 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

When one integrates the inside and outside, the boundaries drop away and you can Energetically be with others. The deepest means is what we call a Merge.

 

 

A true merge is very rare as mentioned above and what happens most often is a connection to a Divine being or from Jeff's post above a Type 5) Realized divine beings (ruler immortals, full buddhas, Christs, etc...) being.

 

One of the questions is why connect to such being, what are the benefits of doing so?

 

Why do traditions do energy work?

 

Part of the reason is that the energy hits upon our obstructions, helps remove the obstructions/issues. Then depending on the tradition will also do meditation which provides the silence to let those issues go without negative effects.

 

When one connects to a Type 5 Realized divine being it is like doing energy work and meditation all in one. It is more like being on the autobahn compared to rush hour traffic with regard to the dropping/removing/letting go of issues.

 

I have used the term grace very broadly. Grace is really when the Divine being merges with you but I used it earlier to just mean a connection to a divine being.

 

To me, "grace" is when any higher being "helps".  It can be some energy hitting obstructions, but you could argue that any energetic interaction could do that.  I think to call it grace, one would have to say that with the energy, there is also the shared "space" to give the room to make that letting go much easier.  That extra space allows for what some traditions call "spontaneous perfection".  The issues and fears will just drop away without having to go through the conscious aspects of them.  Such a clearing leaves one with just a sense of "peace" around the stuff that was cleared.

[Apech]

8 hours ago, Jeff said:

I will take a crack at answering this in a non-specific tradition form.  

 

First of all different beings exist at different levels/layers of consciousness. Once one has realized those differences, it is easy to tell the difference of those relative beings.  I would break them into five basic categories...

 

1) Trouble making or negative entities (include demon types).

2) Elementals or advanced spiritual practitioners that are no longer physically manifest.

3) Multidimensional advanced spiritual practitioners (this is where you find astral school and beings that like to fight/compare skills).

4) Divine or light level beings (angels, immortals, god types).

5) Realized divine beings (ruler immortals, full buddhas, Christs, etc...)

 

With all such beings there is sort of the concept of "going to them", or "they come to you". For sake of this post, I will only discuss the "going to them" aspects.  

 

...

 

Hi Jeff,

 

Could you explain why you have grouped elementals with dead spiritual practitioners?  I'm a bit confused by this.

 

 

[Jeff]

13 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Hi Jeff,

 

Could you explain why you have grouped elementals with dead spiritual practitioners?  I'm a bit confused by this.

 

 

 

Because they both operate in the same sort of “astral” frequency range. The five levels I defined were about the spiritual practioner reaching out to various beings. You would also find contact with living astral masters in the same range. 

[Apech]

4 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Because they both operate in the same sort of “astral” frequency range. The five levels I defined were about the spiritual practioner reaching out to various beings. You would also find contact with living astral masters in the same range. 

 

Ah so you meant elementals and spiritual masters?  I misread that.  Thanks.

 

It is my understanding that elementals inhabit the element they are linked to e.g. salamanders in the element fire and so on.  They are spiritual entities which 'embody' sentience within that element.  Do you agree with this?

 

 

[Jeff]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Ah so you meant elementals and spiritual masters?  I misread that.  Thanks.

 

It is my understanding that elementals inhabit the element they are linked to e.g. salamanders in the element fire and so on.  They are spiritual entities which 'embody' sentience within that element.  Do you agree with this?

 

 

Not really in the way I meant it. In my experience it is more like an energy being that stays (or exists) in a specific location. The nature of the beings can very pretty greatly. I have found one that was like a giant puppy dog that always wants attention, to a bound/trapped being that raged for freedom. Some residing at various locations create the hallowed (or scary) feeling of the location. 

 

The way an energy being would be astrally “seen”, would be more about the person doing the looking (and how their mind translates it) then the energy itself. But, I have personally only interacted with 5 or 6 such beings, so ones like you describe could definitely be out there.

[Starjumper]

I had a channeller visit here, and she was a good one too.  She didn't channel any entity, just one, which gave her information.  Anyway, she saw my teacher's picture and attempted to contact him and then said that his vibration was too high and he could no longer communicate with this level, which is why I say that he has blended with the 'light' and lost his identity.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Of course what she said could have simply been an excuse for failure to make contact.  The offer by Boundlesscostlyfairy was interesting.  I've been curious to check this situation out, but I'm also hesitant to either share him or bother him if it is possible to connect.  Really, I should just work more to increase my psychic abilities once again, because I kind of let those go by the wayside after the demons came to visit two days in a row, that's a long story that maybe I'll share here later. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Starjumper

[Gerard]

I didn't want to reply to this thread because honestly this issue is a siddhi and siddhis are the source of many, many troubles in the spiritual path which is why Buddhist monastics are not allowed to talk about them/most keep it to themselves...and Taoists don't pay too much attention to that, they are more focused on natural laws, living in tune with the universal flow of Qi, the movement of celestial bodies, etc. However if one happens to open the mind completely and establish a direct line of communication with a deva with the sole purpose of helping fellow humans or for healing reasons then why not? Nothing wrong with that.

 

There is a Burmese Buddhist monk who has developed a special medicine with the help of devas. The footage can be seen in a video called "Healing Shaman." That particular segment of the whole video comes in fourth place:

 

https://youtu.be/vND5E-2aPrw

 

 

On the other hand Jane Roberts was an American psychic who had a fascinating encounter with a very advanced deva (only Mind present no form). It is one of my favourite books:

 

Seth Speaks - The Eternal Validity of the Soul.

 

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-56rRUG-ov0xn05ih/Jane Roberts - Seth Speaks_djvu.txt

 

Highly recommended reading.