Is it true that focusing on developing your middle dantian (heart), also develops and refines the upper and lower dantians too?

[Limahong]

3 hours ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

I’m still learning from earth and it is slow.

 

Hi Rocky,

 

Because you are on Earth and it (r)evolves slowly?

 

- Anand

Edited July 13, 2019 by Limahong
Correct errors.

[Daolander1]

8 hours ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

I’d say no.

 

Afaik one is supposed to build from the ground up, like a house. When the house is good to live in and store your reserves in you use it. When you need to dip into your reserves you do so from the top.

Analogy: you are human between heaven and earth, you live off the earth and what heaven feeds it to grow. So first you make sure you can stand on the ground, the study yourself while you study the earth and once you have built considerable relationship to the earth you can gain from heaven and study your relationship with both of them.

 

So when you use energy you get it from the sky, through your connection to the earth and it is expressed out of you in a similarly descending direction.

 

This is probably overly simplified and only corresponding to where i’m at and in no way a final thing. I’m still learning from earth and it is slow.

it is ok to think like that and get no further. in daoism alchemy is the result of action now being performed and storage is in the form of ability to perform as a result of learning how to act as a completion process not a piling process or a transformation process. the transformation only takes place if all three preconditions are completed at the same time. In the west we tend to think about these things as if we are cars. but we are more like a central heating system with three pumps. Only if all three work at the same time the water flow and heating works well. one pump does not cause the next to work. No pumps do some of the work, one pump a bit better, two pumps even better and three pumps bridge the gap between being an ok system to perfection. 

[Daolander1]

5 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Culture ~ yes... but re only certain part(s) of the world?

 

cultures used to be locality specific. You can now be part of that culture, but you need to play by its rules to understand what it can teach you and what not. scientism is a culture, and so is universalism, but pretty much a limited strand of a larger culture. daoism is sort of a heart of Chinese culture, and neidan is a strand of that. The thing is, I think, that people from one culture tend to have difficulties understanding other cultures and their ideas. It is why some reject strangers and others sometimes think strangers are an aquired taste.  Neidan similarly, it takes some study of chinese root ideas to get it, and you cannot read shortcut language and than think you got it. Neidan is already a slow learning process, but then if you are with 70 on your deathbed exhausted from life and disappointed with lack of result... that gives neidan a bad rap. on the other hand, if you really tried to understand this other culture and you celebrate your 150th birthday, you can claim you probably understand it. I cannot make this claim. But my claim is simply more rational than to think you can replace words with other ones and then still mean the same. It is colonial thinking. Being raised in a formerly colonial power in europe, some awareness of this fault people make (chinese people do it with our culture too!) is a form of respect for the otherness of what you do and of other cultures you work with. 

[Limahong]

57 minutes ago, Daolander1 said:

The thing is, I think, that people from one culture tend to have difficulties understanding other cultures and their ideas. It is why some reject strangers and others sometimes think strangers are an acquired taste.

 

Hi Daolander1,

 

Thank you for the expansion.

 

Now when I substitute 'culture as a worldview' with 'worldview of/on cultures' ~ I can quite comfortably follow your postings on this thread.

 

It is/will be good when the world has/will become ~ a global village.

 

- Anand

 

 

 

[Daolander1]

6 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi Daolander1,

 

Thank you for the expansion.

 

Now when I substitute 'culture as a worldview' with 'worldview of/on cultures' ~ I can quite comfortably follow your postings on this thread.

 

It is/will be good when the world has/will become ~ a global village.

 

- Anand

 

 

 

Hi Anand, you wish to make all cultures one so that everyone talks the same? it sounds a bit brave new world to me. Isn't the world already one global village allready? earth is small, precious to us, but heaven doesn't care and treats it like a straw puppet. If all cultures become one it impoverishes our ability to see new worldviews and perspectives. so no, one global worldviews with many cultures seems more wise to me becasue i like to be wrong sometimes, and when all cultures are the same ev eryone seems right all the time. Good remark though, thank you. 

[Limahong]

17 minutes ago, Daolander1 said:

... you wish to make all cultures one so that everyone talks the same? it sounds a bit brave new world to me.

 

Hi Daolander1,

 

Not one culture ~ but cultures...

 

 

 

Embrace/respect... for diversity.

 

- Anand

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

On 2019-07-13 at 8:36 PM, Daolander1 said:

it is ok to think like that and get no further.

 

@Daolander1 thank you for that long-awaited permission to keep blundering in futile efforts down a dead end road, fun talking to you.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Rocky Lionmouth

[Rocky Lionmouth]

9 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi Rocky,

 

Because you are on Earth and it (r)evolves slowly?

 

- Anand

 

Lima, imho it travels and revolves amazingly fast. My own progress however is snaillike to a snail.

[Daolander1]

On 7/13/2019 at 10:56 PM, Limahong said:

 

Hi Daolander1,

 

Not one culture ~ but cultures...

 

 

 

Embrace/respect... for diversity.

 

- Anand

 

Hi Anand, but if you lens all cultures only through your own culture's language, don't you make the other cultures then not subservient to your own?

 

[Limahong]

45 minutes ago, Daolander1 said:

... if you lens all cultures only through your own culture's language, don't you make the other cultures then not subservient to your own?

 

Hi Daolander1,

 

All cultures are colorful as they are... I perceive all cultures with the light from the sun...

 

 

The sun shines brightly and not linguistically.

 

- Anand

[Daolander1]

Just now, Limahong said:

 

Hi Daolander1,

 

All cultures are colorful as they are... I perceive all cultures with the light from the sun...

 

 

The sun shines brightly and not linguistically.

 

- Anand

Hi Anand, no disrespect but however you see them it is the language that you use. If you use english, that is hardly the language of the sun if something like that exists. Meanings of one language and another are commonly more often than not dissimilar. On the level of a newspaper you would not notice, but when you talk esoteric issues or philosophical issues there are usually huge differences. Takje energy and qi, there is little of similarity between the two concepts. energy is a modern scientismic interpretation of god's divine life force, while qi is an esthetic moral result of action. For the one you need a divine being to exist and for the other you more or less need to be humane. Ofcourse in our fantasies we are always right, but the truth is, and that is a daoist wisdom, it is always better to assume we are wrong. What I go for is that if I talk from my own perspective 99% change I am wrong, since i am not a genious, or not even smart. But If I try to understand what the ancient classics said within the context of their own science and culture as dissimilar to mine and separated by history as well as cultural distance, I might have a chance to understand it. And to come back to the sun metaphor, i feel like that too sometimes, but it doesn't make me right. So again, no disrespect for your thoughts and feelings, but simply for the nature and form of other cultures. Likewise i wouldn't dare to say anything significant of say, Hindu or Anansi culture, even though i studied about them. I didn't live them. 

[Limahong]

2 minutes ago, Daolander1 said:

... no disrespect but however you see them it is the language that you use.

 

Hi Daolander1,

 

When I am given food from another culture, I just put it in my mouth and enjoy silently... and then I will show my appreciation.

 

My favorite food ~ everyday home-cooked food.

 

- Anand

[Daolander1]

2 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi Daolander1,

 

When I am given food from another culture, I just put it in my mouth and enjoy silently... and then I will show my appreciation.

 

My favorite food ~ everyday home-cooked food.

 

- Anand

Hi Anand, are you now trolling me? lol. You know the story of the hare and the turtIe? The turtle and the hare see along the way they are running an apple in the gras. Close by there is also an elephant ripping branches from an apple tree.  The hare says, the apple and the elephant are the same because it is the same sun that makes them visible. On wich the turtle sighs and sais: I have no anwer for those who think the apple and the elephant are the same.

 

[Limahong]

1 minute ago, Daolander1 said:

... are you now trolling me?

 

No ~ I am taking a stroll with you...

 

 

[Daolander1]

5 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

No ~ I am taking a stroll with you...

 

 

Strolling is fine Anand. 

[Limahong]

20 minutes ago, Daolander1 said:

Strolling is fine

 

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

7 hours ago, Daolander1 said:

Hi Anand, no disrespect but however you see them it is the language that you use. If you use english, that is hardly the language of the sun if something like that exists. Meanings of one language and another are commonly more often than not dissimilar. On the level of a newspaper you would not notice, but when you talk esoteric issues or philosophical issues there are usually huge differences. Takje energy and qi, there is little of similarity between the two concepts. energy is a modern scientismic interpretation of god's divine life force, while qi is an esthetic moral result of action. For the one you need a divine being to exist and for the other you more or less need to be humane. Ofcourse in our fantasies we are always right, but the truth is, and that is a daoist wisdom, it is always better to assume we are wrong. What I go for is that if I talk from my own perspective 99% change I am wrong, since i am not a genious, or not even smart. But If I try to understand what the ancient classics said within the context of their own science and culture as dissimilar to mine and separated by history as well as cultural distance, I might have a chance to understand it. And to come back to the sun metaphor, i feel like that too sometimes, but it doesn't make me right. So again, no disrespect for your thoughts and feelings, but simply for the nature and form of other cultures. Likewise i wouldn't dare to say anything significant of say, Hindu or Anansi culture, even though i studied about them. I didn't live them.

 

You know when someone goes to great lenghts to explain something that is more or less perfectly obvious to most people in the room and someone tries to jokingly tell them ”You don’t say? Stop the presses, you’re never going to believe what this one just told me!” and the irony of the moment is just totally lost on that first someone who proceeds to go on and on to make sure their ”breaking news” is delievered? Wait for it... just a few minutes more...

Edited July 15, 2019 by Rocky Lionmouth

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

Wait for it... just a few minutes more...

 

Hi Rocky,

 

There is apparently Someone III...

 

But we need only one someone...

 

But I need/want...

 

Why? So that my three dantians can be aligned as someONE.

 

"... developing your middle dantian (heart),

also develops and refines the upper

and lower dantians too?"

- Ryan94

 

"This is probably overly simplified and

only corresponding to where i’m at and

in no way a final thing. I’m still learning from earth and

it is slow."

- Rocky Lionmouth

 

- Anand

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[exorcist_1699]

If we  just view Taoist dantians and  the Indian chakras  as some kind of centers where energy comes  out, then it is easy to make some sort of comparisons , however , people seem to miss that there are  yin-yang  and  i-ching  concepts  behind the Taoist dantian theory  which  the Indian system  lacks of .  For example , in the  Taoist system  , wherever part  of  our body gets convex/overhanging part and/ or  hair growth  ,  wherever is  viewed as the part possessing yang qi . It is therefore not strange to find that  the lower abdomen, center of  our  breasts and forehead plus the in-depth part from it to the skull  be viewed as dantians ;  and  by focusing on any of  them , it is much easier to mobilize qi we want .

 

The general rule is  while women be advised to paying attention to their middle dantians , men are advised to focus on their lower abdomen. The upper dantian , despite being some kind of short-cut to the final destination , due to its difficulty of  being manipulated in terms of how strong a  strength  we should apply  , is  seldom advocated.

 

There is also no   I-ching typed of concepts such as using  water ( hidden in the lower dantian ) to  counteract the upper  fire  ( the fluctuating  minds)  in the Indian system . In fact, it is  unlikely that  the mind can  settle itself ,   empty itself without other help . In most cases, the more eager  we want to settle it, empty it, the more minds we are putting into it...  ,making it nearly  an impossible job . Taoist solution gives  us another  perspective to deal with the issue .

Edited July 31, 2019 by exorcist_1699

[Limahong]

6 hours ago, exorcist_1699 said:

If we  just view Taoist dantians and  the Indian chakras  as some kind of centers where energy comes  out, then it is easy to make some sort of comparisons , however , people seem to miss that there are  yin-yang  and  i-ching  concepts  behind the Taoist dantian theory  which  the Indian system  lacks of .

 

Hi exorcist_1699,

 

3 dantians + 7 chakras => almost perfect 10 amalgamations?

 

How much do we know/understand of the "Indian system"?

 

What are we lacking in our knowledge/understanding thus?

 

- Anand

[Limahong]

On 7/14/2019 at 6:36 AM, Rocky Lionmouth said:

imho it travels and revolves amazingly fast. My own progress however is snail-like to a snail.

 

Hi Rocky,

 

Yes ~ the Earth revolves fast and we earthlings evolve snail-like.

 

But from a yin-yang perspective ~ there is relative/relativity harmony/balance?

 

 

To each ~ his/her/its own speed?

 

 

- Anand

 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Limahong

[Limahong]

On 7/14/2019 at 6:36 AM, Rocky Lionmouth said:

My own progress however is snail-like to a snail.

 

Hi Rocky,

 

Try and progress faster forward naturally ~ be ONE with Nature like a reborn child and let our body not be conditioned... and expects nothing.

 

To me this input from Spotless is grounded with experiential roots...

 

On 7/13/2019 at 10:37 AM, Spotless said:

A good Qi Gong practice will energize centers and channels and break down ridgidized energetic patterns without personal manipulation and orchestration.

 

Try not to overlook new feelings in our body. Try and sense even the slightest new feelings re a new internal energy roadmap. Try a road less traveled (good if you can have someone you can trust as a fellow traveler). Try to know your body anew...

 

 

- Anand

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Lima, your timing eerily synchronized with advice from my SO and my general idea of what to do. 

 

Besides slacking off which has been frequent during late spring and early summer 😳

[Limahong]

12 hours ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

... your timing eerily synchronized with advice from my SO and my general idea of what to do.

 

Hi Rocky,

 

You believe in Destiny?

 

What Does Taoism Say About  Fate and Future? Is it Predetermined?

*Taoist practitioners spend a lot of time coming to understand the flow of change and time.  Where issues of the future, fate, choice, or prophecy are matters of guesswork or faith in most religions, it is neither within Taoism.

*Knowledge of change and time is highly accurate and can be relied upon as valuable information. 

*Some things are predetermined and absolutely will occur. 

*Most events are not predetermined, but are highly likely because the influences that are bringing about the event are unlikely to change.

*The I Ching is designed to instruct one on the flow of change.  

*It provides a model of the major influences and expressions of those influences, and is often used to reveal the future.

- The Taoism for the Modern World

 

 

 

- Anand

 

(P.S. Who is SO?)

 

 

[Limahong]

On 7/16/2019 at 6:39 PM, exorcist_1699 said:

... in the  Taoist system  , wherever part  of  our body gets convex/overhanging part and/ or  hair growth  ,  wherever is  viewed as the part possessing yang qi .

 

Hi exorcist_1699,

 

I find your mention of hair growth interesting.

 

Are hair aerial roots...?

 

 

 

- Anand