Aikido Kumitachi

[Nungali]

Any Aikido practioners out there familiar with these ? 

 

I have ( still )  been trying to track down the 5 sets of paired sword exercises taught by Sugarno Sensai   ( no luck )  , these seem to have replaced them ?  I can see  some elements of the earlier 5 sets in these  ( did they evolve from them ?

 

My difficulty in tracing the earlier forms is not knowing their name ;   'subari'  ( eg 20 jo subari ) seems to define a set of single movements, one after another  ' Kumi tachi '  suggests  ' sword fight '  ( although  with pre-arranged moves ) .

 

At first I couldnt make a lot of  sense out of what people were doing with these exercises , until I watched these guys , who are much better,  and one can  discern their techniques better ;

 

 

[thelerner]

Those are great, the 'joseki' of sword play.  Filled with subtlety, many small angles of body and blade you can't get from a film.  I didn't get too far with them even at Nidan. 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

I love sword fighting.. can you teach me something about it?

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

I love sword fighting.. can you teach me something about it?

 

 

Sure . I am having a beginners  session on Friday 9 am, and a more advanced class on Saturday at 8 am .   Come on over .  

 

But it is different from what the guys in vid did .     ; our 'kumitachi' include various techniques not found  in modern Aikido  ( well, some schools may have them, but my Aikido instructor did not know them *  , as I managed to 'kill' him 3 times with 3 different ones, he never seen them before and was totally surprised) . 

 

( *  that does not include Mr  Sugano Jnr. I am not sure what he knows, but he did show me some stuff I did not know, or that other aikido instructors seemed not to know . )

 

The first teaching is, it isn't about flailing a sword around , it more about body movement and positioning depending on what your opponent does - so its about 'relationship' and 'harmony' -  response , not reaction.  Become 'mercurial' .

 

However I do not train in a gym ; its outdoors, so the first part is about awareness , of yourself, environment, the ground you are on, nearby obstacles and advantages, the time of day angle of the Sun , etc . Then there is all the stuff about reading one's opponent.

 

You will also need to have a background in some martial art that taught you movement, body placement , distancing,

 

You need visuals for all that . and many breakdowns and explanations .  Even for the first movement .  

 

George does a pretty good job  ,   so have a watch and listen to this ;

 

 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Hmm, I am reminded of soft and hard style..

 

Soft being an attempt to bridge your sword onto his in a way that doesnt use as much strength as hard style.. but uses the physical dexterity.. of the forearm..this style works great in company of good grounding techniques..

 

Hard style would be the more sword bashing against sword.. and attempting to overpower your opponent..

 

Though I would surely believe that any fight with a sword would use both types..!

 

I practice Martial Arts everyday..

 

I practice with a Katana.. but cant use hard force because of the walls in my basement.. I also practice with a Bo and a plastice lightsaber..

 

The thing I took from Aikido, is the hand grab - wrist locke then turn..

 

Also the flow is very beautiful to me.. but I hate being the victim of the Sensei.. having them show me what to do if I get wrist locked etc.. because I dont need to practice something that would never happen to me.. this is arrogant but true in ky case because I am a martial arts genius!

[Nungali]

Many of the Aikido techniques are based on a wrist grab because people used to carry swords around and there are a few ways to stop someone drawing or using  their sword ( if you are close enough to them )  and  there are 'counters' to those 'anti-draw' and use moves .  That's why in many Aikido techniques the hands are used as if one was holding a sword .

 

But being a genius , you would already know this .

 

Does your light sabre make a noise when you switch it on ?  Dont use it for a surprise stealth  Ninja attack .....      < crackling noise ....  lights up  >    would be victim to friend ; " That 'genius ninja' is out in the garden again -  release the dogs ! "

 

The dogs will give you a nice 'wrist grab '  ... in that case , you need Master Wong      

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Nungali

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Hehehe.. yes in fact it makes the most annoying sound.. like a bunch of distortion.. AND also turns red.. 

 

I basically agree about the sensei thing.. If im not perfect than I should submit for more learning.. Judo is similar to this..

 

Good info about practicing swords..

 

Did you know that the root of Aikido came from Jujitsu.. which was divided into both Judo.. and Aikido?

 

Also other good martial arts are wingchun..

 

Shoalin Kung fu is great at flow of rythm, magic and pressure points.. meridians dantiens etc..

 

But I think that Aikido might be the best martial art because of the wrist joint lock.. you can keep running awaty.. luring your opponent to strike you.. then you use a bit of soft hand or directly grab and lock throw!

 

But If you were in a fight against multiple people you could probably use Wing Chun for most benefit..

[Nungali]

16 minutes ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

Hehehe.. yes in fact it makes the most annoying sound.. like a bunch of distortion.. AND also turns red.. 

 

I basically agree about the sensei thing.. If im not perfect than I should submit for more learning.. Judo is similar to this..

 

Good info about practicing swords..

 

Did you know that the root of Aikido came from Jujitsu.. which was divided into both Judo.. and Aikido?

 

Of course ... and I am not even a genius     It appears to have come out of  Daito , founded byTakeda Sokaku   who defined the art of aiki as "

The secret of aiki is to overpower the opponent mentally at a glance and to win without fighting

A skill I used many times in my work as hospital orderly ... and once with sword .

 

Me; "  Go on, attack ! "

Opponent;  " No . "    ( first time I encountered THAT in training ! ) .

Me; " Why not ? "

O : " I dont like the look on your face ."

 

So I went to attack him then, and he legged it ... literally , across the park and into the bushes .   

 

Unfortunately this all got messed up and turned into a 'peace process'   like ' The way of Aikido is peaceful reconciliation ' , which only appeared after the Japanese got mashed at the end of WWII  when resistance and aggressive martial stuff was banned.

 

16 minutes ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

 

Also other good martial arts are wingchun..

 

Shoalin Kung fu is great at flow of rythm, magic and pressure points.. meridians dantiens etc..

 

But I think that Aikido might be the best martial art because of the wrist joint lock.. you can keep running awaty.. luring your opponent to strike you.. then you use a bit of soft hand or directly grab and lock throw!

 

Ummmm ... one is not supposed to 'grab and throw' at all,  in Aikido .

 

16 minutes ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

 

But If you were in a fight against multiple people you could probably use Wing Chun for most benefit..

 

Most benefit, in such a situation, comes from any system which realises and teaches the BASIC first principles when considering multiple attacks.  Aikido  'randori'  has some of these  first principles, but they spoil it by the way they  practice randori ( and Aikido ) .

[Boundlesscostfairy]

So a circle with a dot/point in the middle..

 

This is the center of the mind body.. 

 

Each line of radius is the direction you are pointing or extending to..

 

This is a very basic view of martial arts but still works as a way to reflect on the true principles of martial arts..

 

So with 180 degrees you are extending yiur arms horizontally.. above that your extending certain limbs forward.. and below you is extending backwards..

 

Thus the revolutionary circle of Aikido..!

 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Well I had a book on Aikido.. and there was first wrist lock.. and then an action to twist the wrist to the degree that the opponent must  flip over or break his wrist..!

[Nungali]

Yeah yeah  ... in 'practice'  it works - note from 4 :25

 

 

 

and

 

 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Well just to say.. mma usually has gloves which kind of mooks the hand grabs..

 

Also to facec a boxer head on is not usaully a good idea..

 

Like I said in previous post is to dance with the man.. but dont attack.. just run circles around him, until you can get a grab of one of his wrists.. and perform your art..

 

Thats what I would do if i wasnt wearing gloves..

[Nungali]

 

 

 

[Nungali]

.... or ,

you could run circles around them while hitting them with your lightsabre .

[Boundlesscostfairy]

So how would you give advice to an aikido practitioner facing an mma fighter.. either with or without gloves?

 

I have this random theory.. that if you apply yourself right and have the will to win.. you could win a fight with any style..

 

What do you think about freestyle?

 

Im personnaly most involved with Freestyle.. but still go down the list of techniques from various martial arts.. my freestyle is usually most like shaolin..

[Nungali]

14 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

So how would you give advice to an aikido practitioner facing an mma fighter.. either with or without gloves?

 

Get out the ring !   Or use another 'art' other than Aikido .   You can still grab with MMA 'gloves'  -  have a look at them. How do you think those guys 'grapple' ?

 

You have to understand the origin of Aikido and the changes it has gone through, Originally it used such 'jutsu' techniques as kicks and punches dont work against armour, often, weapons dont work against armour either.  But armour  stifles your movement, and if you go down wearing it, it can be hard to get up again.  Watch how these guys fight, not Japanese but same principles - grappling and taking down .

 

 

 

14 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

 

I have this random theory.. that if you apply yourself right and have the will to win.. you could win a fight with any style..

 

What do you think about freestyle?

 

What do you mean by 'freestyle' ?

 

14 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

 

Im personnaly most involved with Freestyle.. but still go down the list of techniques from various martial arts.. my freestyle is usually most like shaolin..

 

?   Like   'Shaolin'  ?