Translations of Tao Te Ching

[dharmabum]

i've always hoped to find a discussion forum regarding tao. i have read about 15 different translations of the Tao Te Ching and notice how much the author/translator often impose their own personal biases in their translations.

i recall two if the translations were almost identical. one was put out by Penguin Books and the other was authored by a professor at a small college in about 1961 - his name was of Chinese origin. i have 2 questions:

first, does anyone recognize this second translation and know the author's name? second, do other people have favorite translations of the Tao?

[Mal]

You might be able to find it in here, they are arranged by date.

 

http://www.bopsecrets.org/gateway/passages/tao-te-ching.htm

 

I'm just discovering the joys of the many different translations of Chang Tzu, have fun with the Tao Te Ching

[Starjumper]

The most accurate translation of the TTC is said to be by Derek Lin. He has a discussion forum here: Tea House Tell them Starjumper sent you. Derek's web site is here: Truetao.org. With music too. Enjoy.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Vantage]

second, do other people have favorite translations of the Tao?

I've heard Stephen Mitchell's is good: http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Te-Ching-Perenni...1976&sr=8-1

Check out the reviews there's a lot of information there.

 

I am reading this one at the moment:

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Te-Ching-Perenni...1976&sr=8-1

It's just a short verse of the Tao every chapter and then Byron Katie gives her interpretation. To appreciate I think you need to be familiar with The Work. I love it.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Vantage

[Buddy]

"The most accurate translation of the TTC is said to be by Derek Lin."

 

By whom is this said?

[三江源]

"The most accurate translation of the TTC is said to be by Derek Lin."

 

By whom is this said?

 

Guess who it's

said by............

 

1.) people at the bus stop whilst chewing gum

 

2.) sausage factory workers

 

3.) people who study the matters under discussion here

Edited January 24, 2008 by cat

[Brian L. Kennedy]

Edited January 24, 2008 by Brian L. Kennedy

[Procurator]

 

Let me be quick to add, I am not saying that traditional Chinese Daoism is superior to North American New Age Daoism

(shrug) of course not. because the customer is always right.

[thelerner]

Here are a couple links;

 

www.religiousworlds.com/taoism/ttc-list.html

http://www.wayist.org/ttc%20compared/indexchp.htm

http://www.edepot.com/taotext.html

 

Can't find it now, but there was another site that had many translations and allowed you to set up and compare 2 or 3 line by line.

 

Michael

[Brian L. Kennedy]

As to the idea the "customer is always right"; that raises the interesting issue that the Daodejing is a minor industry! Most of the yo-yos doing the "pseudo-translations" are simply picking up a copy of Legge or Wing Tsit Chans version and rewriting it with some New Age gibberish then finding a publisher for it. It is too bad because it really shows a disrespect for the classics.

 

take care,

Brian

[rene]

As to the idea the "customer is always right"; that raises the interesting issue that the Daodejing is a minor industry! Most of the yo-yos doing the "pseudo-translations" are simply picking up a copy of Legge or Wing Tsit Chans version and rewriting it with some New Age gibberish then finding a publisher for it. It is too bad because it really shows a disrespect for the classics.

 

take care,

Brian

 

Very true. And it's a pattern of disrespect that might have begun 2500 years ago when it was "re-named" and "re-translated" into something more marketable and more palatable for Confucian purposes.

[Procurator]

Very true. And it's a pattern of disrespect that might have begun 2500 years ago when it was "re-named" and "re-translated" into something more marketable and more palatable for Confucian purposes.

You seem to be furter developing the Kirkland's bold idea about received DDJ being an artificial construct or a "simulacre" as they say. Good for you!

 

However as much as I simphatise with Kirkland this idea is a bit too far out and too simplistic. You are taking it even far out still - e.g renaming it? From what? Why? How the renaming increased marketability?

[Procurator]

"The most accurate translation of the TTC is said to be by Derek Lin."

 

By whom is this said?

I looked at the very first line of his translation and read no further - it is most likely that Derek heard about the "minjia" (the school of names) but did not register the most obvious reference here to it. With such grasp of the field his translation is not better than average run of the mill.

[rene]

You seem to be furter developing the Kirkland's bold idea about received DDJ being an artificial construct or a "simulacre" as they say. Good for you!

Please dont give me credit for something that did not occur to me. I'm not familiar with Kirkland or bold ideas about anything.

 

 

However as much as I simphatise with Kirkland this idea is a bit too far out and too simplistic. You are taking it even far out still - e.g renaming it? From what? Why? How the renaming increased marketability?

The Daodejing was originally called The Laozi. My understanding is as the various bodies of thought syncreted (towards a more formalized practicing of Daoism) during the Han - the renaming of the DDJ to include "De" may or may not have added an importance not originally intended in The Laozi, but for sure it gave a nod towards the newly budding Confucian principals, which were also vying for position about then. Likely others here are far more knowledgable on this. My understanding is one formed only by passing through various places.

[rene]

Procurator, please excuse my manners. Here's a link to a discussion that may give more information towards your question. What you're asking about begins partway down the first page...

 

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...=19538&st=0

[voidisyinyang]

I like Nancy Chen's translation even though she doesn't use it as a meditation book, rather just a philosophy text. She's cool.

[Stigweard]

In my humble opinion, I find Master Ni, Hua Ching's "The Complete Works of Lao Tzu, Tao Teh Ching & Hua Hu Ching" to be both lucid and instructive for the devoted self-cultivator.

[mota]

http://taoistresource.home.comcast.net/~ta...rce/doe_idx.htm

 

about 1/3 of the way down the page you will find the heading:

 

0691 11

The Truthful Scripture Of Way(Tao) And Virtue

 

which has 13 versions linked for your reading enjoyment.

 

 

This site allows you to read some Chinese classic texts in original language and with some translations.

 

http://www.afpc.asso.fr/wengu/wg/wengu.php?l=bienvenue

 

Edited January 26, 2008 by mota

[dharmabum]

wow - i am amazed and grateful for all that i have gleaned from this discussion. i have taken some of the links and found more translations that i never even knew of. even Alister Crowley! and a little searching found the translation which i had sought - currently published by Shambala, by John CH Wu originally put out in 1961. a

funny twist on things - as i had mentioned that this translation and the Penguin translation(by Chu) are almost identical save for two slight variations (one used "empty vessel" the other "uncarved block"). now i see that were published in New York less than 2 years apart. hmmm....perhaps this is no mere coincidence.

thanks to all who contributed.