Remote two-person and group energetic practices

[dwai]

 

2 hours ago, Spotless said:

 

A "great healer" may not understand the little things when working around a pregnant woman or what not to do with a person with epilepsy. Very few understand Kundalini - nearly zero. If clear connection/ communication is not established with the spirit then considerable effort in orchestrating life experiences can be "removed" and basically lost. Most concepts around "opening up the chakras" are so far off base that they are generally dangerous in that they can "disorganized the house" of the recipient to the extent that they are open to all sorts of unfortunate side effects.

It would be interesting to find out more about what you mean by the section I've bolded.

 

[Spotless]

20 minutes ago, dwai said:

 

It would be interesting to find out more about what you mean by the section I've bolded.

 

"If clear connection/ communication is not established with the spirit then considerable effort in orchestrating life experiences can be "removed" and basically lost."

 

The general frequencies (karma) one is working on/through are pretty radically complicated on one hand - often the spirit/higher self/authentic self is extremely aware of the overall general bent of the frequencies they have set up to experience in order to move through the karmic frequencies they abide in/are habituated to/genetically inclined to/compressed in. They will generally have a whole group of beings and guides that oversee their progress and help and aid during the confusion and the somewhat glacial "timelines" in otherness.

 

A "healer", energy worker may see the body, the somewhat confused sleeping consciousness and the general array of thought forms and inclinations and may see well into the subtle bodies beyond just the aura and chakras and channels but the much higher bodies - but they are rarely speaking to (for lack of better terms) - the Higher Self. That higher self is typically quite clear and unencumbered. Often the only thing wanted or needed in a healing is the experience of needing a healing and then getting some movement and insight in order to begin a vibration/frequency/karmic resonance that moves beyond the ones being "finished with" or getting unstuck. It is the experience that was created and how the episode has been written that is often at issue.

 

As a "healer" progresses time and space will cease and efficacy will be extremely high in NO-TIME meaning that a second is more than enough for pretty much anything (actually simply a movement of Presence to the "issue' is what is reference to in the "second". But this will not do for the person in the body - it is the reason why ritual is so important - it is of zero importance and at the same time it is needed (for the person to believe) (for the person to feel) (for the person to adjust). AND it is generally needed for the healer to believe - especially if that is what they have been taught. Unfortunately this discussion right now is not the most inspiring to a healer and as one progresses many drop "healing" as a moniker for themselves because of this.

 

Speaking to spirit is very simple but speaking to Higher Self is not so simple - most cannot see pasts/presents/futures, akashic records and even then possess neutrality - radical neutrality. These unfold as they may - it is not something taught though it can be practiced and taught to a degree. Any feeling of sound footing and you are unable to proceed - it is something that can only be achieved in the understanding that you know nothing - not conceptual "understanding". Presence in no-footing - this is what is entirely disorienting in a large Awakening and gently re-assembling light holding is the obstruction.

 

However - one does not need to Awaken in order to attain to speaking with Higher Self but neutrality is a very key requirement and even then some things will simply be in a sense out of bounds for many complicated reasons. Part of neutrality incorporates non-doing and somewhat along those lines - non-meddling. It is amazing how many "healers" are meddlers without the least idea of just how out of line their meddling is. If the word Love is often used in their healing it is a reason to be Very suspect - though that certainly could be a great thing as well.

 

Simple mechanical healing is often the most powerful and quickest - it require no love, compassion or belief of any kind - just as none of those things are required to fix a car. And sometimes the most profound healing is in just saying "hello" to spirit - in a flash the spirit is awakened to NOW and somehow all of the preoccupations are lightened and many relinquished - boom!

Recognition is incredibly powerful - often many seeking healing are truly seeking recognition - the "problem" is long set in various fences and cubicles that in a way - got out of hand - typically over and over and over and over and over again and again and again and again. 

 

Higher Self is wearing away the onion skins in this repetition of karmic frequencies - fully aware it is a kind of glacial cluster stuck - and completely happy with the general progress (in a good awake sense).

 

 

 

 

 

[rainbowvein]

18 hours ago, dwai said:

Please elaborate

 

I mean to say that humans experience spiritual blindspots.
Not just practitioners. But masters and teachers too.
Even with the best of intentions for humanity’s development,

spiritual practitioners can interpret the spiritual world inaccurately.

Spirituality is deeply mysterious. Many practitioners aim to understand the unfoldings.
Me included. What results is that our minds are constantly forming ideas to describe what is transpiring.
Sometimes we get it correct. Sometimes we don’t. Event the books we read, or the bums we meet get it wrong too.

To put it plainly, descriptions are rarely helpful. More times, harmful. To your spirit’s development, that is.

 

Honestly, I can’t reveal the answer.

 

What I can share that may be helpful: protect what you’ve got. Don’t let your spiritual formation go down the gutter.
How you do it -- well, if I tell you, I will sound like like just another bum sharing her ‘expertise.’ (And I’ve shared a lot since I joined this forum.)  

 

Protect your chi.

Protect your mind.

Protect your humanity.

 

[Spotless]

2 minutes ago, rainbowvein said:

 

 

I mean to say that humans experience spiritual blindspots.
Not just practitioners. But masters and teachers too.
Even with the best of intentions for humanity’s development,

spiritual practitioners can interpret the spiritual world inaccurately.

Spirituality is deeply mysterious. Many practitioners aim to understand the unfoldings.
Me included. What results is that our minds are constantly forming ideas to describe what is transpiring.
Sometimes we get it correct. Sometimes we don’t. Event the books we read, or the bums we meet get it wrong too.

To put it plainly, descriptions are rarely helpful. More times, harmful. To your spirit’s development, that is.

 

Honestly, I can’t reveal the answer.

 

What I can share that may be helpful: protect what you’ve got. Don’t let your spiritual formation go down the gutter.
How you do it -- well, if I tell you, I will sound like like just another bum sharing her ‘expertise.’ (And I’ve shared a lot since I joined this forum.)  

 

Protect your chi.

Protect your mind.

Protect your humanity.

 

"Protect your chi.

Protect your mind.

Protect your humanity."

 

This is often assumed to mean:  Protect (out of fear - otherness)

It can also be said in other words:

Embody your Chi

Embody your mind

Embody your humanity 

Own these and you own the roots

[dwai]

Just now, Spotless said:

"Protect your chi.

Protect your mind.

Protect your humanity."

 

This is often assumed to mean:  Protect (out of fear - otherness)

It can also be said in other words:

Embody your Chi

Embody your mind

Embody your humanity 

Own these and you own the roots

How can you not embody your chi, mind or humanity as long as we are embodied (have bodies)?

[Jetsun]

3 minutes ago, dwai said:

How can you not embody your chi, mind or humanity as long as we are embodied (have bodies)?

 

You get out of body. Just about everybody is out of body to some degree.

[Spotless]

10 minutes ago, dwai said:

How can you not embody your chi, mind or humanity as long as we are embodied (have bodies)?

We live in our bodies yet most treat them like a horse that one rides. 

 

We live a thousand lifetimes in our minds futures and pasts and contort our bodies with the heat and cold compressions of fear that never has existed in the futures and pasts that we torment ourselves and bodies with - the monkey is at the helm and we think it is ME.

 

We have humanity outside of us - it is not the pony we ride - it is otherness. That smell over there - it is not me or us - it is a judgment that isolates and belittles and orchestrates defense.

 

To own/embody ones Chi is not to be its consequence

To own/embody our mind is to quell its thirst for knowership above intuition and our greater Higher Self.

To own/embody humanity is to see ourselves in others and them in ourself and the all and everything in the water and air - we are more comprised of space than particles and the energy that "keeps" us keeps all that is.

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Spotless

[dwai]

10 minutes ago, rainbowvein said:

 

 

I mean to say that humans experience spiritual blindspots.
Not just practitioners. But masters and teachers too.
Even with the best of intentions for humanity’s development,

spiritual practitioners can interpret the spiritual world inaccurately.

Spirituality is deeply mysterious. Many practitioners aim to understand the unfoldings.
Me included. What results is that our minds are constantly forming ideas to describe what is transpiring.
Sometimes we get it correct. Sometimes we don’t. Event the books we read, or the bums we meet get it wrong too.

To put it plainly, descriptions are rarely helpful. More times, harmful. To your spirit’s development, that is.

 

Honestly, I can’t reveal the answer.

 

Beautifully articulated.

10 minutes ago, rainbowvein said:

 

What I can share that may be helpful: protect what you’ve got. Don’t let your spiritual formation go down the gutter.
How you do it -- well, if I tell you, I will sound like like just another bum sharing her ‘expertise.’ (And I’ve shared a lot since I joined this forum.)  

 

Protect your chi.

Protect your mind.

Protect your humanity.

 

Not meaning to argue, but I am genuinely curious. what is it that one has? Who is it that has or does not have something? My experience is that more we try to hold on to something, more it binds us in a prison. As soon as we let go of the desire to hold on, we are free to grow and learn more. And strange thing is, what we let go the desire to hold on to, stays with us more gracefully. 

[dwai]

10 minutes ago, Jetsun said:

 

You get out of body. Just about everybody is out of body to some degree.

I don't quite understand this. Please elaborate?

[liminal_luke]

40 minutes ago, Spotless said:

 

Simple mechanical healing is often the most powerful and quickest - it require no love, compassion or belief of any kind - just as none of those things are required to fix a car. And sometimes the most profound healing is in just saying "hello" to spirit - in a flash the spirit is awakened to NOW and somehow all of the preoccupations are lightened and many relinquished - boom!

 

 

This reminds me of a non-technique of Chi Nei Tsang abdominal massage called "peace touch."  A bodyworker touches a client in an aware way but without the intention of changing anything -- that`s peace touch.  It`s simple yet it doesn`t come easy, at least not to me.  So hard to let go of the desire to do something...

Edited February 9, 2018 by liminal_luke

[dwai]

5 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

This reminds me of a non-technique of Chi Nei Tsang abdominal massage called "peace touch."  A bodyworker touches a client in an aware way but without the intention of changing anything -- that`s peace touch.  It`s simple yet it doesn`t come easy, at least not to me.  So hard to let go of the desire to do something...

Haha isn't it true! Not doing should be so easy, but it is so hard

[Spotless]

Peace Touch - very nice!

[rainbowvein]

2 hours ago, Spotless said:

 

 

Hi spotless.

 

No, no protecting out of fear on my end.  

Edited February 9, 2018 by rainbowvein

[C T]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

Haha isn't it true! Not doing should be so easy, but it is so hard

 

I read somewhere that explains this in detail, but i'll fumble around and try to summarise it in my own words:  Its hard because most people function contractively from the lower self. The lower self is all about taking, sowing the seeds of desire.. "whats in it for me", without end. Where there is desire, 'action' (karma) is unavoidable. Actions arise and progress sequentially; in the process, it compounds other actions, which then compounds desire... on and on it goes, like a vicious cycle. This flip-flop between craving and the need for satiation is likened to a sort of 'fragmentation' that will keep reinforcing its own feeling of lack. 

 

Fragmentation is seen as a fundamental weakness that is like a wedge preventing the lower and higher self from attaining wholeness, and this sets off all kinds of other secondary disturbances. I think this fundamental sense of seeming separation is described in Sanskrit as 'Tanha' - the gnawing sensation of perpetual discomfort, not knowing the real cause of it, whereby the absence of this knowledge further drives the tendency or desire to seek for any and all means to calm the discomfort/unease. So its clear that in such cases, non-doing is practically unachievable. 

 

According to some schools of Buddhist thought, the combined application of samatha and vipassana, which forms the basis of all other Buddhist meditative exercises across all the different traditions, is the practice that helps to identify, and to keep on identifying this invisible wedge so that the increasing recognition (awareness) leads to enabling the practitioner to gradually come to accept that there is indeed a wedge there (the primary cause), and to take responsibility in acknowledging that he or she has, as a result of past actions, brought this wedge into existence, acknowledge personal responsibility for current state one is in as a result of having allowed that wedge to remain stuck in place for x length of time, and then cultivate an unhindered willingness to take responsibility for future actions that will ensure the dislodgement of it. Its said this is a sure way to get back to wholeness. Ultimately, this sense of wholeness (nirvana) replaces the previous sense of fragmentation (samsara) - and non-doing (which implies an absence of the accruement of further karma) becomes a consequence, just as karma was a consequence of the prior state. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by C T
typo

[dwai]

I find that if we drop the identity of doer, not doing is easy. If there is a doer, then doing is natural and not-doing is unnatural. 

[C T]

5 minutes ago, dwai said:

I find that if we drop the identity of doer, not doing is easy. If there is a doer, then doing is natural and not-doing is unnatural. 

 

Not sure about others, but for me, dropping that identity and allowing it to remain dropped is a lifetime practice in mindfulness.

It has a sneaky way to keep creeping back in thru the emergency exits  

[dwai]

1 minute ago, C T said:

 

Not sure about others, but for me, dropping that identity and allowing it to remain dropped is a lifetime practice in mindfulness.

It has a sneaky way to keep creeping back in thru the emergency exits  

Who's practicing the mindfulness?

[C T]

14 minutes ago, dwai said:

Who's practicing the mindfulness?

 

The relative self i guess. 

[Stosh]

21 minutes ago, dwai said:

Who's practicing the mindfulness?

I figure the mindfulness would be doing itself ,rather than being the practitioner. 

[dawei]

2 hours ago, dwai said:

Who's practicing the mindfulness?

 

I'm not sure if you're just asking a trick question here 

 

My understanding of your asking is:  If you have dropped the doer, you have dropped practicing... so what is mindfulness now?

 

From that level of practice, there is no doer and no practice... it is just what at that point?   

[doc benway]

While it's nice to talk about dropping the doer permanently, few of us are close to that.

Mindfulness is the indispensible tool of the practitioner to return and continue.

[Spotless]

3 hours ago, rainbowvein said:

 

Hi spotless.

 

No, no protecting out of fear on my end.  

I didn't think so and I liked the way you wrote it - so many grab onto "protection" as an offensive and a defense - discernment is completely different.

[Fa Xin]

11 hours ago, dwai said:

Beautifully articulated.

Not meaning to argue, but I am genuinely curious. what is it that one has? Who is it that has or does not have something? My experience is that more we try to hold on to something, more it binds us in a prison. As soon as we let go of the desire to hold on, we are free to grow and learn more. And strange thing is, what we let go the desire to hold on to, stays with us more gracefully. 

Nicely put Dwai. 

 

Obviously, you don’t want someone to take advantage of you energetically. I had a teacher who I felt was doing something to that effect. It may have been my own mind and fears. But I had to distance myself from it. 

 

Regardless of whether it was truly happening, the narrative in my mind said it was, and that was enough to spoil the whole practice for me. Listening to my intuition, there was probably a reason I felt that was happening. 

 

Luckily, I did not let it ruin the whole thing for me, and I put my trust in another person energetically, and it’s been nothing but awesome. No negative feelings whatsoever. 

 

The most important part of doing any energetic work is to listen to your intuition. Does it feel right? If not, better move on. There may be nothing negative happening in reality - but if you think there is, it will spoil it IMO. 

 

energy stuff seems to work if your fully committed and in 100% allowing and trust. It’s good not to give that away to any random person that comes along and says they can help you. 

 

At the same time, you do need to take a risk sometimes, in order to get a “reward”. At least in my experience. How are you ever going to move past “the self”, if you guard it from the world? 

Edited February 10, 2018 by Fa Xin

[Spotless]

Quote from CT

 

"According to some schools of Buddhist thought, the combined application of samatha and vipassana, which forms the basis of all other Buddhist meditative exercises across all the different traditions, is the practice that helps to identify, and to keep on identifying this invisible wedge so that the increasing recognition (awareness) leads to enabling the practitioner to gradually come to accept that there is indeed a wedge there (the primary cause), and to take responsibility in acknowledging that he or she has, as a result of past actions, brought this wedge into existence, acknowledge personal responsibility for current state one is in as a result of having allowed that wedge to remain stuck in place for x length of time, and then cultivate an unhindered willingness to take responsibility for future actions that will ensure the dislodgement of it. Its said this is a sure way to get back to wholeness. Ultimately, this sense of wholeness (nirvana) replaces the previous sense of fragmentation (samsara) - and non-doing (which implies an absence of the accruement of further karma) becomes a consequence, just as karma was a consequence of the prior state. "

 

This is posted as a sort of synopsis of what is "according to some schools of Buddhist thought" - but is veers into a "recipe" and it simply does not ever ever work that way (accept when it does - possibly🙃).

 

It does help to identify the invisible wedge - and however much one is in denial of it - practice and life in general present us with the wedge over and over until we become pestered to the point of giving up resistance somewhat- not by Responsible choice" but by exasperation, boredom and futility. It begins to set the stage for non-doing and putting away or simply leaving behind the fixit tools. Most of the healings that are sought are sought because of this wedge and resistance to the habituations we have wrapped around them - and the healings are often a perk to the resistance.

 

The wedge is not easily located - whereas a door stop wedge is clear and easily see - this is like a thousand hidden finger puzzles that we are invested in - and cumulatively they compromise us and sabatoge us time and again ad nausea.

 

It is then surmised that we "allowed the wedge" which in general is not true - that would assume we were capable of choosing where the pinball hit upon our bumpers and exactly what trajectory it would take next - we claw as best we can but a nice clean choice is miles from any sense of reality. The exasperation is a blessing - if it were tidy we would credit ourselves for it.

 

 

By the way I am not in disagreement with CT - just a comment of the wording.

 

 

 

 

[C T]

Thanks for taking the time to offer some feedback, Spotless. 

 

Just want to point that in the overall context of what I wrote, the 'wedge'  does not reference identification with any particular malady - it was used as an umbrella analogy for the human condition known as 'discontentedness'.