Remote two-person and group energetic practices

[Jonesboy]

5 minutes ago, Jetsun said:

 

Depends what they believe they are doing. Not wrong but if you mistake the power of the divine for your own it will inflate your ego rather than humble you and allow you to surrender. It's a very subtle area but the ego will try co-op whatever you do to try to bring it into its own domain, I know from personal experience. 

 

For example Jesus never took any credit for whatever miracles or healing that happened through him, he would say to the individual that their faith redeemed them. 

 

If divine grace is flowing through do you think you could achieve it with such ego?

Edited February 13, 2018 by Jonesboy

[C T]

5 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

I would say my tradition a much different.

 

We have multiple ways of helping people connect to the divine.

 

I have seen people experience the love of Jesus pouring out of them and then connect to Yahweh and feel a love that is ever growing flowing out of their hearts. All from the person helping them to experience these great beings doing nothing at all.

 

That divine grace is such a blessing as it helps to clear away in us that which keeps us from realizing that same divine nature.

 

yes, apparently very different perspectives, but no worries.. free will to all. 

[Jetsun]

Just now, Jonesboy said:

 

If such divine grace is flowing through do you think you could achieve it with such ego?

 

Yes, it goes in degrees, you don't have to be completely surrendered to gain access.

 

Do you think you folks who work with light are somehow beyond ego already? 

[s1va]

12 minutes ago, Jetsun said:

 

Depends what they believe they are doing. Not wrong but if you mistake the power of the divine for your own it will inflate your ego rather than humble you and allow you to surrender. It's a very subtle area but the ego will try co-op whatever you do to try to bring it into its own domain, I know from personal experience. 

 

For example Jesus never took any credit for whatever miracles or healing that happened through him, he would say to the individual that their faith redeemed them. 

 

On the other hand, Krishna took credit for everything he did. But, when he says 'I' or 'Me' in Gita, it can mean two things.  In some instances, he talks of himself as Krishna, the friend of Arjuna and king of Yadhava clan.  There are other instances where he uses 'I' or 'Me' in a much broader sense to indicate. he is talking from the standpoint of non-dual Brahman.

 

If some one has non-dual experience and sees no seperation, then they might very well use the 'I' in the broader sense, like how it really means to them in the expanded sense.  To an onlooker, it might seem like the person is taking out of inflated ego.  Even in Gita, Arjuna gets confused and challenges Krishna, when he states he gave some knowledge in the beginning of creation to Sun God.  

 

Granted, everyone is not Krishna or Jesus.

 

Edit: The point I was trying to make was, each master from the past acted in some different or unique ways.  We can't compare actions against any one for validation.

Edited February 13, 2018 by s1va

[Jonesboy]

3 minutes ago, Jetsun said:

 

Yes, it goes in degrees, you don't have to be completely surrendered to gain access.

 

Do you think you folks who work with light are somehow beyond ego already? 

 

Nope, but such attachments would hold you back, light or not.

 

Are you just assuming stuff about others and their practices or it is from personal experience you have been talking about?

[Jetsun]

3 minutes ago, s1va said:

 

On the other hand, Krishna took credit for everything he did. But, when he says 'I' or 'Me' in Gita, it can mean two things.  In some instances, he talks of himself as Krishna, the friend of Arjuna and king of Yadhava clan.  There are other instances where he uses 'I' or 'Me' in a much broader sense to indicate. he is talking from the standpoint of non-dual Brahman.

 

If some one has non-dual experience and sees no seperation, then they might very well use the 'I' in the broader sense, like how it really means to them in the expanded sense.  To an onlooker, it might seem like the person is taking out of inflated ego.  Even in Gita, Arjuna gets confused and challenges Krishna, when he states he gave some knowledge in the beginning of creation to Sun God.  

 

Granted, everyone is not Krishna or Jesus.

 

Yeah that is true, yet it's only true to say that when speaking directly from that place. 

[Jetsun]

1 minute ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Nope, but such attachments would hold you back, light or not.

 

Are you just assuming stuff about others and their practices or it is from personal experience you have been talking about?

 

Yes it holds you back, but I'm yet to meet anyone who is a completely pure conduit without issues holding them back (except maybe Ammachi who can give blessings non stop for over 16 hours without a break or rest).

 

I'm talking about personal experience, but as far as I can it applies universally. 

[dwai]

10 minutes ago, Jetsun said:

 

Yes, it goes in degrees, you don't have to be completely surrendered to gain access.

 

Do you think you folks who work with light are somehow beyond ego already? 

Ego is a matter of misidentification, is it not? If one ascribes actions and doership to the body-mind, then that is ego. 

If one ascribes actions to "That one without a second", then is it still ego? 

 

I used to think the way you present this predicament too. However,  I don't think one can do a lot of what happens in light work without relinquishing doership at the body-mind level. 

[Jonesboy]

Just now, Jetsun said:

 

Yes it holds you back, but I'm yet to meet anyone who is a completely pure conduit without issues holding them back (except maybe Ammachi who can give blessings non stop for over 16 hours without a break or rest).

 

I'm talking about personal experience, but as far as I can it applies universally. 

 

Receive the grace.

 

Worrying about what attachments they have is an endless game of ego and yes fear.

 

Obviously they have less than you or else the grace wouldn't flow through. Accept what is offered.

 

I know I feel blessed each time I do.

[s1va]

5 minutes ago, Jetsun said:

 

Yeah that is true, yet it's only true to say that when speaking directly from that place. 

 

That's true.  But, only the person speaking from that place will know, whether he/she is truly there or not.  I can't pass judgments on who got there or not, whether some person really got there, etc.  It's subjective and each person's belief at this point. 

[dwai]

5 minutes ago, s1va said:

 

That's true.  But, only the person speaking from that place will know, whether he/she is truly there or not.  I can't pass judgments on who got there or not, whether some person really got there, etc.  It's subjective and each person's belief at this point. 

Often we can tell if we are receptive enough, if someone is speaking from ego or from a "higher" place. The words of such individuals does something to us. Then it is the "Tadekam is talking to the tadekam". But I also noticed the it can generate strong feelings of ego resistance. It is because the local mind/ego doesn't like to be overridden (subconsciously). 

 

When I started with my Master, I would find myself reacting to him with ego for no apparent reason. I'd be like "What...he doesn't recognize how great I am, with my all 13 years of Taiji practices and spiritual knowledge?!!?? "  But I was detached enough by then to recognize that it was the ego, and nothing more  

 

That imprinting (of tadekam to tadekam) is very subtle and will result in reactions on the recipients' end.

[s1va]

1 minute ago, dwai said:

Often we can tell if we are receptive enough, if someone is speaking from ego or from a "higher" place. The words of such individuals does something to us. Then it is the "Tadekam is talking to the tadekam". But I also noticed the it can generate strong feelings of ego resistance. It is because the local mind/ego doesn't like to be overridden (subconsciously). 

 

When I started with my Master, I would find myself reacting to him with ego for no apparent reason. I'd be like "What...he doesn't recognize how great I am, with my all 13 years of Taiji practices and spiritual knowledge?!!?? "  But I was detached enough by then to recognize that it was the ego, and nothing more  

 

That imprinting (of tadekam to tadekam) is very subtle and will result in reactions on the recipients' end.

 

Agreed -- entirely with what you stated.  All, I was trying to say was, I can't say your master or some one else did not get there, and only who I think got there, really got there  hope that makes sense.  This is all from our own experience, I can't challenge another's belief or experience.  It is valid to them as my experiences are to me. Yes, our insides will know.

[dwai]

Just now, s1va said:

 

Agreed -- entirely with what you stated.  All, I was trying to say was, I can't say your master or some one else did not get there, and only who I think got there, really got there  hope that makes sense.  This is all from our own experience, I can't challenge another's belief or experience.  It is valid to them as my experiences are to me. Yes, our insides will know.

Yeah I understand what you said  

Was saying that we *CAN* (and DO) know if we listen carefully, only the ego overrides it as a reaction.

[Jetsun]

20 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Receive the grace.

 

Worrying about what attachments they have is an endless game of ego and yes fear.

 

Obviously they have less than you or else the grace wouldn't flow through. Accept what is offered.

 

I know I feel blessed each time I do.

 

There are some very powerful people who seemingly bring in divine love who I wouldn't work with. It is a matter of discernment. 

 

There was one spiritual teacher from Eastern Europe who used to do world tours and bring in big crowds. People who attended her meetings would say that they felt so much love in her presence , to the extent that they would start falling in love with her neglecting their partners. Some people I know who work with energy attended her meeting and got suspicious when they started to fall in love with her too, so they did some energetic interventions to stop the hook and to stop her from hooking others in. The next week she cancelled all her tours and has never toured again. She was hooking people in in a way which felt like a divine blessing but actually was malicious. 

 

 

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, Jetsun said:

 

There are some very powerful people who seemingly bring in divine love who I wouldn't work with. It is a matter of discernment. 

 

There was one spiritual teacher from Eastern Europe who used to do world tours and bring in big crowds. People who attended her meetings would say that they felt so much love in her presence , to the extent that they would start falling in love with her neglecting their partners. Some people I know who work with energy attended her meeting and got suspicious when they started to fall in love with her too, so they did some energetic interventions to stop the hook and to stop her from hooking others in. The next week she cancelled all her tours and has never toured again. She was hooking people in in a way which felt like a divine blessing but actually was malicious. 

 

 

Very interesting story.  Who was it? I would be interested in researching it a little.

[Jonesboy]

11 minutes ago, Jetsun said:

 

There are some very powerful people who seemingly bring in divine love who I wouldn't work with. It is a matter of discernment. 

 

There was one spiritual teacher from Eastern Europe who used to do world tours and bring in big crowds. People who attended her meetings would say that they felt so much love in her presence , to the extent that they would start falling in love with her neglecting their partners. Some people I know who work with energy attended her meeting and got suspicious when they started to fall in love with her too, so they did some energetic interventions to stop the hook and to stop her from hooking others in. The next week she cancelled all her tours and has never toured again. She was hooking people in in a way which felt like a divine blessing but actually was malicious. 

 

 

 

That sounds more like a bad guru connecting and manipulating people. You don’t have to have access to the divine to do such things.

 

Very interesting.

 

Thank you.

[Jeff]

Just now, Jonesboy said:

 

That sounds more like a bad guru connecting and manipulating people. You don’t have to have access to the divine to do such things.

 

Very interesting.

 

Thank you.

 

Actually, I would say that you are definitely not accessing the divine if some people could also stop it with energetic interventions. 

 

[C T]

24 minutes ago, Jetsun said:

 

There are some very powerful people who seemingly bring in divine love who I wouldn't work with. It is a matter of discernment. 

 

There was one spiritual teacher from Eastern Europe who used to do world tours and bring in big crowds. People who attended her meetings would say that they felt so much love in her presence , to the extent that they would start falling in love with her neglecting their partners. Some people I know who work with energy attended her meeting and got suspicious when they started to fall in love with her too, so they did some energetic interventions to stop the hook and to stop her from hooking others in. The next week she cancelled all her tours and has never toured again. She was hooking people in in a way which felt like a divine blessing but actually was malicious. 

 

 

 

The very reason I urged people to 'test' self-proclaimed conduits of whatever they profess to channel. 

[Jeff]

20 minutes ago, C T said:

 

The very reason I urged people to 'test' self-proclaimed conduits of whatever they profess to channel. 

 

Makes sense to me.  Also, once Jetsun gives us the details I think it would make a interesting topic to discuss in a new thread. 

[C T]

22 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Makes sense to me.  Also, once Jetsun gives us the details I think it would make a interesting topic to discuss in a new thread. 

 

Where I come from (SE Asia) such abuses in the name of spiritual benediction is rampant. 

It is deeply disturbing and saddening, some of the victim accounts I have heard over the years. 

And it continues to happen because human nature has that in-built gullibility, especially when it comes to 'divine intervention'. 

India is another country where so-called spiritual scams are extremely common, and in some places there are accounts of such scams being manipulated by the Indian version of the mafia. lol 

 

a crass example below (others can be much much sweeter and subtler)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by C T

[Jetsun]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

 

Very interesting story.  Who was it? I would be interested in researching it a little.

 

I will try find the name for you 

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, C T said:

 

Where I come from (SE Asia) such abuses in the name of spiritual benediction is rampant. 

It is deeply disturbing and saddening, some of the victim accounts I have heard over the years. 

And it continues to happen because human nature has that in-built gullibility, especially when it comes to 'divine intervention'. 

India is another country where so-called spiritual scams are extremely common, and in some places there are accounts of such scams being manipulated by the Indian version of the mafia. lol 

 

a crass example below (others can be much much sweeter and subtler)

 

 

 

 

I have also seen the "evil guru" energy effects a few times with people here in the US.  Also, some pretty nasty energy things.  The spiritual "con man" people are not really interesting to me.  We have the same type of people with giant church ministers running spirituality church scams.  My interest is more with people/beings that generate an actual energy effect that directly effects people for more selfish purposes ( what I call an "evil guru").