Jonesboy Posted February 16, 2018 One of the biggest and hardest things along the spiritual path is dealing with our attachments, our issues that we get caught up in daily life. I was wondering what methods others use when caught up in an issue or what do they do if anything specific to help them let go of an attachment? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fa Xin Posted February 16, 2018 Good thread Jonesboy. I find a simple “recentering” helps sometimes. Just focusing on your awareness, the sensations of your body, your breath, or relaxing into awareness. Doesnt work all of the time, but it’s one of the things I’ve found that helps. Something that “turns your focus away from the issue”, to give you space to see thru it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) While the writing of this lesson is a little new age, shamanistic it is based on a Buddhist sutra and I have found that if you can find the underlying energy of the upset as presented it becomes a powerful method of getting past and letting go of our attachments. The lesson to me is also a powerful lesson in teaching someone how to reside. Spoiler LANDING OUT OF THE MENTAL PLANEThe common denominator within any encounter of being upset is that we feel a level of discomfort. Instinctively, when confronted by an upset, we react through an expression of: Emotional feelings. By entertaining mental thoughts forms or stories. Through outwardly projected physical behavior. Whether we are aware of it or not, no matter what reactive approach we take when upset, by reacting to the upset we are attempting to sedate and control what we perceive is happening to us from our awareness. And, all sedation and control in the face of an upset is "the pushing of our shadow away from us", and consequently, a forced ascension of our awareness into the mental plane. The more we push away at the experience of "being upset", the more ungrounded we become.When we consciously observe an upsetting experience we real eyes there are three distinct aspects to it; a physical, mental, and emotional: The physical aspects are the circumstances or person/s that triggered the upset, and they are also the physical behaviors we are considering initiating as a consequence of whatever occurred. The mental aspect is the story we are telling ourselves about what happened, who did what, why it happened, and whose fault it was. The emotional aspect is how this upset is causing us to feel. The emotional aspect of any upset is accessible to us as both an uncomfortable feeling state, and emotion which we may call fear, anger, and/or grief, and as a corresponding physical sensation anchored within our body.Here are a set of instructions inviting you to consciously enter the grounding experience we are discussing: Remember the most recent occasion in which you felt upset. Notice how you use the mental plane as a corridor to recall the details of the incident; it obediently delivers your attention to the moment of the incident that initially triggered you. This is a useful application of the mental plane; using it as a means to fly your attention from one moment to another – whether this moment is currently unfolding or is already past. To enter a portal of upset you may also choose an upsetting experience from the past that has been festering within your thought forms right up to this present moment. You will find that your awareness of any past unintegrated event diminishes and seemingly completely disappears when you are busy and engaged within life’s demands, (which may be why you engage yourself so actively in so many "doings"). However, as you try to go to sleep at night, or as you awake in the morning, its resonance of disquiet dutifully returns. This type of upset is ripe for the picking. Whatever is upsetting you, whether something happening right now, or something from the past that is still nagging at you, is a way in.As you recall the upset of your choosing, instead of engaging in the mental aspect of the experience, or upon the physical actions you may be considering, place your attention fully on "the feeling" accompanying it. Take note of where this uncomfortable feeling is located as a physical sensation in your body. It does not matter what you call this uncomfortable feeling, whether it is fear, anger, and/or grief. Your only task is to feel it, and while feeling it, to simultaneously take note of where it is within your physical body. Whatever the uncomfortable emotional state is that accompanies the upset, it is also reflected as a physical sensation within your body. Your task is to place your attention within this physical sensation and to "cradle it". How? Momentarily bring to mind the image of The Madonna & Child: She is gently cradling the child in her arms; there is no movement within her posture, and no attempt to change or understand anything. Her only intention is to embrace the innocence contained within her arms. As you place your attention upon the uncomfortable feeling of this upset, cradle it in this manner; there is no physical movement required from your body, nor any mental participation in this practice other than using the mental body as a means to place and hold your attention fully within your physical body upon the sensational location of your emotional discomfort. As you cradle the uncomfortable feeling with your attention, keep your eyes open. Yes, open. As you place your attention upon the feeling within, do not close your eyes and escape from the outer physical reality of the moment you are currently engaging. The eyes you place upon this inner discomfort, the eyes that have the capacity to "feel", are the eyes of the heart. While the eyes of the heart attend to this inner feeling, allow the eyes of the physical body to rest in stillness, open, gently embracing the presence of the outer world. Notice how, as you place the eyes of the heart on the inner feeling, you instinctively want to close your eyes and disappear. This is the old habit of "mentally running away" which has often been disguised as "a spiritual practice". Do not leave, do not fly off, stay here.Now, if you choose to, place this piece of writing down, and enter this practice for a few minutes. Pay attention to the inner and outer experience it initiates. Here are the instructions for brief review:Remember the most recent occasion in which you felt upset.As you recall the upset, instead of engaging your attention in the mental aspect of the experience, or in the physical actions you are considering taking, place your attention fully on the accompanying feeling. take note of where this feeling is located as a physical sensation in your body. Cradle this feeling in that location.As you cradle the uncomfortable feeling with your attention, keep your eyes open. Simultaneously watch both the inner feeling and the outer world.Do not be concerned if you struggle to keep your attention hooked onto the feeling aspect of the recalled upset. Remember that the eyes of the heart are weak because we live upon a planet that does not consciously develop them or appreciate what they are able to show us. The eyes of the heart develop organically through our consistent use of them.When approaching an upset consciously in this manner, by placing our full attention on the felt-aspect of the experience, instead of escaping into mental activity or any physical behavior the mental plane encourages, we notice almost immediate occurrences: We begin feeling more grounded into our life experience. This is because these uncomfortable feelings lead us directly into an awareness of the shadow we run away from, and by consciously drawing the shadow towards us, we approach the runway of reality. Approaching the experience of "being grounded" may be so unfamiliar to us, that as we consciously engage our landing gear, we experience a sense of anxiety. It is a bit like the moment just before a plane’s wheels impact the runway; there is a sense of "holding on" or "holding back". However, the moment we allow ourselves to relax into the uncomfortable felt-resonance within the upset we are recalling, we gradually come down to earth and appreciate the groundedness initiated by the experience. This grounding causes a sense of relief, just like the moment after touching down on the runway and knowing we are once again safely upon the earth.Once we are grounded into the physical location of the feeling within our body, we notice that an energetic movement begins within this sensation. The actual sensation through which the uncomfortable emotional state is anchored into our physical body, which has been stuck or blocked, starts transforming. It transforms because our awareness is our tool of transformation. Often this inner movement is experienced as an upward rise of energy through our chest area and up into our head which may culminate in tearing up. Yes, as we sink down into it, it rises up! Who would have thought?outwardly, we also notice that the more grounded into the inner feeling we become, the more alive, vital, and animated the world around us becomes. Our experience of being here upon earth ceases to appear as a flat inanimate encounter, but instead takes on a textured hue, an energetic aura. This is because we, through consciously grounding ourselves, arrive more fully into the present moment of our current experience. Only when we allow ourselves to engage fully with the moment we are in now do we real eyes how heavenly this earthly experience is.GARDENING OUR HEARTIt is up to us to give ourselves the experience of the consequences of consciously gardening our heart. If we require "understanding" before we are willing to take on this responsibility, it is only because we are trying to comprehend what is being offered here from our seat within the maze of the mental plane. The heart cannot be understood; it can only be engaged. Only when we engage our heart do we enter a marriage made in heaven.The following simple practice, when engaged consistently, shows us, through personal experience, that it is the garden of the heart from which all the fruits of a joyful, healthy, and abundant life experience are seeded, cultivated, and harvested. It is also from within the garden of the heart that we consciously awaken to the experience of the conscious death that fruits eternal rebirth. By tending to the garden of the heart consistently each day, we experience the miraculous. It reveals to us what it really means to "love and take care of ourselves"; to stand by ourselves no matter what. To initiate this encounter with the heart it is recommended we tend to our garden for a few minutes at the beginning and the end of each day, and also in the midst of any unexpected upset. This is how simple it is:We sit comfortably in a quiet place where we will not be interrupted. (If we truly seek to be authentic when entering this practice, we switch our cell phone to "off". Otherwise, we are just doing this because nothing else is currently stealing our attention.)We recall an upset, whether it is something that happened recently, or something currently festering within our physical, mental, and emotional experience.We drop the story and the details of the physical events surrounding it, and instead place our attention fully on "how we feel about it".Where seek out where we feel this discomfort within our body? We place our attention within this location and "cradle it".While keeping the eyes of our heart upon the uncomfortable feeling within our body, we simultaneously keep our physical eyes open, and in a relaxed manner, we observe the world before us.We observe how the inner feeling moves, and how, as it does, the outer world simultaneously increases in presence.When we stray off into the mental again, we gently bring our attention back into the inner feeling within our body and simultaneously upon the presence of the outer world.We cradle this experience for as long as we feel necessary.NOTE: If we do not have an upset to consciously work with, we enter the practice by consciously placing our attention within the center of our chest and hold it there, following the above instructions, until we feel complete. The practice of consistently placing of our attention within the center of our chest is equally powerful in initiating "the death experience" that invites the blessing of rebirth within all unintegrated aspects of our life experience. Eventually, through this practice, we discover that the feelings of discomfort underlying our unintegrated upsets are gradually integrated and replaced by stillness, silence, and a sense of balance and peace within our heart. Over time these feelings of balance and peace organically radiate into our thoughts and are reflected back through our outer physical circumstances.As a consequence of daily and consistently facing our shadow and grounding ourselves through it, we begin also decreasing our addiction to escaping into the mental plane as a means to initiate a change in the quality of our life experience. We discover, when consistently attending to the garden of the heart in this way, by watering, weeding, and fertilizing it with our cradled attention, that it gradually lifts unnoticed veils and reveals the depth of the immensity of the life experience available to us all in each moment. By attending to the heart in this manner, the teachings we receive internally through revelation free us of "following others", of wandering through endless conceptual spiritual mazes, and of "the seekers seemingly unscratchable itch". This practice gradually frees us of "spiritual delusion", or "the spiritual disease", as Adyashanti aptly calls it.As we become familiar with "the death experience", and surrender to the companionship of its divine presence within the ever-changing currents of our life, we are reborn, again, and again, and again. This rebirthing nourishes a deepening awareness of what it means "to live fully within the radiance of the present moment". Entering life more fully, by consciously and consistently entering the heart, really is this simple. However, to fully receive the revelation of the simple teaching shared here, requires experientially entering "the heart of the matter" as a way of being in this world and not as "something we need to do, and get over with, so that we can get on with something else". This teaching and the consequences it initiates is the Dharma of The Sacred Heart."It’s not about feeling better – it’s about getting better at feeling." Edited February 16, 2018 by Jonesboy 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted February 16, 2018 I would focus on if this attachment..now becoming an issue, is a part of a larger karmic force acting on you. What I mean is that this is a single attachment with a single entity you are dealing with. This attachment could be the result of some larger worldview you are more or less attached to. For an example, you may have some issues with a particular person. Maybe you are attaching to this person even though this person is hurting you. The reality is that this person isn't really the problem at all. You actually have issues with the type of people or worldview you have. There are people hopping from one attachment to another because they think they only have issues with one single attachment or a person. In reality, is the type of world or worldview they are following and living under. Once you know what it is in its actual context, you can really free yourself from all future possible attachment. You can see that there is this worldview or underlying paradigm you have been living under by examining how many times you have encountered similar attachment issues. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted February 16, 2018 To me that is just one thought chasing another. Forget the reason, forget the world view. What you think could be the issue could just be the tip of something larger. That is why it isn't about figuring out what the issue is, it is moving beyond the mind, beyond the thoughts and residing in the energy of the obstruction. As we gain more silence in daily life we are able to feel the flows of those thoughts as energy, we have moved beyond getting caught up in them. This residing in the energy of the attachment is the same thing. Now this isn't a quick fix. I have sat with this energy when dealing with a big issue for hours at times but I can say it does work. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted February 16, 2018 It depends on the context of your attachment.. You can't say you have issues with attachment but you don't know how they manifest themselves in your life. You can't say you are attached to certain energy....in its non-dual state. This energy becomes a problem for you because it has become differentiated. It has its discriminating state. The Sutra does not tell you how these attachment manifest themselves because they were written thousands of years ago. Life back then was much simpler..... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted February 16, 2018 FYI, a non-dual energy state is rigpa, the Tao, the Dharmakaya. There would be no attachment because there's nothing to attach to. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted February 16, 2018 41 minutes ago, ChiForce said: It depends on the context of your attachment.. You can't say you have issues with attachment but you don't know how they manifest themselves in your life. You can't say you are attached to certain energy....in its non-dual state. This energy becomes a problem for you because it has become differentiated. It has its discriminating state. The Sutra does not tell you how these attachment manifest themselves because they were written thousands of years ago. Life back then was much simpler..... Nobody is talking about being attached to certain energy. Did you read the post? All things are energy, you are energy. When that energy hits on an obstruction it causes mental stories. The resolution isn’t to think about the issue and find the cause like oh my boss yelled at me. If thinking was the cure psychology would lead to realization and we know it doesn’t right? So finding the thought or the cause of the upset doesn’t remove obstructions. It is residing in that feeling, in the energy of the upset. It is that residing that will release the obstruction. Not thinking about it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted February 16, 2018 48 minutes ago, ChiForce said: FYI, a non-dual energy state is rigpa, the Tao, the Dharmakaya. There would be no attachment because there's nothing to attach to. Emptiness and Rigpa are two different things. Are you also saying that experiencing Rigpa is the same as Buddha Nature? I have not heard that claim before. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted February 16, 2018 This is what you wrote... "That is why it isn't about figuring out what the issue is, it is moving beyond the mind, beyond the thoughts and residing in the energy of the obstruction." All attachment. All state of suffering...are caused by 12 links of dependent origination. They never exist by themselves. They have no permanence. Not sure...you are arguing that attachment and suffering are nothing more than some obstruction of energy path. What is exactly your mind is attached to then??? What is this attachment you speak off as if attachment is nothing but some unpleasant energy being stuck somewhere in your chakras? Dreams? What do you dream? Do you dream about this attachment? If so...there's your answer..... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Jonesboy said: Emptiness and Rigpa are two different things. Are you also saying that experiencing Rigpa is the same as Buddha Nature? I have not heard that claim before. They are the same. Rigpa is non-dual energy state in which luminosity dominates your consciousness...nothing else. There is neither ups or downs or rights or lefts. You have no body. You only aware of your consciousness itself. Is the Dharma itself. Buddha Nature? I am not talking about a personality trait. I am talking about state of your mind before even manifesting itself to others. Rigpa can be experienced in dream during your sleep meditation. Only accomplished and advanced practitioners can experience it maybe once in a decade or so... Edited February 16, 2018 by ChiForce 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) Here you go..........yes..I have experienced it ONCE...few years ago. For about 5 seconds in the morning in my dream. THAT WAS IT..... http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Rigpa BTW, it appears you are resisting the idea that your attachment is caused by some dependent origination. You insist to argue that it is about energy....moving energy around. There isn't any point for me to participate in this discussion... Edited February 16, 2018 by ChiForce 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, ChiForce said: This is what you wrote... "That is why it isn't about figuring out what the issue is, it is moving beyond the mind, beyond the thoughts and residing in the energy of the obstruction." All attachment. All state of suffering...are caused by 12 links of dependent origination. They never exist by themselves. They have no permanence. Not sure...you are arguing that attachment and suffering are nothing more than some obstruction of energy path. What is exactly your mind is attached to then??? What is this attachment you speak off as if attachment is nothing but some unpleasant energy being stuck somewhere in your chakras? They are all truly just thoughts but the local mind can map them to chakras depending on the tradition. Have you ever felt energy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, ChiForce said: They are the same. Rigpa is non-dual energy state in which luminosity dominates your consciousness...nothing else. There is neither ups or downs or rights or lefts. You have no body. You only aware of your consciousness itself. Is the Dharma itself. Buddha Nature? I am not talking about a personality trait. I am talking about state of your mind before even manifesting itself to others. Rigpa can be experienced in dream during your sleep meditation. Only accomplished and advanced practitioners can experience it maybe once in a decade or so... Do you have any references to Rigpa in dreams? Can you share what that non dual energy state is like? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, ChiForce said: Here you go..........yes..I have experienced it ONCE...few years ago. For about 5 seconds in the morning in my dream. THAT WAS IT..... http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Rigpa BTW, it appears you are resisting the idea that your attachment is caused by some dependent origination. You insist to argue that it is about energy....moving energy around. There isn't any point for me to participate in this discussion... Void=form right? That form is energy. If Rigpa is a non dual energy state as you describe what keeps one from it? What are fears, addictions and upset? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
s1va Posted February 16, 2018 2 hours ago, ChiForce said: Here you go..........yes..I have experienced it ONCE...few years ago. For about 5 seconds in the morning in my dream. THAT WAS IT..... http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Rigpa BTW, it appears you are resisting the idea that your attachment is caused by some dependent origination. You insist to argue that it is about energy....moving energy around. There isn't any point for me to participate in this discussion... It just feels like two different ways to look at the same thing (attachment), from what I am reading. I could be wrong. If we look at it from the perspective of dependant origination, all attachment seems to be a result of that. At the same time it is also true that everything is energetic in ways. But, we go beyond words or analysis at certain point. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
s1va Posted February 16, 2018 2 hours ago, ChiForce said: They are the same. Rigpa is non-dual energy state in which luminosity dominates your consciousness...nothing else. There is neither ups or downs or rights or lefts. You have no body. You only aware of your consciousness itself. Is the Dharma itself. Buddha Nature? I am not talking about a personality trait. I am talking about state of your mind before even manifesting itself to others. Rigpa can be experienced in dream during your sleep meditation. Only accomplished and advanced practitioners can experience it maybe once in a decade or so... Do you mean to say Rigpa can be experienced only maybe once in a decade or so in dream by advanced practitioners? Can you please elaborate on that? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
七星門 Posted February 16, 2018 It seems the basic practice outlined in the article is mindfulness. Attempting to observe the phenomenon without being effected by it ("attachment") is not the same as the saying that the cause of the distress is attachment rooted in the grasping mind. What I mean is that the colors, tastes, sounds--sensory phenomena--act as things with which the grasping mind can use to anchor itself. The practice seems like more grasping, a very focused grasping, but grasping nonetheless. Sitting & forgetting (oblivion/emptiness/what have you) seems the cure rather than gritting the teeth & bearing it until it passes, which lends authenticity to the transient phenomena that arise as a result of attachment. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted February 16, 2018 Profound spiritual experiences are effulgent displays of rigpa - like strands of colourfully beaded hair connected to the head, but they are not the head itself, although they are also not separated from it. Underlying these experiences there is either a sudden or prolonged lapse in the habitual functions of dualistic mind, and one should recognise it as such to avoid confusing hair and head. Rigpa in its essence is not an experience, just as one does not say that hair is a result of experiencing the head. No wonder people remain confused over this term when they associate it with some sort of mystical or enlightening experience - unsurprisingly, there is that flittering feeling as if Rigpa is some kind of elusive butterfly. The most apt description of rigpa is original natural wakefulness. It is called 'original natural wakefulness' because its latent nature resides as a potential, and therefore rigpa cannot be fabricated, contrived, or manipulated. Its manifestation and ripening is proportionately dependent on the arduous and precise practices that are found in various Buddhist and Bon sects which must be applied with diligence in accordance with keeping of samayas and other austere requirements. Similar manifestations akin to rigpa may be found in other traditions and spiritual paths, but they are not exactly the same as rigpa, because rigpa, according to source teachings, have very specific and subtle connotations - so subtle that it can even vary from one Vajrayana lineage to another. As an analogy, think of rigpa like a way of learning a new approach to sleep that will ensure one wakes up completely refreshed. The potential of waking up completely rested, recharged and fully awake lies in the continued maintenance of this new way of falling asleep. If the maintenance of that particular approach to sleep drops, the force of the potential drops accordingly, and one then reaps the result directly proportionate to the level of potential tapped. So, with this analogy in mind, rigpa is like the relational force at play between the time of falling asleep and the condition one is in upon waking up, and that in turn determines the state of how the rest of the day goes. One can experience the effulgent effects, but not the actual relational process by which these effects manifest. Hence, the hair is not the head, though inseparable from it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, s1va said: Do you mean to say Rigpa can be experienced only maybe once in a decade or so in dream by advanced practitioners? Can you please elaborate on that? I think it is getting side tracked here. I brought up rigpa because we were talking about energy...energy is largely non-dual...no discriminating in its primordial nature. Nature of mind in its original form. There are no attachments because there are nothing to attach to. If you want to read up on it and to learn about the Tibetan sleep yoga, you can read this book here.... https://selfdefinition.org/tibetan/Tenzin-Wangyal-Rinpoche-The-Tibetan-Yogas-Of-Dream-And-Sleep.pdf Again, we are talking about attachment. Suffering originated from attachment caused by the arising dependent condition in this world. Attaching to what??? Energy? It can't be since energy by nature is non-dual. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) Detachment and Compassion are 2 of the most powerful energies we can use to untangle ourselves from the "nonsense" of life. Unblock and empower these forces within the energy body and your cultivation will be greatly enhanced. Edited February 17, 2018 by StormHealer 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) Yep. Detached compassion. But yes, attachments are difficult to get rid of. Especially if we have worked hard and honestly to acquire them. If our attachments are causing negative results then, for sure, we should rid ourself of them. But attachments that produce positive results? Why rid ourself of them? Edited February 17, 2018 by Marblehead 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted February 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Marblehead said: Yep. Detached compassion. But yes, attachments are difficult to get rid of. Especially if we have worked hard and honestly to acquire them. If our attachments are causing negative results then, for sure, we should rid ourself of them. But attachments that prodice positive results? Why rid ourself of them? Positive or negative, attachments bind us. Why be attached when we can be free? 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted February 17, 2018 2 hours ago, 七星門 said: It seems the basic practice outlined in the article is mindfulness. Attempting to observe the phenomenon without being effected by it ("attachment") is not the same as the saying that the cause of the distress is attachment rooted in the grasping mind. What I mean is that the colors, tastes, sounds--sensory phenomena--act as things with which the grasping mind can use to anchor itself. The practice seems like more grasping, a very focused grasping, but grasping nonetheless. Sitting & forgetting (oblivion/emptiness/what have you) seems the cure rather than gritting the teeth & bearing it until it passes, which lends authenticity to the transient phenomena that arise as a result of attachment. Focusing on the energy is a form of meditation. It is a focus of being that takes one beyond thoughts. Allows one to move beyond the upset. In no way should one grin and bear it. That would be the exact opposite of what one should do. This is about letting go as I use the word. Being, residing whatever word you prefer with that energy. Mindfulness occurs when one starts to experience silence in meditation. In daily life this is often referred to as The Witness. You are able to observe your thoughts and emotions without being caught up in them to one degree or another. What are those thoughts? What is that feeling that one has with upsets? Vioid=form, what is form? It is all energy/light. I would encourage you to work with the energy that is you, that is everything and no thing. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 17, 2018 24 minutes ago, dwai said: Positive or negative, attachments bind us. Why be attached when we can be free? I'm already free. I was speaking from your point of view. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites