Jonesboy Posted February 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Marblehead said: I'm already free. I was speaking from your point of view. Classic! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted February 17, 2018 11 hours ago, Marblehead said: I'm already free. I was speaking from your point of view. 😂 That’s why I used “we” and not “you” dear MH. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, dwai said: 😂 That’s why I used “we” and not “you” dear MH. And you know I was just messing with you, Right? I do that to only people I consider to be a friend. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted February 17, 2018 View the mind loops that come with attachments - begin to choose not to participate in them. We fortified the loops and develop them and we incorporate different centers within to them - emotional, intellectual, instinctual - blood, breathing - you can even notice the pitch of your voice change around them. Simply begin by viewing / noticing and not participating - you will be at once struck by the repetitive nature - the looping automation. Many of these will be your favorite things - topics - positions. This is a topic about positions and personal inertia's. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
s1va Posted February 17, 2018 18 hours ago, ChiForce said: Again, we are talking about attachment. Suffering originated from attachment caused by the arising dependent condition in this world. Attaching to what??? Energy? It can't be since energy by nature is non-dual. It's not attachment to energy. Attachment and desires arising out of residual karma, can be felt as blocks to the natural energy flow in the body. Anyway, all of this are just different attempts to describe the process in words. If the description of attachments with related to energy seems limited, so is the dependent origination. It's just another theory made up by human mind to explain things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted February 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Marblehead said: And you know I was just messing with you, Right? I do that to only people I consider to be a friend. Of course I do and I am happy and honored to be your friend 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mig Posted February 17, 2018 Aren't attachments all different, some are material, some are mental, some are influenced by others? Can someone be specific on attachments? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mig said: Aren't attachments all different, some are material, some are mental, some are influenced by others? Can someone be specific on attachments? Anything you can’t let go of is an attachment. Edited February 17, 2018 by dwai 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted February 17, 2018 3 hours ago, s1va said: It's not attachment to energy. Attachment and desires arising out of residual karma, can be felt as blocks to the natural energy flow in the body. Anyway, all of this are just different attempts to describe the process in words. If the description of attachments with related to energy seems limited, so is the dependent origination. It's just another theory made up by human mind to explain things. Can energy exist without intent? Can there be chi without the intent? I think the answer is no. It seems itself a contradiction to think that energy itself has its own will and can attach to things and to our mind without any efforts from your own intent. The 12 links of dependent origination is very thorough fyi... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted February 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Mig said: Aren't attachments all different, some are material, some are mental, some are influenced by others? Can someone be specific on attachments? All attachment is the same....mind and intent driven connection to things or people or persons or places....these connections can not be cut without causing suffering and mental anguish. Not all connections or affinity, driven by karma, is attachment however. Certain celestial beings may have connection to me or me to them but I won't suffer just because I am not making contacts to them. I may have connections to certain people or events or social injustice in this world. I won't cry and suffer just because these events are happening. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boundlesscostfairy Posted February 18, 2018 Think of a person like Edison.. who spent hours and hours, days and days trying to create a light bulb.. Would you say he had attachment to that? Well we need people with attachment to discover and do jobs.. both white and blue collar.. If the Buddha didnt have attachment to his meditation.. he would not have become the Buddha. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jetsun Posted February 18, 2018 In a sense attachments are addictions, and usually we only give up addictions when we clearly see we get absolutely nothing positive out of them. As long as we believe we need them or they serve us on some level we won't let them go. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted February 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said: If the Buddha didnt have attachment to his meditation.. he would not have become the Buddha. This is one attachment one should have until they have realized/awakened. He was not attached to his meditation but to his burning desire to learn how to be free from suffering. Meditation was just a means to an end. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted February 18, 2018 Dedication and attachment are radically different in their scope. A person, for example, sets a goal to climb Everest. He or she goes to great lengths prepping for the task ahead, making sacrifices, disciplined in putting aside physical and other mundane comforts, implementing austerities and what not to optimise conditioning mental and physical dexterity so as to ensure the best possible outcome in attaining the goal. Very often those who set their mind fervently on achieving something develop one-pointed determination to reach their destination. They have a vision that ordinary eyes dont have, and guided by this vision, they set out on a journey of discovery, fulfilling human potential. This is not an attachment in the ordinary sense of the word. Those who dont share a similar vision rarely have any real grasp on what lies behind the dedication, and could easily mistake the process as laden with attachments. Similarly, those who are devoted to a spiritual call or a divine mission are often misunderstood, and have been accused of various unpleasant things by well-meaning observers. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
s1va Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, ChiForce said: Can energy exist without intent? Can there be chi without the intent? I think the answer is no. It seems itself a contradiction to think that energy itself has its own will and can attach to things and to our mind without any efforts from your own intent. The 12 links of dependent origination is very thorough fyi... Yes, energy can and it does exist without any intent. Everything in the universe moves because of energy. Consciousness can be equated to Shiva and Energy to Shakti. The entire observed phenomena or universe is the result of the interplay between these two. These two just 'are', they exist without cause or intent. If we use the word energy in a narrow sense to limit to only certain things observed in the body, then it may require intent. Edit: those two are said to be the same at higher levels. Edited February 18, 2018 by s1va Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted February 18, 2018 7 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said: Think of a person like Edison.. who spent hours and hours, days and days trying to create a light bulb.. Would you say he had attachment to that? Well we need people with attachment to discover and do jobs.. both white and blue collar.. If the Buddha didnt have attachment to his meditation.. he would not have become the Buddha. Edison...??? Seriously? How about Einstein and various scientific revolution throughout the centuries? Being obsessed about science does not lead to break through. It only leads to fabricating data and to support their obsession. There are few recent cases in which Japanese scientists fabricating data on the AID's research in order to receive grant money and some other recognition. It comes to full circle in which some are justifying their attachment and obsession because humanity needs it to advance the human race....LOL LOL........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
s1va Posted February 18, 2018 1 minute ago, ChiForce said: Edison...??? Seriously? How about Einstein and various scientific revolution throughout the centuries? Being obsessed about science does not lead to break through. It only leads to fabricating data and to support their obsession. There are few recent cases in which Japanese scientists fabricating data on the AID's research in order to receive grant money and some other recognition. It comes to full circle in which some are justifying their attachment and obsession because humanity needs it to advance the human race....LOL LOL........ What's wrong with Edison? If the Buddha nature is in everyone, is it not on Edison also? Who am I to Judge? Alas! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, s1va said: What's wrong with Edison? If the Buddha nature is in everyone, is it not on Edison also? Who am I to Judge? Alas! is a weak analogy considering in the history of science from Galileo to Newton and to Einstein. Einstein's theory on relativity and space is largely being influenced by Eastern religions fyi. Each stage of scientific breakthrough requiring deconstructing certain existing scientific paradigm...basic assumption about our world. The people who are trying to uphold the existing scientific principles are those who are the most obsessed and attached. Their livelihoods, recognition, and fame depend on it. Pioneers, similar to Dharma practitioners, have specific insights into their worlds and can make breakthrough discoveries. These aren't attachments or obsessions....is called insights...revelations. Is the complete opposite of attachment. The OP tried to claim that only attachment and obsession can lead to more scientific discoveries. Attachment and obsession is the opposite..... Remember...attachment and obsession hate changes. You cut them off...the mind goes into a withdrawal...like crackheads not getting their daily high..... Edited February 18, 2018 by ChiForce Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
s1va Posted February 18, 2018 Just now, ChiForce said: is a weak analogy considering in the history of science from Galileo to Newton and to Einstein. Einstein's theory on relativity and space is largely being influenced by Eastern religions fyi. Each stage of scientific breakthrough requiring deconstructing certain existing scientific paradigm...basic assumption about our world. The people who are trying to uphold the existing scientific principles are those who are the most obsessed and attached. Their livelihoods, recognition, and fame depend on it. Pioneers, similar to Dharma practitioners, have specific insights into their worlds and can make breakthrough discoveries. These aren't attachments or obsessions....is called insights...revelations. Is the complete opposite of attachment. The OP tried to claim that only attachment and obsession can lead to more scientific discoveries. Attachment and obsession in the opposite..... Remember...attachment and obsession hate changes. You cut them off...the mind goes into a withdrawal...like crackheads not getting their daily high..... Each person is who or what they are. Unique and beautiful in their own ways. The rest of it, who is greater, good, bad, etc., (Edison vs. Einstein) springs forth from our own likes, dislikes, attachments and aversion towards concepts or persons. Would it make any difference to a sage who has equipoise and sees everyone with compassion? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted February 18, 2018 Just now, s1va said: Each person is who or what they are. Unique and beautiful in their own ways. The rest of it, who is greater, good, bad, etc., (Edison vs. Einstein) springs forth from our own likes, dislikes, attachments and aversion towards concepts or persons. Would it make any difference to a sage who has equipoise and sees everyone with compassion? I think your attachment to attachment is high here because you aren't seeing the point he is trying to make citing Edison. He is referring to scientific breakthrough and the need to become attached and obsessed... It has nothing to do with enlightenment or compassion. If he is not so attached to justify attachment, he would have used a better example... Here...I just show that why getting all attached and obsessed aren't good for the consciousness.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
s1va Posted February 18, 2018 Just now, ChiForce said: I think your attachment to attachment is high here because you aren't seeing the point he is trying to make citing Edison. He is referring to scientific breakthrough and the need to become attached and obsessed... It has nothing to do with enlightenment or compassion. If he is not so attached to justify attachment, he would have used a better example... Here...I just show that why getting all attached and obsessed aren't good for the consciousness.... It is always easy to find the attachment in others and point out. I have said enough on the topic. Best wishes. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted February 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, s1va said: It is always easy to find the attachment in others and point out. I have said enough on the topic. Best wishes. Remember...this thread is intended to point out why attachment and obsession are not good for the mind because they cloud your judgement. There are reasons why cultivators are trying to free themselves from them. Eyes would be rolling if someone just claims that attachment and obsession are the key to advancement of our consciousness and scientific breakthrough....even to enlightenment. Yes, they can serve as a springboard to enlightenment once you are free from them. They don't help you to reach enlightenment directly. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
s1va Posted February 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, ChiForce said: Remember...this thread is intended to point out why attachment and obsession are not good for the mind because they cloud your judgement. There are reasons why cultivators are trying to free themselves from them. Eyes would be rolling if someone just claims that attachment and obsession are the key to advancement of our consciousness and scientific breakthrough....even to enlightenment. Yes, they can serve as a springboard to enlightenment once you are free from them. They don't help you to reach enlightenment directly. I believe we have different understanding of this thread. I understood it to be, finding my attachments and to work on them. Anyways, it's fine. Good luck! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fa Xin Posted February 18, 2018 I can see how attachments can be good for the development of certain external things. Innovation and striving to better things. I think though, If we are here, on this thread... we are more concerned with liberation than invention. Its my experience that in order to really drop attachments, you must have experienced a lot of suffering thru those attachments. Or perhaps, seen how those attachments will lead to suffering. A scientist is too busy to see or maybe care about suffering. I can imagine that geniuses are tortured souls who probably suffer very deeply. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted February 18, 2018 Q : What's a brahmachari? Sadhguru : The word 'Brahmachari' literally means... Brahman means ultimate, Charya means the path. A brahmachari is someone on the path of the ultimate. Or in other words, a brahmachari is someone who is not willing to settle for small things. So anybody who has created anything worthwhile in their lives, in pursuit of that goal, have naturally denied themselves the simple pleasures that other people are having. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
