Annoying people

[hagar]

On trolls:

 

Sitting here at work, bored and stressed at the same time, trolls, as they are originally of Norwegian nationality

(http://library.thinkquest.org/12924/), are beings from wich I draw inspiration and solace.

 

Cat: Your posts rock.

 

Wayfarer: Hob-goblin?

 

Ian: Your suggestions are valid and should be the gold standard for any discussion board. I have been following your suggested approach to annoying people on this forum since I joined, but have recently started to have a change of heart in dealing with annoying people. (This does not mean that I don't find them annoying).

 

One thing about annoying people: They care.

 

As several have suggested, people are never actually annoying, only in relation to your own standards, metaphysics and temprament. Relationships are basically annoying, and burning alot of fuel to force them to be "civil" is sometimes a dead end. Then again, we have all seen how a forum can deteriorate when things get out of hand.

 

These days I find it comforting to see people able to reveal their neurosis, hang-ups, aggressiveness, arrogance or self-assurance. Either conscious or unconscious. It reveals their nature, and disposition, and for me that's more honest than someone who always are in control, always polite, always have their backs covered. They are, in a sense, not really there. It's more humane, or human in a sense, to be annoying, and maybe I enjoy that because I've always been somewhat of a tightass myslelf.

 

h

[neimad]

I like to annoy people.

[MASTERforge]

I have seen on some forums they have 'Ban' and 'spam' Icons.

 

Perhaps something similar that we can use? 'Troll' and 'flame' icons? This way we don't have to say anything just press the icon.

 

A picture paints a thousand words

[doc benway]

Here is an informative link...

http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/fieldguidetotrolls.htm

[rene]

Here is an informative link...

http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/fieldguidetotrolls.htm

 

xuesheng - great link, thanks. Not sure whether to laugh or cry because it was funny but it also described, in varying degrees, most of the people on every forum I've been to. Maybe troll "behaviour" is an out-of-control expression of things we share in common, being human and all. I'm not sure that embracing a "save a Troll" stance would do any good, since it's attention being sought - and there's no stronger attention than "Oh...you poor thing...let me help you become the right kind of interactor..."

 

Maybe the best we can do is to not become trolls ourselves, recalling that the shield of anonyminity isn't license to hurl our own particular brand of sick on others shoes.

[freeform]

if you're wondering why this happens, think to a time when you saw kids being really naughty just to get attention from their parents...

 

Attention is energy, and if starved for attention kids will do anything to get it... whatever tends to work when they're between 2 and 3 sticks as the major life pattern for most people...

 

So yeah most of us, I would suggest, have such a pattern going, it's just the extreme ones we tend dislike or get offended by.

 

If someone is being naughty, you can supplicate to the self fulfilling prophecy and get angry at them (this is a form of reward for people with this pattern), or you can indeed pay no attention - the energy flow dries up and they move on.

 

If, like Pietro, you prefer to 'help' or at least loosen the grip of this pattern for that person, I would suggest that it's very unlikely to happen on a forum - the type of energy shared over the internet is never the type of energy that transforms this kind of pattern... (it's the difference between mind and heart)

 

In person, it's a whole different question - the key here is to give full attention to them - there are not many people that are able to direct their full attention to one person (let alone a hostile or at the very least resistant person) - experientially it's like you open up a space in yourself that can contain them and their limitations, then you let the light of the dan tiens (yi?) bathe you/them...

 

I know a person that can do this very powerfully - people normally break down and cry... untill they start laughing - quite moving to watch, and very transformational to experience... I'm not sure if he can do this with an unwilling/actively resistant person... (is this what transmission is like?)

 

The thing is, he has so little 'stuff' in him that his attention is like a powerful beam of light - quite uncomfortable for most people - you know when you can sometimes feel if someone is staring at you from behind? well multiply that feeling by at least a thousand - it's like the beam of light shines through you and makes all the ego stuff apparent, and you become very embarrassed/naked/self-conscious. So he has to be really careful how he directs his attention...

 

until I develop anything even approximating this level of awareness, I wont try to fix people with deeply ingrained patterns - you have to take on the pattern and solve it in yourself before you can help to solve it in them, and I still have hundreds of my own patterns to solve before I start messing around with others.

[Pietro]

...

until I develop anything even approximating this level of awareness, I wont try to fix people with deeply ingrained patterns - you have to take on the pattern and solve it in yourself before you can help to solve it in them, and I still have hundreds of my own patterns to solve before I start messing around with others.

 

 

Freeform:

- all or nothing is a failure strategy. "Until I am able to ...,", is very often the same as saying, I will never...

 

If, like Pietro, you prefer to 'help' or at least loosen the grip of this pattern for that person, I would suggest ...

 

- I don't want to help them, but help me. It feels wrong to me to cut them out. As I don't like to be cut out, even when I might have a different point of view or be a bit crancky.

 

- In another corner of this forum, a well estabilished member threatened a new member to send him cancer. And all just escalated because the guy was being critique of the project discussed first (probably with good reasons), and quoted her in part (probably, again, with good reasons). In a community of people who are generally able to send/feel energy this can be quite unpleasant. Even when is meant as a joke. I like both those people. Probably more than they like me. But I DO NOT like this kind of behaviour (yeah, I am posting from Ireland). And when the whole community start to align behind this and that person, saying this is a troll, she is a well respected member, I see all sort of warning lights start flashing.

 

Treat people as human beings, and not as troll and they will generally respond in a similar way. And if they don't at least you have treated them as human beings, which is good for yourself. Right here, now. Not then!

[mat black]

I heard someone askk John DeRuiter "how can i recognise my shadows?' (i paraphrase here) He said, "by anything that annoys you. As soon as you are angry, you fail to see clearly."

 

If anything annoys us, it's not them/it, it's us that we need to look at. Something about what annoyed us from that person or thing is in us too - otherwise we simply wouldn't get annoyed. Like resonates with like.

 

FREEFORM

Attention is energy, and if starved for attention kids will do anything to get it... whatever tends to work when they're between 2 and 3 sticks as the major life pattern for most people...

So any reaction on our part will be a recognition of that behaviour which craves attention, and recognition re-enforces it.

 

FREEFORM

So yeah most of us, I would suggest, have such a pattern going, it's just the extreme ones we tend dislike or get offended by.

Yeah, there is a resonance with that object of annoyance that triggers a reaction in us too. Otherwise we would not be at all bothered by any type of behaviour.

 

So here's what we can do:

 

FREEFORM

experientially it's like you open up a space in yourself that can contain them and their limitations, then you let the light of the dan tiens (yi?) bathe you/them...

Beautiful. Nice one brother.

 

FREEFORM

The thing is, he has so little 'stuff' in him that his attention is like a powerful beam of light - quite uncomfortable for most people - you know when you can sometimes feel if someone is staring at you from behind? well multiply that feeling by at least a thousand - it's like the beam of light shines through you and makes all the ego stuff apparent, and you become very embarrassed/naked/self-conscious

Bhagawan Sri Ramana Maharshi comes to mind. Total unconditinal loving awareness harmonises all. I showed someon a picture of Sri Ramana and they became so uncomfortable that they could not look at him.

 

FREEFORM

until I develop anything even approximating this level of awareness, I wont try to fix people with deeply ingrained patterns - you have to take on the pattern and solve it in yourself before you can help to solve it in them, and I still have hundreds of my own patterns to solve before I start messing around with others.

When we change, the world changes as a side effect. The Hua Hu Ching says that the greatest gift we can give to world is that of your own awakening.

Yeah, it stars with us.

 

Thanks Freeform

 

PEITRO

Treat people as human beings, and not as troll and they will generally respond in a similar way. And if they don't at least you have treated them as human beings, which is good for yourself. Right here, now. Not then!

Awesome man. I reckon that's a golden statement.

Edited January 25, 2008 by mat black

[thelerner]

We are good. The depth of knowledge and understanding on this site can be awesome. Fantastic insights in the last couple posts, I hope a couple of them stick with me. If so I'll be a wiser man.

 

 

Michael

[Mal]

I tend to let people talk however they like, basically because I don't want to be noticed and also because they are not doing any physical harm. But this attitude can be tricky in real life. This is an old post I made on a kflist, did I handle things o.k.?

 

Mon Aug 1, 2005 4:23 pm

 

I was down at the local Chinese restaurant ordering my dinner. There were 4

really drunk guys, still drinking from their stubbies, Aussie for a bottle of

beer, just in case with a woman trying to look after them along with getting

the food orders (I actually knew her she works at a shop I go to.) Considering

they were literally falling down drunk, one fell over in the carpark trying to

eat a prawn chip they were quite well behaved, still friendly and having a

good time. So they spend the 10min waiting for all the orders and then the woman

gets them into their ute and they drive off.

 

Then in walks another woman with a toddler, yelling gruffly to everyone

"One of those men just grabbed his genitalis and shoved them at me. What a way

to treat Women!"

I can see that she is upset but personally I'm thinking she got off cheap not

having one falling all over the top of her and scare her kid so I say "They were

pretty drunk"

"So you think it's fine to treat women like that if you're drunk!"

I take a few seconds and look up to see her staring at me, obviously looking for

a fight, so I reply with

"I've got nothing more to say, just that some people are happy and some people

aren't and you're a good example"

EDIT: Guess I was not as friendly back then

Well she wanders off muttering something after placing her order.

 

But really what do people expect! They were obviously in from the country, rural

clothes and the ute as well as they way they talked for 10 min tell me that. And

they were really really drunk. Sure thats not the way to behave, but trying to

tell explain that to drunks is only going to get you a fight. Or a very long,

very loud conversation till the police arrive and seeing I'd had a smoke before

I went to get my food I didn't want that

 

But how do you know where to draw the line? With a physically violent situation

it's easy to know that help is needed. But while it's still a verbal

confrontation I tend to go with whatever gets you out without a fight. And that

includes not noticing the situation because sometimes all it take is a "what are

you looking at!" for things to get ugly. I noticed recently that I let a lot of

things like this slide, which isn't really helping keep up a "decent society"

but starting arguments that you can only see ending in a fight isn't part of

"decent society" either.

 

p.s. I should have belted them up as the guy who owns the shop is who I go to

for traditional Chinese medicine so he may have been able to give me some

fighting pointers

[Taomeow]

- In another corner of this forum, a well estabilished member threatened a new member to send him cancer.

Pietro,

that's the problem with getting entangled with Mutilators -- for it is a fine example of exactly how they work: they deliberately distort what is being said by mutilating other people's words, and make it all fuzzy in the readers' minds. Either she had something stolen from her, or she stole something from somebody, but since I didn't quite get what happened, I will think of her as a thief, just in case. This kind of fuzzy.

 

Reread what you're talking about, please. You're going on the Mutilator's quote that was put together out of mutilated snippets of what I really said responding to him after he introduced the idea of cancer, ascribing to me the desire to give it to him, a desire I never had and never expressed.

 

What I really said was I don't want my posts mutilated. Is all. I am fully capable of standing by my words, but if a professional Mutilator/Abuser is tolerated and creates the situation like the one he concocted once again and no one does anything about it, I won't be a member for much longer, whether respected or otherwise.

[rene]

... Reread what you're talking about, please. You're going on the Mutilator's quote that was put together out of mutilated snippets of what I really said responding to him after he introduced the idea of cancer, ascribing to me the desire to give it to him, a desire I never had and never expressed.

The idea was ascribed to Starjumper7. It stopped being about you pages earlier.

[Taomeow]

The idea was ascribed to Starjumper7. It stopped being about you pages earlier.

That's not how I understood what Pietro said, but in any event, those "pages eariler" are more malicious than anything I've ever seen online, and I've been around the block and seldom controversy-free, I'm sorry to confess. I hate the idea of PM complaints as a way out, so I'm just hoping and waiting for someone more sensible than eager to please "everybody" to remove that pile of abuse from the face of the forum. Like I said, it is not energetically sound to practice anything anywhere where there's sha' qi deliberately released. I would regret losing a good practice (even if "only" a keyboard practice) site -- but the I Ching tells me, "in dealing with weeds, firm resolve is necessary," and I believe her.

[Mal]

I am fully capable of standing by my words, but if a professional Mutilator/Abuser is tolerated and creates the situation like the one he concocted once again and no one does anything about it, I won't be a member for much longer, whether respected or otherwise.

so I'm just hoping and waiting for someone more sensible than eager to please "everybody" to remove that pile of abuse from the face of the forum.

 

I'm very surprised it upsets you this much. ?!?

[rene]

That's not how I understood what Pietro said, but in any event, those "pages eariler" are more malicious than anything I've ever seen online, and I've been around the block and seldom controversy-free, I'm sorry to confess. I hate the idea of PM complaints as a way out, so I'm just hoping and waiting for someone more sensible than eager to please "everybody" to remove that pile of abuse from the face of the forum. Like I said, it is not energetically sound to practice anything anywhere where there's sha' qi deliberately released. I would regret losing a good practice (even if "only" a keyboard practice) site -- but the I Ching tells me, "in dealing with weeds, firm resolve is necessary," and I believe her.

 

Sometimes sha'qi is deliberately released by someone though the manipulation of others. The "who started it" can be obscure to those who can only see so far; reactions can vary greatly. I agree that environment is vital to good practice.

[Starjumper]

The idea was ascribed to Starjumper7.

 

 

All I said was I knew how to do it. I think some people here are too busy reading too many posts.

 

This is what Taomeow wrote:

See -- the Wheel of Shadows ... I was kidding though about installing it -- no need for me to bother, it was successfully installed a long time ago and fully operational all your life.

 

This was the answer and the first mention of cancer:

well i am pretty sure that if you could you would give me cancer. but you cant. go practice on your mama.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Wayfarer64]

I too had a part in the anger and lack of compassion that arose, and do not regret all of my participation as such...

 

TaoMeow WAS misconstrued as I read it, and the rudness level was totally out of normal bounderies...

 

I chose to put the offending (to me) party in the ignore pile... Now that once again seems to have failed in its purpose...

 

 

We each have our own baggage.

My first ever post here was a response to Ron Jerimy doing his damndest to be an ass... I have been part of notorious flames with Denty etc etc... most of these were my attempts to gain some control of situations that disturbed me and or attempts at righting what I thought were real wrongs commited by another here in cyberspace...

 

Why did I think I could make a difference for the better or just make sure no one thought I went along with what I felt was reprehensible? It May be some of each...

 

Generally I just never back away from problems that disturb me. I go at them. I have softened some, but I hope I will always go at them. I also have to hope that I am in the right when I do so!

 

This forum was a very new thing for me when I joined; as I had had very little experience on line. I hope I have grown some since then.

 

When i read what was flung at Taomeow I felt provoked and responded with suggestions of prayer that later changed to swatting of the gnat -like pest etc & then a suggestion of acceleration as recomended by the Dalai Lama,

 

that was a great softening for me and I felt better for it in some ways... yet now I think my old way is more honest. I am a swatter of mesquitos.

 

My Buddhist (Cambodian), lover once chastized me for killing actual mosquitos in Asia, I likened them to communists and she said with some conviction that Buddha liked mosquitos but not communists...

 

So we will each have our views to see through and those views will change...

 

But if this crap forces the likes of TaoMeow off this great site we may need to look at our rules once again and pay some attention to our language -there are so many here now that things have changed, maybe I need to change my attitudes as well but that is within me to do...

 

I trust the strength of this community to pass through such BS and grow stronger not weaker...

I am at a lose for more to say just now (relief)...

[xenolith]

Tolerate by absence.

 

Bye.

[Starjumper]

But if this crap forces the likes of TaoMeow off this great site we may need to look at our rules once again and pay some attention to our language -there are so many here now that things have changed, maybe I need to change my attitudes as well but that is within me to do...

 

I trust the strength of this community to pass through such BS and grow stronger not weaker...

I am at a lose for more to say just now (relief)...

 

Each forum has it's own character. There are plenty of forums where there are big crowds of over eager youngsters who don't like to hear the voice of experience and it is guaranteed that some will attack it every time. It's sad, but I don't think anything can be done about it.

 

I used to be a member of the Buddhist forum on AOL, dominated by what we call armchair Buddhist, and what I call Western Wankers. Ever single time that a master would join that forum they would be ruthlessly attacked. Every time a person joined who thought they had an enlightenment experience and were curious about it they would be ridiculed and attacked.

 

And then there are forums, like the old Tao forum, where half the morons were arguing with each other about being enlightened. Talk about cheapening the concept, THAT was sad.

 

Some forums, like the tea House, have rules of politeness that are strictly enforced. Things are calmer there, perhaps too calm for some. On many forums the busiest threads are the ones that have fights. In our forum Taomeow and I wanted a quite place, one which is actually run by Taoists who are longtime practitioners. A place by and for practitioners, a sort of club like atmosphere. The mode of operation is favoritism, it's a place for friends who are mature and sincere, and when it gets busy enough we lock the door, close the blinds, throw away the key, and drop out of sight. Some will be grandfathered (and mothered =) in, after that newcomers will need to join by referral and a space available basis.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Starjumper7

[rene]

All I said was I knew how to do it. I think some people here are too busy reading too many posts.

Seems most of this started with you calling someone a liar, a weenie, and something else... it was funny but it sure got people cranked up. I'm new here but was starting to think that's how this forum operated, since there was so much ugly namecalling and insults being hurled in several threads, um, mostly by you.

 

His screen name makes people think 'proctologee'.

well since you give people cancer...your screen name should make people think "oncologee", no?

Nope, wrong again, since proctologee means 'victim of proctologist'.

Nor do I give people cancer, I only know how to do it. I prefer healing.

 

Glad to hear that you now prefer healing.

[Taomeow]

I'm very surprised it upsets you this much. ?!?

My teacher is Chinese, and you can't walk into his home without taking your street shoes off. If someone did, he would be upset, even though he could swat the offender with as much ease as Wayfarer's Buddhas swat mosquitoes. He would show it too I'm guessing, the fact that he's upset -- he's spontaneous, and wears his feelings on his sleeve.

 

Now someone walks into my thread, into my mind, into my idea of what level of contamination this forum normally tolerates wearing, not street shoes but shit-wading boots covered with all the glory of this particular Path, splattering it all over, leaving a smelly mess behind. Nevermind that I could swat him too, easily -- but who would want their participation in an online discussion to lead to a need to spend their time swatting THIS substance? Boring, dirty, and a theft of my time. Why would I bother stepping into something like this again if it was seen as business as usual, and became so?..

 

In the meantime, the mess is there. I humbly submit it needs to be cleaned up. I would patiently do it myself if I had the mop, just like my teacher would mop the floor if someone violated his rules of hospitality. But I don't own a mop on this forum. So I'm hoping whoever does might see my point. Just hoping...

[Starjumper]

Seems most of this started with you calling someone a liar, a weenie, and something else... it was funny but it sure got people cranked up.

 

Thank you, trolling used to be a great pastime for me, I like to keep my hand in it.

 

Yes, and the someone is Max, who has the most advanced spiritual practice in the world, where one hour of sitting equals a hundred years of any other practice. A practice where the teachers are kids, a bunch of friggin armatures who know the one and only real secret, yes folks, step right up, the circus is about to begin again.

 

Check out the other 'certified teachers' at the bottom of this page, LOL:

Kunlun's used car site.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Starjumper7

[rene]

Thank you, trolling used to be a great pastime for me, I like to keep my hand in it. Yes, and the someone is Max, who has the most advanced spiritual practice in the world, where one hour of sitting equals a hundred years of any other practice. A practice where the teachers are kids, a bunch of friggin armatures who know the one and only real secret, yes folks, step right up, the circus is about to begin again.

 

So much for prefering healing.

[Mal]

Now someone walks into my thread (?), into my mind, into my idea of what level of contamination this forum normally tolerates wearing, not street shoes but shit-wading boots covered with all the glory of this particular Path, splattering it all over, leaving a smelly mess behind. Nevermind that I could swat him too, easily -- but who would want their participation in an online discussion to lead to a need to spend their time swatting THIS substance?

 

I can sympathizes with that, the feeling of someone wrecking your nice house. It natural to want to wreck back and a spontaneous reaction is all good ............. but honestly doesn't this look like a personal shot

 

Mutilator,

don't mutilate my posts anymore or I'll install a Wheel of Shadows in your cochlea.

 

I have no wish to offend you further defending someone I doubt anyone here could say that they like. And perhaps he is a troll, they are gifted at pushing buttons. But he speaks nicely to me, got a good book recommendation and some bits and pieces so I can ignore the smelly boots.

 

But I'm noticing an increase in ............... well Sha Qi or general unease with the TTB community in the last few months.

 

Anyone else agree or disagree?

 

 

So much for prefering healing.

 

haha true SJ is another one with smelly boots, but at least he pours forth info (once again defending someone I doubt anyone here could say that they like)

 

I even like WYG

 

Sigh I'm glad I'm not a moderator

[Wayfarer64]

SJ-

 

I'm not sure that my 2 cents will find a bankable situation in yr mind-set, but i offer a slight critique that is meant to help you see yrself as others ( well -just me actually ...) - may see you... You pontificate and make assumptions that you can teach us something. There is no lack of hubris, only a lack of self-awareness in how you come across.

 

I just ask that you tone it down and try to take stock of the situation rather than assume that you know anything whatsoever... start blank... as if fresh from emptyness meditation. In other words heal thyself, before throwing around whatever it is that you throw...

 

I care very little for others' opinions in general ... until I hear/see/feel some true merit in them to follow what they say. There is just too much BS in our world to spend any time with fools... I trust that it is not a permenent condition.

 

I wish you well and do not preclude a friendship or real sharing in the future.

 

For now I shall forebare and hope that healing can take place for us all...