Key Verses for You?

[Fa Xin]

Hello,

 

Ive recently renewed my study in the TTC. Having fun with it and reviewing the threads here. 

 

I was wondering what are some of the key verses for everyone here? Which chapters struck a personal chord in you? Which do you feel capture the heart of some important aspects?

 

i should mention, my previous interest in this book was purely how it related to Taijiquan and Neijia in general. I read it looking for ways to help my practice. Now, I’m seeing it all in a different light. It’s cool to see how such a “simple” text can have profound unfoldings on many levels for many years. 

 

Thanks!

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Fa Xin

[CloudHands]

7

Edited April 15, 2018 by CloudHands

[Cybele]

I've been hanging out with 6 different versions of chapter 20 recently:

 

20

Leave off fine learning! End the nuisance
Of saying yes to this and perhaps to that,
Distinctions with how little difference!
Categorical this, categorical that,
What slightest use are they!
If one man leads, another must follow,
How silly that is and how false!
Yet conventional men lead an easy life
With all their days feast days,
A constant spring visit to the Tall Tower,
While I am a simpleton, a do-nothing,
Not big enough yet to raise a hand,
Not grown enough to smile,
A homeless, worthless waif.
Men of the world have a surplus of goods,
While I am left out, owning nothing.
What a booby I must be
Not to know my way round,
What a fool!
The average man is so crisp and so confident
That I ought to be miserable
Going on and on like the sea,
Drifting nowhere.
All these people are making their mark in the world,
While I, pig-headed, awkward,
Different from the rest,
Am only a glorious infant still nursing at the breast.

 

Just keepin' it light... 

 

This is from Brynner's translation.

 

[Marblehead]

31 minutes ago, Cybele said:

I've been hanging out with 6 different versions of chapter 20 recently:

 

Just keepin' it light... 

 

This is from Brynner's translation.

 

Yeah, that is a pretty different translation.  A lot of transliteration.

 

But still the point was made.

 

Lots of daily living advice in that little book if we take the time to actually read each word.

 

[OldDog]

The Heaven and Earth join, And the sweet rain falls, Beyond the command of men, Yet evenly upon all. - Ch 32, Lin

 

This is the verse of TTC that has drawn me back for many years. On first reading the attraction was intuitive, without understanding. Now, after many readings and much reflection, I see that it expresses in a few simple words several key ideas.

• It points to Tao, the source of all;
• It describes how things come about in the natural world, the creation of 10,000 things;
• It speaks to the impartiality of Tao;
• And, that it is done because it is self-so.

Lin Yutang's translation was my first exposure to the TTC. It has been my constant companion ever sense. Lin's rendering is almost poetic. Some would argue that a poetic interpretation is not a literal translation and is therefore lacking. I tend to disagree, at least in the case of Lin. The TTC teaches (Ch 1) that the Tao cannot be expressed in words. Poetry is a devise that is able to communicate ideas that are difficult to express. Such a device in the hands of a knowledgeable and skilled translator can be very enlightening. This is one reason why I favor Lin's translation and interpretation.

[Fa Xin]

This one has stuck out for me so far. 

Sorry about the photo - was easier than trying to copy and paste on my phone.

[Mig]

20 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

This one has stuck out for me so far. 

Sorry about the photo - was easier than trying to copy and paste on my phone.

What a personal chord struck in you? What did capture the heart of some important aspects of this chapter? What's heaven's mandate? Maybe you wonder why I am asking those questions? I went to the beginning of your posting and said, oh good, we will know what you are reading and having an understanding but then I read a chapter here and said to myself, this sounds pretty obvious and those are just words, put it in a nice style and then what? I have been surprised reading how some chapters are important but I never know what is it that makes you wonder, what is that make you think and what do you use in every day as a guide to your turbulent life.

[Fa Xin]

2 hours ago, Mig said:

What a personal chord struck in you? What did capture the heart of some important aspects of this chapter? What's heaven's mandate? Maybe you wonder why I am asking those questions? I went to the beginning of your posting and said, oh good, we will know what you are reading and having an understanding but then I read a chapter here and said to myself, this sounds pretty obvious and those are just words, put it in a nice style and then what? I have been surprised reading how some chapters are important but I never know what is it that makes you wonder, what is that make you think and what do you use in every day as a guide to your turbulent life.

Hi Mig,

 

Thanks for the great questions.

 

This chapter in particular to me represents kind of how all things are empty.  (It may be different to the next person)

Like the line,

 

"Watch the workings of all creation,

but contemplate their return to the source"

 

This reminds me how things are impermanent, that phenomena will rise and fall, but ultimately everything returns to the "Source" which could be the Dao, or emptiness, I don't know what you call it.  People will have varying opinions, and I am not one to say one way or another.

 

The "Mandate of Heaven" means to me - the sum total of all things.  The fact we are here right now, in this place, in these bodies - and no where else... just here. Did you choose to come here? Did you choose to manifest yourself in this time, this place? In 2018 Earth in whatever country? I know I didn't. I just kind of found myself here, by Heaven's Decree or whatever force deemed it necessary I be here (maybe for pure carnal amusement?)  I can either fight that... ask "Why me?" and struggle against "What is" ... or just kind of "Submit to heavens mandate" and find "tranquility" in that submission to the Dao/Heaven/God.

 

Once you submit to "heavens mandate", in my experience, things just kind of rise and fall, and return to the source.  It's like watching a play being performed, with it's ups and downs, but you know its all just Lila (a divine play).

 

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by Fa Xin

[hubi]

Verse 16 may also be interpreted as a way of contemplation that leads to mystical union with the Dao. In this context, "Returning to the source" would mean something quite specific. What is the root or source of this heart-mind, this present awareness? Here is another translation of 16 - this, by John C. H. Wu.

 

Attain to utmost Emptiness.

Cling single-heartedly to interior peace.

While all things are stirring together,

I only contemplate the Return.

For flourishing as they do,

Each of them will return to its root.

To return to the root is to find peace.

To find peace is to fulfill one's destiny.

To fulfill one's destiny is to be constant.

To know the Constant is called Insight.

If one does not know the Constant,

One runs blindly into disasters.

If one knows the Constant,

One can understand and embrace all.

If one understands and embraces all,

One is capable of doing justice.

To be just is to be kingly;

To be kingly is to be heavenly;

To be heavenly is to be one with the Tao;

To be one with the Tao is to abide forever.

Such a one will be safe and whole

Even after the dissolution of the body.

[Fa Xin]

3 hours ago, hubi said:

Verse 16 may also be interpreted as a way of contemplation that leads to mystical union with the Dao. In this context, "Returning to the source" would mean something quite specific. What is the root or source of this heart-mind, this present awareness? Here is another translation of 16 - this, by John C. H. Wu.

 

Attain to utmost Emptiness.

Cling single-heartedly to interior peace.

While all things are stirring together,

I only contemplate the Return.

For flourishing as they do,

Each of them will return to its root.

To return to the root is to find peace.

To find peace is to fulfill one's destiny.

To fulfill one's destiny is to be constant.

To know the Constant is called Insight.

If one does not know the Constant,

One runs blindly into disasters.

If one knows the Constant,

One can understand and embrace all.

If one understands and embraces all,

One is capable of doing justice.

To be just is to be kingly;

To be kingly is to be heavenly;

To be heavenly is to be one with the Tao;

To be one with the Tao is to abide forever.

Such a one will be safe and whole

Even after the dissolution of the body.

Thank you!

I'm beginning to see the positive side of having more than one translation !

[Mig]

On 3/3/2018 at 3:04 PM, Fa Xin said:

Hi Mig,

 

Thanks for the great questions.

 

This chapter in particular to me represents kind of how all things are empty.  (It may be different to the next person)

Like the line,

 

"Watch the workings of all creation,

but contemplate their return to the source"

 

This reminds me how things are impermanent, that phenomena will rise and fall, but ultimately everything returns to the "Source" which could be the Dao, or emptiness, I don't know what you call it.  People will have varying opinions, and I am not one to say one way or another.

 

The "Mandate of Heaven" means to me - the sum total of all things.  The fact we are here right now, in this place, in these bodies - and no where else... just here. Did you choose to come here? Did you choose to manifest yourself in this time, this place? In 2018 Earth in whatever country? I know I didn't. I just kind of found myself here, by Heaven's Decree or whatever force deemed it necessary I be here (maybe for pure carnal amusement?)  I can either fight that... ask "Why me?" and struggle against "What is" ... or just kind of "Submit to heavens mandate" and find "tranquility" in that submission to the Dao/Heaven/God.

 

Once you submit to "heavens mandate", in my experience, things just kind of rise and fall, and return to the source.  It's like watching a play being performed, with it's ups and downs, but you know its all just Lila (a divine play).

 

 

 

Faxin, I thought you were Buddhist because the name, JK, let me start with your response from J H McDonald translation before I get to the chapter now or later and compare it with another translation. It seems that DDJ chapters 14, 15 and 16 are connected. Here below Derek Lin translation:

 

Attain the ultimate emptiness
Hold on to the truest tranquility
The myriad things are all active
I therefore watch their return

Everything flourishes; each returns to its root
Returning to the root is called tranquility
Tranquility is called returning to one's nature
Returning to one's nature is called constancy
Knowing constancy is called clarity

 

Interpretation

Reach for a state of ultimate emptiness. Maintain a state of the utmost stillness and tranquility.

All living things rise up in lively activity. I watch them and observe their return in the endless natural process of life.

Everything is thriving and flourishing, and eventually everything will return to its origin in the recurrent cycles of nature.

Returning to the point of origin leads to a state of peaceful and serene tranquility.
This tranquility and quietude leads to a return to one's true nature.

The return to one's true self and fulfillment of one's true nature, is a constant, unchanging principle.

Understanding this constant, unchanging principle leads to clarity, illumination and enlightenment.

Those who do not understand the principle of constancy tend to bring upon themselves problems and disasters in a chaotic way.

 

Let's see after the comparison, if your thoughts are the same regarding the message you understand. As for your question Did you choose to come here? It is my understanding that my parents or the man and woman made me so there is no choice, it was the willing or the accident by two person one woman and one man. We are here not by choice.

[Fa Xin]

30 minutes ago, Mig said:

 

Faxin, I thought you were Buddhist because the name, JK, let me start with your response from J H McDonald translation before I get to the chapter now or later and compare it with another translation. It seems that DDJ chapters 14, 15 and 16 are connected. Here below Derek Lin translation:

 

Attain the ultimate emptiness
Hold on to the truest tranquility
The myriad things are all active
I therefore watch their return

Everything flourishes; each returns to its root
Returning to the root is called tranquility
Tranquility is called returning to one's nature
Returning to one's nature is called constancy
Knowing constancy is called clarity

 

Interpretation

Reach for a state of ultimate emptiness. Maintain a state of the utmost stillness and tranquility.

All living things rise up in lively activity. I watch them and observe their return in the endless natural process of life.

Everything is thriving and flourishing, and eventually everything will return to its origin in the recurrent cycles of nature.

Returning to the point of origin leads to a state of peaceful and serene tranquility.
This tranquility and quietude leads to a return to one's true nature.

The return to one's true self and fulfillment of one's true nature, is a constant, unchanging principle.

Understanding this constant, unchanging principle leads to clarity, illumination and enlightenment.

Those who do not understand the principle of constancy tend to bring upon themselves problems and disasters in a chaotic way.

 

Let's see after the comparison, if your thoughts are the same regarding the message you understand. As for your question Did you choose to come here? It is my understanding that my parents or the man and woman made me so there is no choice, it was the willing or the accident by two person one woman and one man. We are here not by choice.

Thanks for the message. Great stuff. Funny enough - the name Fa Xin was given to me by a Chan Buddhist order 😃 Good eye. 

 

I very much enjoy and agree with your translation of the text. I have a few questions, to clarify. 

 

The constantcy they speak of - by your interpretation - is the cycle of life? The inevitable cycle of life flourishing?

 

for me the key to this verse is “I therefor watch their return”. There is something important in this verse...

is he simply watching things grow and die? Or is there a deeper symbolism to the word “watch”?

also, how can we get to our true nature by observing things flourish and die?

Edited March 6, 2018 by Fa Xin

[Fa Xin]

Just for fun I did one too

 

Verse

Attain the ultimate emptiness
Hold on to the truest tranquility
The myriad things are all active
I therefore watch their return

Everything flourishes; each returns to its root
Returning to the root is called tranquility
Tranquility is called returning to one's nature
Returning to one's nature is called constancy
Knowing constancy is called clarity

 

Interpretation

All things are inherently empty

Be unattached to those things...

...even though they are active and lively.

I observe them disappear;

As Things flourish; things also perish

They perish and become free from clinging

Freedom is one's nature

Find freedom and you find constancy (The rising and falling of God)

Finding constancy, you see how things really are (Clarity)

 

Edit: I guess you can see the Buddhist influence on my interpretation

Edited March 7, 2018 by Fa Xin

[oranssi]

Talking about “simple” texts that can have profound unfoldings. My personal favorite is the very first chapter.

 

The Dao that can be stated, is not the eternal Dao;
The name that can be named, is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the origin of the heaven and earth;
The named is the mother of the myriad things.
So,
By constantly having no desire one views its wonders;
By constantly having desire, one views its limits.
These two have the same origin, but they differ in name;
Both are called Mystery.
One Mystery plus another Mystery, are the sources of all wonders.