After kids are now little adults and pay back arrears

[Mig]

For 14 years I tried to pay child support as per court order and the last year I lost everything, went to court for modification and had my child support reduced tremendously. Indeed, for 14 years I could have gone to court but I knew I had to pay more based on my salary. Not that I was making more money but just enough to live with financial debts. I had 18% of visitation time and by experience I know a judge will enforce me to pay whatever I owed at that time and have less visitation time. I never got more than 18% of visitation time and now that kids are little adults my ex comes back and demand $75K to pay her back. At the present time, I stopped working to find out a solution as according to the law, she can garnish my wages and will have to pay the debt. Legally is totally understandable. So now I am trying to figure out if I tell her: I give you $25 for the first year, $50 for the second and $75 for the third year and then we can come with an agreement for the total sum of the aforementioned debt. And I am trying to figure out how to give money to my kids for their college. Not that I feel obliged but just that I know they will get some money for their education. Now, still wondering what I have to do before I make a mistake. Thanks for reading.

[thelerner]

hmnn.. here's my shot in the dark- Start by complimenting her on what a good job that she's done with the kids, and that in the end they are what matters the most.  With that in mind, even though you're of limited means you want to do your best to help them now that they're of college age and you'd like to start giving to them directly.  Helping them out because they need to be your focus now. 

 

With some luck, maybe you can end the legal obligation and start making regular payments to the kids without the legal obligated sword over your head.  If you're so lucky, make the payments and/or doing what you can to stay on the positive side of your kids lives. 

 

 

[joeblast]

What do you mean by "tried to pay"....that's kind of a red flag right in the opening sentence.  That kinda sounds like you brought a check with you, got into an argument with her, and then didnt give her the check.....and that leaves her able to say "he didnt pay."

 

There isnt really a try in that situation, man...you either paid or you did not.  Even crumpling the check into a ball and spiking it in her face and giving her a profanity laden tirade....that's still having paid.  It sounds like you did not pay, and it doesnt sound like you have much of an excuse, at least right off the bat here.

 

 

 

I watched a good friend go nearly that close into debt because of child support, went to jail for it, when he got out he said he'd rather die than go back to jail, it was that horrible for him....and then when he still couldnt keep up with it after 8 months of working two jobs and basically giving almost all of it to his most eveil ex wife, one day I got a call from his girlfriend, he was swinging from a tree by the interstate.  I felt bad for G, but shit bro...there were so many times you needed to take action and protect yourself, you never treated it seriously, you just let that sum of money keep increasing, increasing, you never went to the lawyer when your company that paid you well did cutbacks and you lost your job...you just let that sum grow and grow, until it was a behemoth large enough that a judge was willing to throw the book at you....
 

once he was out of his house, I think he saw his kids twice, after that.   

 

I still miss you, brother.

 

TL....while that may work with a sane person...the no good terrible I wish it never happened story behind the spoiler....involves the only woman I've ever met that was MORE crazy than my son's mom.

 

My mom also worked in the court system, and family day was ALWAYS the WORST day of the week there.  Too many stories, almost all of them terrible, but not many as terrible as the spoilered one.

Edited March 2, 2018 by joeblast

[thelerner]

As a business owner I've seen the slippery downhill tragedy child payments can take.  I had guys lose 25% of there paychecks to mandatory court ordered payments taken directly out of there paychecks leaving them with little, then a 2nd court order comes taking away another 25%.  Bad stuff, that leads to the person quitting and woman getting nothing.  I'm sure from the womans perspective its an awful tragedy too. 

 

I can't help thinking if there was trust and honesty going on a better solution for all 3 parties (man, woman & kids) could be reached, but so often instead there is bitterness and vindictiveness, full of Pyrrhic victories.  

 

Few things are as expensive financially or emotionally as divorce and child payments  The world is full of cautionary tales of be careful where you dip you wick and who you make commitments to.  For me, so far so good, pretty damn good infact but luck undoubtedly plays a role.   

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by thelerner

[Mig]

1 hour ago, thelerner said:

hmnn.. here's my shot in the dark- Start by complimenting her on what a good job that she's done with the kids, and that in the end they are what matters the most.  With that in mind, even though you're of limited means you want to do your best to help them now that they're of college age and you'd like to start giving to them directly.  Helping them out because they need to be your focus now. 

 

With some luck, maybe you can end the legal obligation and start making regular payments to the kids without the legal obligated sword over your head.  If you're so lucky, make the payments and/or doing what you can to stay on the positive side of your kids lives. 

 

 

 

Thanks a bunch. I appreciate it. True, I could congratulate her but she knows that I don't mean it and on top of that, she hates me. There is hatred that won't go away even if she dies. She didn't want my kids be part of their lives only when it was convenient for her. I think I shared some of this in the past. Now, my kids are 18 and soon 20 and I am no longer part of their lives and that was already planted since 2015. If they contact me is when they need money. When I say no, then I don't hear from them. I send them texts and the one who was the closest to me, just ignores me. The oldest she's kind to respond occasionally. I think I will stick to my plans and reinforce the idea I will help my kids in college.

 

Thanks again

[thelerner]

I know.. even writing it I figured it was as likely helpful as 'buy a voodoo doll, poke it in spot X29.  That should do it.'

 

How does this saying from Churchill sound- 'When going through hell, keep going'

Edited March 2, 2018 by thelerner

[Mig]

3 hours ago, joeblast said:

What do you mean by "tried to pay"....that's kind of a red flag right in the opening sentence.  That kinda sounds like you brought a check with you, got into an argument with her, and then didnt give her the check.....and that leaves her able to say "he didnt pay."

 

There isnt really a try in that situation, man...you either paid or you did not.  Even crumpling the check into a ball and spiking it in her face and giving her a profanity laden tirade....that's still having paid.  It sounds like you did not pay, and it doesnt sound like you have much of an excuse, at least right off the bat here.

 

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I watched a good friend go nearly that close into debt because of child support, went to jail for it, when he got out he said he'd rather die than go back to jail, it was that horrible for him....and then when he still couldnt keep up with it after 8 months of working two jobs and basically giving almost all of it to his most eveil ex wife, one day I got a call from his girlfriend, he was swinging from a tree by the interstate.  I felt bad for G, but shit bro...there were so many times you needed to take action and protect yourself, you never treated it seriously, you just let that sum of money keep increasing, increasing, you never went to the lawyer when your company that paid you well did cutbacks and you lost your job...you just let that sum grow and grow, until it was a behemoth large enough that a judge was willing to throw the book at you....
 

once he was out of his house, I think he saw his kids twice, after that.   

 

I still miss you, brother.

 

TL....while that may work with a sane person...the no good terrible I wish it never happened story behind the spoiler....involves the only woman I've ever met that was MORE crazy than my son's mom.

 

My mom also worked in the court system, and family day was ALWAYS the WORST day of the week there.  Too many stories, almost all of them terrible, but not many as terrible as the spoilered one.

 

Thanks Joeblast, it is good to have your perspective. Just to make it clear, I made the mistake (didn't have money to hire a lawyer after termination by force) to represent myself and my ex was belligerent that I shouldn't had any overnight with my kids. Long story short, I tried to get a decent job and all i got was small jobs $2K a month and the judge ordered to pay $1K since then all I did to pay what I could at least $600 and kept asking for overnight which I got Friday night till Sunday 6pm every other week-end. After 3 years, still struggling to get a job and paying $600 a month I was still $400 short. My ex was an executive (making near 6 figures) and few years later she got a boyfriend who live with them since 2007. By the time I get a new better paid job, I gave $750 and still short and lived under debt to pay kids extra curriculum activities every year for at least 7 years. I couldn't go to court because I couldn't afford a lawyer, instead I chose to trying spending time with one my kids in her soccer team. I was working 12 hours a day at that time and was lucky I could leave work at 3 and return at 7 to work overtime. That's how it was. No complains just relating what happened. Not into pity or what if I could, would, should, none of that. I can say even if she's a bitch, she could have made it worse and my only exit could and can be is to leave the country and make a new life somewhere else. I also understand my ex is enraged because she couldn't nail me as she could, my mistake was to believe that people would do some effort for the benefit of our kids. Again, I realized, too late, people can understand the hard way and me as a participant have to learn how act as a rat, mouse to find my way out. Good luck is nice but not the solution of my situation. I think I will stick with the idea of negotiating for a lesser amount and helping my kids for school. We will see. I thank you for your response, clear, to the point and something to make me think and respond. Thanks again.

[Mig]

This exchange has helped me and sincerely appreciate those genuine feedback. The lesson I learned that most of our interactions are subjective and the poor you or pay because the law says it is not the way to find a solution for your own peace or to remain calm. This is not a hocus pocus scene, it is a situation far common after divorce. I have even seen a guy who didn't want to pay child support and for at least two years kept going to court to modify child support and the judge would allow him to keep coming back. He was making over 6 figures and kept spending his monies until there was restraining order and garnishments. There is no one solution, each of us has our solutions and we make what we want of those solutions. Again, thanks for the feedback.

[dawei]

I had something similar... whereby my ex and I agreed to behind the scenes payments after the court order... then years later she came after me to pay all the court order amount... Sometimes you find out more about your ex when apart then together.  I think you have few options that include:

1. Get a good lawyer and pay them or just pay your ex

2. It will end at some point, child support... see it out.

 

Given her income, it doesn't seem to really make sense, so why #1.

 

good luck. 

[Aetherous]

I have zero sympathy for the type of women who do this, and should have probably been a family court judge because of that.

Fathers are important, and to remove them from their children's lives and pit those kids against him is what ruins our society.

Child support payments are beyond a reasonable amount, and I've seen too many women get pregnant from multiple guys just so they could live off of those payments.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Aetherous

[joeblast]

13 hours ago, Mig said:

 

Thanks Joeblast, it is good to have your perspective. Just to make it clear, I made the mistake (didn't have money to hire a lawyer after termination by force) to represent myself and my ex was belligerent that I shouldn't had any overnight with my kids. Long story short, I tried to get a decent job and all i got was small jobs $2K a month and the judge ordered to pay $1K since then all I did to pay what I could at least $600 and kept asking for overnight which I got Friday night till Sunday 6pm every other week-end. After 3 years, still struggling to get a job and paying $600 a month I was still $400 short. My ex was an executive (making near 6 figures) and few years later she got a boyfriend who live with them since 2007. By the time I get a new better paid job, I gave $750 and still short and lived under debt to pay kids extra curriculum activities every year for at least 7 years. I couldn't go to court because I couldn't afford a lawyer, instead I chose to trying spending time with one my kids in her soccer team. I was working 12 hours a day at that time and was lucky I could leave work at 3 and return at 7 to work overtime. That's how it was. No complains just relating what happened. Not into pity or what if I could, would, should, none of that. I can say even if she's a bitch, she could have made it worse and my only exit could and can be is to leave the country and make a new life somewhere else. I also understand my ex is enraged because she couldn't nail me as she could, my mistake was to believe that people would do some effort for the benefit of our kids. Again, I realized, too late, people can understand the hard way and me as a participant have to learn how act as a rat, mouse to find my way out. Good luck is nice but not the solution of my situation. I think I will stick with the idea of negotiating for a lesser amount and helping my kids for school. We will see. I thank you for your response, clear, to the point and something to make me think and respond. Thanks again.

Same sorta happened with my buddy, where he didnt get a lawyer because he couldnt afford it.  But there are lawyers out there who will work with you on such things, because they know damned well how deep this hole can get for people.

 

So at this stage, your ex, these are just words between you two, she hasnt done anything formal about it yet?

 

I think your best course of action would be to get back in front of a judge on this one - plead your case that you gave what you could, and have your payment history documented and in front of you when you get there!  If you hit pretty much all of your payments, even if they were a little short, it at least shows the judge that you were not a deadbeat, you paid what you could, while your ex was plenty well off even without your money.  

 

I dont see how any reasonable judge would not reduce the amount - and here's where payment history factors in rather significantly, even if those payments were short a bit.

 

 

Its not really a mistake to represent oneself in these bastard maritime admiralty law courts with the gold fringed war flags in the corner, where a poor dad is subjected to the laws of the seas - its just that one who represents himself necessarily has a LOT of homework to do, and it still doesnt preclude getting blindsided by some garbage you might have missed in your prep, because numerous laws make for numerous arbitrary tyrannies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didnt even get into my own fiasco in that realm - but my situation saw things be uncommonly lenient for me, and I think I paid child support all of about twice before my son was living with me.  (You know mumz has to screw up pretty badly for that to happen.)

[Mig]

Hey Joeblast,

You hit it on the nail. I almost fell on the guilt mode and your reflection made me think and rethink, what the hell I am thinking. The law is the law and the circumstances I lived I didn't create them, those were the only choices I had, work hard and get less money. I did the best I could for my kids and was there for them 24/7 but could only see them 18%. Furthermore she hates me. Oh yeah, I also heard, you probably did something wrong for her to be scorned. Whatever, all I remember is to keep quiet not to alter my kids life and start all the power struggle. Many times I didn't like feel hopeless and powerless, I acknowledge there was nothing I could do. Now, I have to be a diplomat for some future money negotiation. Anyways, I feel better now after sharing this unpleasant episode and try my best to practice detachment (all the illusion of words and money). Now, it is time for me to learn more about the DDJ and see what I can use to my daily practice. Again, thanks so much, your input helped me tremendously and enjoy this journey (one way ticket, so better enjoy it now).

 

Thanks

[joeblast]

There's few more satisfying things than to help another out

 

Good luck man!

[Mig]

Thanks a bunch, our duty is to help others not to fall in the mud and better watch the crystalline water and enjoy the ride. It is amazing how humans can repeat the same mistake with minor variations over and over.