DDC Chapter 6: 谷神不死是谓玄牝。

[Stosh]

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

 

Frankly this "chapter" -40- is not any kind of self contained explanation , its more like a summary statement. One can impose the meaning on this from comprehension of the larger Taoist message. I see that some translators settled on leaving the word ' weakness' as such, but that for some it has the connotation of 'loss though death'. From these it isn't really important to divine one of these as more correct than the other they are both simplified in the act of translation. 

A)

Considering 'weakness' in a non-moral context, , that it is not a trait implying failure, and the same for death as not a 'failure to continue'... it can be described as a non-insistence of the continuation of a particular character... as in 'failure to yield a right-of-way results in a traffic citation' is not suggesting that yielding is undesirable. 

B.)

As a thing is refined , to a purpose, from a non-specific origin ,,, like a sword might be made from an iron blob , the many other potentials of the iron drop away . The fullest "potential" is in its blob state , and AS it becomes less and less ANY of those items  ,,

it becomes the item we call a sword.  Bonsai is another example , where one starts with huge potentials and over time the plant is developed to represent an aged tree. 

c) 

it is a normal or conventional mindset to consider the dulled or rusty sword as being not as good as the sharpened version , and that the sharp version , is the fullest expression of the iron blob , but the destiny according to dao is that the sword returns from whence it came , it gets dulled , rusty falls apart and so forth, until it is completely not a sword anymore.

It returns to its full potential of resource , when it is no longer any developed item at all. 

 

SO, the chapter is merely stating that the way of the world is for things to return to the situation of greatest potential , its greatest entropy . Lowest common denominator and so forth. 

Simultaneously or conversely , with this entropy -trend ,  it requires more and more effort to exert an influence , to be special , to excel , to get yet older.

Its a Situation of Diminishing returns , and unending rebirth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by Stosh

[Eric Woon]

4 hours ago, Stosh said:

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

 

Frankly this "chapter" -40- is not any kind of self contained explanation , its more like a summary statement. One can impose the meaning on this from comprehension of the larger Taoist message. I see that some translators settled on leaving the word ' weakness' as such, but that for some it has the connotation of 'loss though death'. From these it isn't really important to divine one of these as more correct than the other they are both simplified in the act of translation. 

A)

Considering 'weakness' in a non-moral context, , that it is not a trait implying failure, and the same for death as not a 'failure to continue'... it can be described as a non-insistence of the continuation of a particular character... as in 'failure to yield a right-of-way results in a traffic citation' is not suggesting that yielding is undesirable. 

B.)

As a thing is refined , to a purpose, from a non-specific origin ,,, like a sword might be made from an iron blob , the many other potentials of the iron drop away . The fullest "potential" is in its blob state , and AS it becomes less and less ANY of those items  ,,

it becomes the item we call a sword.  Bonsai is another example , where one starts with huge potentials and over time the plant is developed to represent an aged tree. 

c) 

it is a normal or conventional mindset to consider the dulled or rusty sword as being not as good as the sharpened version , and that the sharp version , is the fullest expression of the iron blob , but the destiny according to dao is that the sword returns from whence it came , it gets dulled , rusty falls apart and so forth, until it is completely not a sword anymore.

It returns to its full potential of resource , when it is no longer any developed item at all. 

 

SO, the chapter is merely stating that the way of the world is for things to return to the situation of greatest potential , its greatest entropy . Lowest common denominator and so forth. 

Simultaneously or conversely , with this entropy -trend ,  it requires more and more effort to exert an influence , to be special , to excel , to get yet older.

Its a Situation of Diminishing returns , and unending rebirth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What are you talking about? In the Confucianism group, I wrote this comment, Rubbish. And they kick me out. This is sort of how a Taoist (practitioner of daojiao), from a religious point of view would have interpreted Chapter 40.  

I just posted my interpretation of Chapter 40 under topic 道家学说。

Edited March 24, 2018 by Eric Woon
Added a line.

[Stosh]

You set me a task, and thats how I went about it.The behavior of others is no excuse of yours ,you get the full credit. If you wanted your own opinion ,you should have just kept it.  I regret taking my time to relate to you any of the meaning, since you appear to want to rummage around the text of a fairytale to be chinese. 

[Eric Woon]

7 hours ago, Stosh said:

You set me a task, and thats how I went about it.The behavior of others is no excuse of yours ,you get the full credit. If you wanted your own opinion ,you should have just kept it.  I regret taking my time to relate to you any of the meaning, since you appear to want to rummage around the text of a fairytale to be chinese. 

I am sorry. 

[Limahong]

On 3/23/2018 at 9:47 AM, dawei said:

What folks do today doesn't imply that is what they did in 300 BC

 

Hi dawei,

 

I am just reacting to your statement and not to this thread in context. I do not understand Chinese text.

 

My questions re your statement are - 

(a) Does Nature lives forward?

(b) As a mere mortal, I am part of Nature; are you?

 

Beyond your statement, I will not be able to orientate in the larger context  of this thread.

 

- LimA

Edited March 26, 2018 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[Marblehead]

Life is linear.  All living things are born, in one form or another, they live and then they die.  It just doesn't work any other way - it's the Way of Dao.

 

[Limahong]

12 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

All living things are born, in one form or another, they live and then they die.  It just doesn't work any other way - it's the Way of Dao.

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

 

- LimA

[Limahong]

6 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Life... - it's the Way of Dao.

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

 

- LimA

Edited March 26, 2018 by Limahong

[Limahong]

9 hours ago, Marblehead said:

All living things are born, in one form or another, they live and then they die.

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

Life and death -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- LimA

[Marblehead]

I'm trying to live forever.  So far I'm doing pretty good.

 

[Limahong]

Just now, Marblehead said:

I'm trying to live forever.  So far I'm doing pretty good.

 

But of course - as a piece of well polished marble.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- LimA

[Nintendao]

I always thought 谷神 as a spirit in a valley, but now also i see the spirit with a mind expansive as the valley, a womb of infinite possibilities swirling in the mists.

[Limahong]

22 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

I always thought 谷神 as a spirit in a valley, but now also i see the spirit with a mind expansive as the valley, a womb of infinite possibilities swirling in the mists.

 

Hi Nintendao,

 

I tried to follow the context of this thread, but I cannot as I am poor at reading Chinese text.

 

I am a third generation oversea Chinese now searching for his roots.

 

Your above words in green have poetically stirred something in my belly. Thank you.

 

- LimA

 

 

 

 

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, Nintendao said:

spirit in a valley

 

Hi Nintendo,

 

Now you have me thinking of the spirit in a valley -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- LimA

Edited March 27, 2018 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[Limahong]

On 3/26/2018 at 4:01 AM, Stosh said:

... the text of a fairytale to be chinese.

 

Hi Stosh,

 

Fairytales -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- LimA

[Limahong]

On 3/18/2018 at 4:46 AM, dawei said:

Maybe replace the divisions with something other than gender as gender doesn't always work on an energy/light level.

 

Hi dawei,

 

Gender divides unequally? To each his and her own?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- LimA

[Marblehead]

All I can say is that if you are female and call yourself male you are still female.

 

And I'm saddened to inform you that male and female are not equal.  In fact, they are opposite poles.

 

If you have white skin and call your self black you are still white.  Opposite poles.

 

This is not saying that one is better than the other, it is simply saying that they are different.

 

The female produces the egg, the male fertilizes the egg.  That's the way nature is.  To think otherwise is to be against nature.

 

The spirit of the valley is feminine.  It is Yin - the place for rest.

 

 

[Limahong]

35 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

The spirit of the valley is feminine. 

 

Hi Dada-da,

 

 

 

- LimA

Edited March 29, 2018 by Limahong

[Marblehead]

I think maybe we have a common understanding.

 

[Eric Woon]

4 hours ago, Marblehead said:

All I can say is that if you are female and call yourself male you are still female.

 

And I'm saddened to inform you that male and female are not equal.  In fact, they are opposite poles.

 

If you have white skin and call your self black you are still white.  Opposite poles.

 

This is not saying that one is better than the other, it is simply saying that they are different.

 

The female produces the egg, the male fertilizes the egg.  That's the way nature is.  To think otherwise is to be against nature.

 

The spirit of the valley is feminine.  It is Yin - the place for rest.

 

 

In the Chinese language, it does not really differentiate between male and female. For example, the word 她 is a very recent addition to replace 他. This is the result of the influence of the English language, perhaps. Btw, in any piece of works that was created during the Qing dynasty (1911) or earlier, did not make use of 她 which the author refers to a lady.   

[Marblehead]

Yes, I have been made aware of the fact that the Chinese language is, in the most part, gender neutral.  But Yin and Yang seem to apply the poles of feminine/masculine where it is missing in the language itself.

 

 

[Limahong]

12 hours ago, Marblehead said:

I think maybe we have a common understanding.

 

WISHING YOU & ONE & ALL:

 

HAPPY EASTER!

 

 

- LimA

[Limahong]

On 3/27/2018 at 11:14 AM, Nintendao said:

A mind expansive as the valley.

 

Hi Nintendao, 

 

From the Valley -

 

 

Listen with your heart.

 

- LimA

[Limahong]

9 hours ago, Eric Woon said:

她 is a very recent addition to replace 他.

 

Hi Eric,

 

她 and 他 calling from the Valley:

 

 

Is the above a celebration of yin-yang as a continuum?

 

Yin <=> yang = 她 <=> 他 ?

 

No replacement?

 

- LimA

[Eric Woon]

9 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Yes, I have been made aware of the fact that the Chinese language is, in the most part, gender neutral.  But Yin and Yang seem to apply the poles of feminine/masculine where it is missing in the language itself.

 

 

Perhaps, it is out of respect for the other party to be gender neutral. But when there is a need to explain the Yin and Yang,  say, in traditional Chinese medicine, the Chinese doctors use it on every patient. Sort of easy to tell something nice to hear for the patients who don't understand why they are sick.